ben1233

I've been wanting to post this story for quite some time now, but never got around to it.

It was the last week of December 2004 and I had the entire week off work. The closest Acura dealer to where I live is rougly an hour and a half away, and after my parents purchased an '01 TL in 2000, I was sort of turned off from that dealer. (The sales manager tried telling me that the Japanese-spec Type R was the USs' type-S - bull roar!) After being lied to, I vowed never to visit that dealer again.

The next logical choice was to explore Chicago. After calling around to every Acura dealer in greater Chicago, I found that a 6-spd was tough to find in stock. McGrath Acura, near Oak Brook, IL had a white 6-spd in stock, so I headed to Chicago on a Tuesday afternoon. I took my best friend with me, Eric - who is 18, along with me. (I'm 22) He was off school with nothing much else to do, plus had never really been to Chicago so I was gonna show him the sights and sounds. Upon reaching the dealership I waited around about 10 minutes before someone greeted me. Mind you, this is a Tuesday afternoon, they weren't exactly moving cars out the door left and right. The first guy I talked to was OK...he tried talking me into the RSX. I told him that I was trying to decide between the RSX and TSX. He tried to sell me on some special financing and such, and soon hooked me up with a veteran salesman. This guy was pretty good, but he pressed me, asking if "I was going to buy today." Now my dad never makes that type of decision on the same day...he always sleeps on it. That's exactly what I told my salesman...that I would at least need to sleep on it. Then he gave me the riot act how "the 2.9 financing would only last until Dec. 31" and such. I stuck with what I said...there's no way I'm going to walk in and drop $28K just like that-its not going to be that easy for them to make that kind of cash. So this guy pawned me off to some doofus in a $100 suit. After talking 5 minutes with this winner, I asked to drive one...

IT WAS 45 MINUTES BEFORE I GOT IN THE CAR! 45 minutes? My parents have purchased both an '01 and '04 TL, and each time it took about 10 minutes to get hooked up w/ a test drive. I was bordering on irate. I was so mad, I was about ready to get loud in the show room. If I'm spending 28 large, I expect SERVICE. And the excuses that they gave were classic: "we're getting the VIN..." "oh now were getting the model number"...."no now we need a second copy of your driver's license since the first one didn't turn out." BULL. I finally made it out to a white 6-spd. I told my friend to hop in the front seat and the dealer cut him off. "Oh I need to sit in the front seat." What kind of crap is that? Once again, in past test drives with my parents, the dealer gets in the back. Sorry, no one treats my best friend that way - but he got in the back seat anyway.

On the test drive I was extremely impressed with the smoothness of the car. Power was great...a little lacking down low, but still really cool. The dealer told me about the bluetooth functionality....Hmmmm..wait, I *AM* driving a TSX, correct? I said, "um, the TSX doesn't have bluetooth." The dealer pressed on so I said "well that must be an addition for 2005." The test drive continued and I asked a question about the Navi. The salesman couldn't figure it out so I started playing around w/ the screen. He told me "just concentrate on driving." WTF? I then took the car around a corkscrew and that made his knuckles white. I was barely at the limits of the car. Then I told him I was from Iowa. And this is where it gets good. He starts making fun of Iowa for being "home to corn fed women" and continuing on saying "its not home to a professional sports team" and the best one "full of farmland and straight roads."

After a very brief and unexciting test drive, back at the dealership, the guy finally started talking price. They basically wanted sticker and they weren't budging a cent off sticker. Nothing, zero, nada, zip. Whatever. I explained that my dad got $1500 off a 2004 TL only 2 weeks after they were introduced in fall 2003. I explained how the TL, at the time, was a hot car also. That didn't help my case. He still wasn't going to come down. I continued saying that I wanted the bodykit, and maybe he could "deal with me on that." So he craps a piece of paper, tears it off his 3X5 steno pad, with the frillies still on it, and scribbles down the price of the car + the front lip + side skirts + rear apron. He stuggles to find MSRP of the body kid. He ended up giving me like about $100 off the bodykit altogether. What a bunch of crap. I've driven 3 hours for this treatment?

I asked him how long he's worked at the dealership...he tells me only 2 weeks...he's actually an "unemployed computer programmer." Then, in my moment of Clint Eastwood glory I say, "oh thats funny, I'm actually a programmer at John Deere, and the corn fields are paying quite well these days." I left promptly, after telling him that I was going to eat lunch at one of the most expensive restaurants in the city....and that's exactly where we went for lunch, just in spite.

So 3 hours wasted, but at least I got to spend some time with a good friend who I don't see near enough.

The whole experience turned me off from Acura all together. So guess what, I'm a proud owner of a 330Ci that is a couple of years old. Yeah, it has some miles on the odo, but it drives like the new TSX did with a whole bunch more power. Every single one of my friends has said "Ben, you made the right decision...."

Don't get me wrong, I loved the TSX but man, I love my 330Ci sport (5-spd)

AlterZgo

So the moral of the story is - ALWAYS tell the dealer you are ready to buy right now if you are presented w/ the right deal.

This will significantly increase your chance of getting prompt and immediate service rather than being pawned off to some other disinterested salesperson.

iNteGraz92

every single one of your friends said you made the right decision? i dunno about that, maybe they didn't want to piss you off. a bad dealer experience turning you off to an entire brand is ridiculous. you should have went somewhere else. also, hope you have a good warranty on the 330.

drkangel348

My girlfriend has a 3 series BMW and she has only had it for 2 years (2003 325i) and shes already experiencing reliability issues... NOW she wants a red TSX for her next car after driving my car so much and seeing that I have absolutely no problems with my car.

stogie1020

One time, McDonalds forgot to give me fries with my happy meal, so now I am NEVER eating burgers again!!!

Eeyore

I'm tired of hearing stories about people who get completely turned off about a car or a brand because the dealer didn't kiss their feet. Buying a car is a lot like going to buy a TV or a dishwasher. Granted a car costs more, but its the same in that there are salespeople, and some will be good and some will be crap. If you want the car, go to another dealer or just find a way to work with the one you went to. My dealer wasn't the best, but I wanted a TSX, so I went in, bought the car, and got the hell out.

Congrats on the BMW. What type of warranty did you get and do you mind me asking how much you paid? A 330 is a very different car from the TSX in many ways. More car perhaps, but a lot less value.

CobaltForge

I try to limit my McDonald's to once, maybe twice a month after seeing "Supersize Me"

And Ben1233, I agree that you got sh*tty service at that Acura dealership, especially after driving that far. Some car salesmen are jerks, but there are some good ones out there as well. It's unfortunate that you didn't buy a TSX, but it's good to hear that you liked your choice.

Bass Mechanic

you know what i would have done? i would have gone to another dealer, bought the car i wanted then drove it to chicago and stopped in to show the sales people who pissed you off that had they treated you with a little more respect it would have been their sale.

tnl_tsx

A year ago, my bro and i went to Radley Acura in NOVA to buy a 04 TL and since he doesn't speak english well enough so we talked to a Vietnamese guy. My bro juz came home from work and he was in his work clothes (car painter). The salesman looked him up and down and didn't think he would buy it or have enough money to get it.
So we went to this other salesman and we dealt with him. we bought the 04 Tl and it snowed the same day. the nxt day his car got hit by someone else and he wanted to trade in for a new one and he did. BY now we bought 2 cars from the salesman. two months later i bought my tsx from him too. we ended up buying three cars from him. This is what he get for bad service.

Xtremespeed2102

i do hafta agree with you dealerships have thier ups n down. you do hafta remmeber that this is an acura dealership, you arent walking into a honda lot where they are desperite to sell the car. most acura sell themselves, the dealerships down here DONT advertise, and i DIDNT pay extra for advertising fee becuase of that.

you make it seem like you want to be treated like a king, they dont care about you until they know theyre making a sale, your what 22? how do they know you just arent pulling thier leg to test drive a new car. you crash that car, they need somehow of holding you responsible.

now about the whole fact about getting money off the car, why would u even try taking the approach of oh they did this last time... thats the worst way possible to do it! now about stupid employees, if your good at the bargain game theyre the best to have, you tell them exactly what you want. you want to test drive and figure out what YOU want... then talk numbers.. and only after you talk numbers do you decide if your going to buy the car.... keep him in limbo dont give him a reason to treat you second rate...
i think this was a great learning expirence for you...

ben1233

Well I really appreciate all your comments - good and bad. I used to own an integra, so you're still all family to me.

A lot of you said that "one bad dealer shouldn't turn you off from the entire brand." That's a fair point and all, but I've been to about 4 different Acura dealers in my area and haven't been impressed with any of them. And it might turn around and bite them some day. Remember in the mid 90's when Acura couldn't make a car to save their soul? Well, they're on a roll now but things can change pretty easily. Not saying it will happen, but it certainly could.

I admit at the dealership, I didn't assert myself like "if the deal is good I'll buy today." Mainly because they had 4 white 5-spds and they were trying to push one of those off on me. I'm *guessing* that they weren't about to do a dealer trade either. Also, yes, I'm 22 but there were a couple of visual ques that were pretty obvious that I meant business. I guess maybe salespeople aren't as keen as I think they are.

I paid $26,000 for a 2002 330Ci, 45K miles. One owner - it was a lease. It has the sport and cold weather packages, moonroof and Harmon Kardon. I think I got a decent deal on it. Love the power of course....I completely understand that the 330 and TSX are in different classes. No doubt about it. And yes, I understand that this car new is 40K which is insane - not a lot of value. My warranty is good for the remainder of the factory warranty (about 2.5 years or 15K miles), then I get a 2 yr / 40K mile extension after that. I think that's a good warranty, and I feel comfortable with it...I tend to trade up every 3/4 years. We really have a fantastic BMW dealer here in town too.

Just so you know, I love your guys' TSX. I wanted one real bad, but wow, the experience was disgusting.

05_TSX_GP

really?!? Acura was in trouble in mid 90's??? Were they making cars like what Hyundai is infamous for?

Either way, dealerships are dealers, they are not the car manufacturers. One goes there to buy cars, not ass-kissing from dealers. Dealers having some sales people with an attitude are not uncommon, but that does not turn a great car to a bad one.

You said 4 Acura dealers in your area all failed to impress you. I'd like to point out that one obvious common factor in all 4 cases is you. So everything being equal, the simplest reason would probably be that you somehow bring the worst out of the salespeople?? Remember, salespeople are there to make a living, if customers (or potential customers) go in and try to deal with them with respect, there's no reason that they would not be willing to deal with you and make a sales.

I do believe you used the wrong strategy in trying to deal with them. From the tone of your writing, I think it's safe assume that you probably stroll into dealerships like you are a big-shot 22 year old in the "IT" industry, thinking to spend $28K on a car and expecting salespeople to be and bend backward for you.

I agree with Xtremespeed2102 that you can take this as a great learning expirence for you, if you would pay attention to learn from it.

Anyway, good luck with you bimmer... does sound like you got good warranty coverage for it. Hope you get to enjoy it more than loaners.

joerockt

If you went to 4 different dealers and you had a problem with each one, its not the dealers, its you.

Xtremespeed2102

x2

its definately not the dealers, and yes the BMW dealers will kiss your feet, they dont care what they hafta do to get the cars out.... and remember the 3 series isnt anything near the flagship car. theoritically the TL is much like a decked out 5 and a TSX is much like a decked out 3 or low end 5. so in reason im saying you were bidding on a TL much higher in the ranks, and yes a brand new TSX, higher than a used 3.

i think honestly, that you shouldnt really give up on the dealership, i think u should try a different approach next time....

and i hope by no means you take this offensively, i sure dont mean to be offensive about any of this

joerockt

Good points Xtreme. I think there are other ways to buy a car without even stepping into a dealer. In fact, if you know for sure what car you want, its best just to call the dealer and ask for the fleet manager. They can usually get you a good price and you wont have to deal with sales or sales managers.

Xtremespeed2102

heck when we bought my car, the salesman just basically ran to n from the main guy.... joe you said fleet manager?... well he just ran back n forth with prices. which inturn just basically made it easier for my dad to bargain better.

indydriver

Ben, you paid 26K for a car with 45,000 miles on it? Wow. I don't see how that can be considered better than a brand new TSX for about the same money. Your whole problem with dealers is that they don't take you seriously as a buyer. Not only are you young, but you go shopping with your 18 year old friend. No wonder the dealers blew you off. Next time go by yourself, plan multiple trips to prove your interest and seriousness, let them run a credit check on you and ACT like you're serious in a grown-up world.

observer

I was about to post the exact same reply but saw this, so ditto.

BonzoAPD

That dealership sounds pretty bad but that can happen anywhere really. You should have gotten online quotes first. I did that and had all the dealerships haggling and begging for my business. It is all in how you present yourself. If you go in to make a deal, they will deal. If they know you won't deal, they get disinterested fast.

Glad you like the BMW. I won't be turned off from Acura forever though because of that experience though.

feliz

I don't like dealing with car salesmen in general so when buying my last few cars I've made the purchase using a fax or computer and only deal with the fleet manager. It can be tougher when your young, I've noticed now that I'm older (64) they tend to take me a little more seriously. I would never let a salesman dictate what kind of car I purchase.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, age is irrelevant. It's all about presence. I am in my early 20s and when I go to a dealer, the salesman always take me seriously because I present myself as a serious buyer with serious interest. Doesn't matter (for the most part) what model I'm looking at, I can usually coax a test drive.

So it's all about how you present yourself. If you're smart, don't have an attitude, be interested, and don't have ridiculous expectations about how a dealer should treat you.

05_TSX_GP

I've highlighted, bolded and underlined the most important part IMO

AcuraGT-3

I have to disagree, age does matter to many salemen. Many still won't take a younger person serious, and your clothes can help/hurt you.

The key is to develop a relationship with a dealer and have some "insiders". This guy seemed to have that and got squatted on. So I can see why he left the brand.

Powered by Honda

Doesnt the 330Ci sport come with 6 speed manual????

Oh and offcourse you made the right decision. BMW 3er is one of the best cars ever made of all time, ever. Especially E46. The problem with the 3er is reliability! My buddy just spent a couple thousand repairing his 3er(2001).

Keep us updated on any reliablity problems. I'm very interested in the 3ers.

manavi

Ben, my advice to someone driving 3 hours to test drive a car: get on the phone and make an appointment. Otherwise, it looks like you're just a couple of kids out on a road trip.

joerockt

From what I've read, it seems to be more based on nationalty then anything else. Stereotypes are huge at dealerships.

05_TSX_GP

Do you mean from what you've read in this thread? Curious, nationality hasn't crossed my mind as the "cause" in reading this thread...

05_TSX_GP

they were on a road trip to the city of Chicago...

05_TSX_GP

He got the 2002, I think they didn't put in the 6MT until later than that...

I agree E46 is one of the best cars and I am very glad to have had to rid mine ('01) before warranty ran out

For evidence of their reliability problems, just browse around couple BMW-themed yahoo groups and see that their messages back and forth are problems here and there. They don't even have time to talk about putting mods on their cars...

ben1233

I guess I think I presented myself really well. In general, every where I go people guess I'm older than I am. But of course the dealer requires a drivers licesnse, so he knows exactly how old I am. I told him what I did for a living - so I guess that should be credit check enough. If he wanted to run one-that's his decision-go ahead! And I *did* call the day prior-to explaining my intentions to come look at one. I wasn't on a road trip looking to take "a boiler out for a shakedown. " (Kramer - The Dealership)

As far as the 4 dealerships that I've been to...they were with my 50 year old dad who buys TLs. I wasn't involved in the buying process. I was just a witness and I didn't like what I saw. My dad, however, was able to get decent deals each time - even though every experience left a sort of bad taste in his mouth.

And yeah, the 330 has a 5-spd. Since its an 02 it didn't get the extra gear. It certainly could use it though! I did a carfax on it before I bought it. Looks like it had been to the dealership twice for unscheduled maintenence. (Which my parents 04 TL has been in once in 15,000 miles, and they still can't seem to fix the memory seat.) And no, I won't exclude Acura's from my list forever. But the 3 will have to be bad in order to persuade me away.

manavi

What time was your appointment set for and were you reasonably on time? If you truly had an appointment for a test drive and they still took 45 minutes after your appointment time to get you into the car, that is totally unacceptable!

However, if you just talked to someone on the phone the day before and told them you would probably be there tomorrow some time to look at a TSX, I'm afraid that is not an appointment.

05_TSX_GP

[QUOTE=ben1233]As far as the 4 dealerships that I've been to...they were with my 50 year old dad who buys TLs. I wasn't involved in the buying process. I was just a witness and I didn't like what I saw. My dad, however, was able to get decent deals each time - even though every experience left a sort of bad taste in his mouth.
[QUOTE]
Maybe you could have learned from your dad to suck it up and just get the decent deal on the brand new car that you love so much....

joerockt

No, it wasnt from this thread. It was from reading this article from Edmunds:

Confessions of a Car Salesman

VERY long read, but very informative. At least with this guys sales dealings, salesmen were stereotyping certian races.

joerockt

Didnt like what you saw? Negotiation isnt suppost to be puppy dogs and ice cream. Your battling to get the best price same as the other party. Its hard to be coridial during this process.

Powered by Honda

You had a 3er and you went and got a TSX? Doesnt it feel weird going back to FWD?

05_TSX_GP

Good question, glad you brought it up

Short answer: nope, not at all when the FWD is the TSX... HONEST!

More details: I was so worked up for the E90 3er and prepping Mrs. 05_TSX_GP for the "investment".

We had two cars previously, the E46 3er (5MT) and the RSX (5AT) but sold the 3er in 2004 and kept the leased RSX which I became the primary driver of. It was WEIRD and kind of sad for that switch.

But with the TSX (which we shorted the lease on and "swapped" for), I am having even more fun than I was with the 3er!!! By the way, I saw several E90 in person being transported to a local autoshow (openning tomorrow). I have to say I am glad I didn't wait for the E90 --- they look pretty overstyled, look worse than they appear in pictures! Nonetheless, I will go check them out when they hit showroom and go for a test drive to prove TSX is the right choice

Powered by Honda

Oh no....

I dont think you should test drive an E90 it said to be better in everyway over e46....well except for style. You might be dissappointed. Style wise E46 330ci looks like the most beautiful car in this earth.

05_TSX_GP

Oh I didn't mean I'd expect to prove the TSX outperforming the E90. I am not

As I would have aimed for 330i (+ sports package kind of thing), I would definitely expect the E90 to outperform the TSX in acceleration by a big margin. However, the handling feel of the TSX is everything as good as what I had enjoyed in the E46 (325i + sports). I feel the TSX is even more fun than the E46 in carving up curves as it feels more nimble than the E46 I had. I don't think the E46 I had is that much heavier than the TSX but it does feel "heavier" to throw around corners. As E90 comes in bigger and (slightly?) heavier than the E46, I would expect that "less nimble" feeling to be even stronger on the E90. And that is what I expect to walk away from a E90 test drive with to prove to myself that TSX is the right choice I made.

This has everything to do with the fact that I am a driver more interested in the fun and connected feel in cornering than straightline pull (same reason TL wasn't for me). Also add the fact that by the time the E90 330i + sports + whatever package/options to make it comparablly equipped as the TSX, I'll be looking at $10K to 15K (CAD) more on the price than the TSX.

Part of that $10K to 15K "saved" will be used on modding the TSX (mild boost to performance, but not to level of E90), and other stuff that I dig for in general... gadgets, TV upgrade and what-not

bz268

I think you may want to check out the Saturn dealer. They treat people like kings and queens.