Lexus IS 2.5 vs TSX
03-21-2005, 06:37 PM
#1
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Lexus IS 2.5 vs TSX
Lots of chatter on Edmunds (probably here too) regarding the new Lexus IS. It is known that there will be a 2.5L 6 and a 3.5L six. Speculation puts the 2.5 at around 206 HP and somewhat more torque than the TSX (perhaps 180 or so). It is expected to come in around $29-32K base.
Of the hundreds of threads, only a few talk about the TSX, and most of that was derisive (snobby types, those Lexi types). Exterior is very similar to the TSX, except the crease on the side is located slightly differently. The guage console looks like the TSX with 2 big central ones. It standard equipment is better then the TSX for some stuff (10 airbags, brake force distribution), but in other ways is will be deficient (optional CD changer etc).
Will it steal sales from the TSX? I think it will really hurt the 3 series and put some dent in the TSX if it starts around 29K.
Of the hundreds of threads, only a few talk about the TSX, and most of that was derisive (snobby types, those Lexi types). Exterior is very similar to the TSX, except the crease on the side is located slightly differently. The guage console looks like the TSX with 2 big central ones. It standard equipment is better then the TSX for some stuff (10 airbags, brake force distribution), but in other ways is will be deficient (optional CD changer etc).
Will it steal sales from the TSX? I think it will really hurt the 3 series and put some dent in the TSX if it starts around 29K.
03-21-2005, 06:45 PM
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man, that engine in the RSX will have me trading my wife's CR-V in faster than you can imagine. That is a beautiful skin on that vehicle.
The IS looks great and they didn't screw with the guages this time. A few people compared the interior to the TSx and TL. Compliment for all.
The IS looks great and they didn't screw with the guages this time. A few people compared the interior to the TSx and TL. Compliment for all.
03-21-2005, 07:41 PM
#5
She said: it's GINORMOUS!
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Don't worry, the 250hp/250 lb ft turbo AWD TSX in 2007 will steal a few sales back. 
03-21-2005, 07:52 PM
#6
For all we know, Lexus may not even bring over the 2.5 version to US shores. The previous Lexus IS220 never made it here.
03-21-2005, 07:56 PM
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Price & RWD
From a price standpoint, I have a hard time believing that the IS will compete against the TSX. Instead, I suspect it's much closer to the TL/G35/A4/3-Series/C-Class.
Consequently, a big barrier for me would be the RWD configuration of the IS. Mind you, I'm fully aware of the performance/handling benefits of RWD, not to mention the advances in traction & stability control. But, at the end of the day, FWD or AWD will always outperform a RWD in slippery conditions. And for those of us who are stuck (no pun intended) in the snow belt, then this will be a major factor to consider!
Consequently, a big barrier for me would be the RWD configuration of the IS. Mind you, I'm fully aware of the performance/handling benefits of RWD, not to mention the advances in traction & stability control. But, at the end of the day, FWD or AWD will always outperform a RWD in slippery conditions. And for those of us who are stuck (no pun intended) in the snow belt, then this will be a major factor to consider!
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03-21-2005, 08:21 PM
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Size will be about the same, drive wheels obviously differ. They will announce at the NY auto show this week exactly what will debut this fall, but the 2.5 and the 3.5 seem to be shoo-ins. Some people also argue they need a 3L, but the only one they have is old.
I agree with bryhogan with the IS competitors, except only the Acura and Infiniti compare in quality.
I agree with bryhogan with the IS competitors, except only the Acura and Infiniti compare in quality.
03-21-2005, 08:34 PM
#9
Drifting
If the IS will be closer to the price of the TL/G35/A4/3-series (I won't mention the C Class here because it is not as competitive at this point), then what is the attraction of the IS? It does not look as good as any of the other cars mentioned here, and there does not seem to be any really special feature that makes it stand out from the rest of them.
If I were a snob, I would get a BMW 3 series any time over the Lexus IS - the new 3 series is way better looking, more distinctive (unlike Lexus which has to reinvent itself every 6 years for each model due to a severe lack of corporate and styling identity) and has far more brand name recognition.
If I were a snob, I would get a BMW 3 series any time over the Lexus IS - the new 3 series is way better looking, more distinctive (unlike Lexus which has to reinvent itself every 6 years for each model due to a severe lack of corporate and styling identity) and has far more brand name recognition.
03-21-2005, 11:26 PM
#10
Bye TSX, hello domestic?
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Originally Posted by bryhogan
From a price standpoint, I have a hard time believing that the IS will compete against the TSX. Instead, I suspect it's much closer to the TL/G35/A4/3-Series/C-Class.
03-22-2005, 02:48 AM
#11
Race Director
Originally Posted by phile
For all we know, Lexus may not even bring over the 2.5 version to US shores. The previous Lexus IS220 never made it here.
Just wait one more day and most of the speculating will be over.
03-22-2005, 09:28 AM
#12
I'm the Firestarter
The IS is more expensive so right there is a differenciation factor. Personally I would either get a TSX or save more money and get the IS300/350.
03-23-2005, 08:55 AM
#13
Senior Moderator
Biker is reporting in the other thread that the price for the 250 RWD MT is 26,585 or 27,585. Thats smack down in TSX territiry and the standard access list is equal to or better than in the TSX.
03-23-2005, 08:58 AM
#14
Originally Posted by domn
Biker is reporting in the other thread that the price for the 250 RWD MT is 26,585 or 27,585. Thats smack down in TSX territiry and the standard access list is equal to or better than in the TSX.
03-23-2005, 09:02 AM
#15
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Biker
One set of figures leaked:
IS250 RWD Manual: $26,585
IS250 RWD Auto: $27,955
IS250 AWD Auto: $29,905
IS350 RWD: $40,475 ("TRANSMISSION CHOICES ARE NOT SET IN STONE YET. THE IS350 WILL SELL ONLY FULLY LOADED.")
Std features:
Smart Access
Optitron Instrument Cluster
Power Tilt/Telescopic Wheel
Audio, Bluetooth, Voice Activation and Display Controls on Steering Wheel
10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger
Wood and Metal trim interior
Dual Zone Auto Climate Control
Mini Plug accessory Connector
Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills
AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system
Options:
Ventilated Seats
Touch Screen-Voice Activated Nav
Mark Levinson
Adaptive Cruise Control
Park Assist
Rain sensing Wipers with Headlamp washers
Power rear sunshade
IS250 RWD Manual: $26,585
IS250 RWD Auto: $27,955
IS250 AWD Auto: $29,905
IS350 RWD: $40,475 ("TRANSMISSION CHOICES ARE NOT SET IN STONE YET. THE IS350 WILL SELL ONLY FULLY LOADED.")
Std features:
Smart Access
Optitron Instrument Cluster
Power Tilt/Telescopic Wheel
Audio, Bluetooth, Voice Activation and Display Controls on Steering Wheel
10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger
Wood and Metal trim interior
Dual Zone Auto Climate Control
Mini Plug accessory Connector
Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills
AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system
Options:
Ventilated Seats
Touch Screen-Voice Activated Nav
Mark Levinson
Adaptive Cruise Control
Park Assist
Rain sensing Wipers with Headlamp washers
Power rear sunshade
I guess we'll see CG. But those std access' look like what most people will want/need.
03-23-2005, 09:05 AM
#16
Originally Posted by domn
I guess we'll see CG. But those std access' look like what most people will want/need.
03-23-2005, 09:11 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Oh, I agree, but Lexus dealers probably won't be able to make as much money off the un-optioned models and so they'll want to stock and sell optioned models, as has been their strategy so far. Regardless, when this car becomes available, I'm gonna go take a look at one and see if I like it. Might be worth considering if it really is as good as people are making it sound.
I'm lovin it so far
But it will probly start at $40K CAD so I can forget it.
03-23-2005, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Don't worry, the 250hp/250 lb ft turbo AWD TSX in 2007 will steal a few sales back.
Is that really going to happen? I haven't seen anything on it but I'd love to get one if it did
03-23-2005, 11:49 AM
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Watch Car maker battle is very much like watching YU-GI-OH! LOL! Lexusboy plays card of new redesign IS350 2006 and Acuraboy returns with improved SHAWD TL 2006! It will never end!
It will never end!
03-23-2005, 12:01 PM
#20
My Garage
Originally Posted by BonzoAPD
Is that really going to happen? I haven't seen anything on it but I'd love to get one if it did
IMO it's highly unlikely, if that happened goodbye TL...Unless of course a TL type S comes out with sh-awd and 300+ horsepower. Then goodbye RL. A much improved RL would be neccesary. Prices of Acura would shoot up.
Would be nice though
03-23-2005, 12:44 PM
#21
Photography Nerd
Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
IMO it's highly unlikely, if that happened goodbye TL...Unless of course a TL type S comes out with sh-awd and 300+ horsepower. Then goodbye RL. A much improved RL would be neccesary. Prices of Acura would shoot up.
Would be nice though
Would be nice though
I think it can and will likely be done for the same reason an M3 doesn't take sales away from a 5 series.
03-23-2005, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bananaairsoft
Watch Car maker battle is very much like watching YU-GI-OH! LOL! Lexusboy plays card of new redesign IS350 2006 and Acuraboy returns with improved SHAWD TL 2006! It will never end!
It will never end!
Very funny!
03-23-2005, 01:17 PM
#23
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by magneto112
Here is the official Press Release.
Lexus Introduces Next Generation IS Luxury Sport Sedan With Two New Engines and All-Wheel Drive - - Source: The Car Connection
03/23/2005 New York
Lexus unveiled the all-new 2006 IS 350 luxury sport sedan today at a press conference at the New York Auto Show.
"We're taking dead aim at the top of the class with the new IS," said Lexus Marketing Vice President Mark Templin. "We plan to offer a compelling range of models and options with class-leading perfo rmance and luxury."
Four separate models will form the basis of the new IS family in the US market, featuring two completely new V6 engines and both rear and all-wheel drive. The new IS 250 and IS 250 AWD will feature a 2.5-liter engine rated at more than 200 horsepower. The top-line IS 350 will be powered by a potent 3.5-liter V6 engine which will develop more than 300 horsepower.
Two new transmissions will facilitate power delivery to the wheels. Standard in the IS 250, a new 6-speed sequential manual transmission is designed to take full advantage of its free-revving V6 engine. A new sequential-shift 6-speed automatic will also be offered in the IS 250 and will be standard in the IS 350 and IS 250 AWD. Steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters for the automatic are designed to provide maximum involvement and control for driving enthusiasts.
All new front and rear suspension, steering and brake systems will unite with standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) in the IS 250 while the IS 350 receives Lexus' new Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system to provide superior dynamics and control, while continuing the IS legacy of driving fun. The new suspension design optimizes dynamic wheel alignment to help provide precise, confident handling and maximum tire grip.
With its styling clearly influenced by Lexus recent LF-series of concept cars, the new IS shows a strong family resemblance with its stable mate, the 2006 GS, while capturing its own distinctively sporty, yet upscale essence. A notably wide stance and long wheelbase coupled with tightly-drawn bodywork lends a muscular and sophisticated style.
The new look continues inside, where a roomy, luxurious yet sporty cabin is complemented by intelligently designed displays and controls designed to make driving both simple and pleasurable. Bright, clear Optitron gauges and smartly integrated metallic and available maple trim help create a luxurious, yet no-nonsense ambience.
A comprehensive list of safety, comfort and luxury features seldom found in its class will be offered in the newest IS family. For example, Smart Access keyless entry with push-button start will be standard, and features such as a power tilt/telescoping steering wheel and navigation system with back-up camera will be available.
These and other features available on the new IS, such as the Adaptive Front headlamp System (AFS), Dynamic Radar Cruise Control and ventilated front seats are normally found only in more expensive luxury cars.
New V6 Engines - Powerful and Socially Responsible
A newly-designed fuel injection system and dual VVT-i will help the new 3.5-liter V6 engine achieve more than 300 horsepower, resulting in zero-to-60 mph acceleration in less than six seconds. With an estimated combined city/highway fuel economy in the high twenties, the IS 350's fuel efficiency is similar to the EPA average for compact cars with 2.0-liter four-cylinder engines.
The IS 250 will carry a 2.5-liter version of the same advanced V6 engine with over 200 hp and more than 180 lb.-ft. of torque. Coupled with a standard 6-speed sequential manual transmission, acceleration from 0-60 miles per hour will be in the high 7-second range. Estimated combined fuel economy ratings are also expected to be in the high-twenties.
With all the new IS models, low-friction engine design and carefully matched drivetrains also make significant contributions to fuel efficiency. And all of the new IS models are expected to carry the ULEV-II emissions rating.
Power + Control = Driving Pleasure
Recently introduced on the new GS 430 (and the soon-to-be-released RX 400h), Lexus' Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management system will also augment the inherently excellent dynamics of the new IS 350. In this iteration, VDIM will be programmed to allow drivers to probe deeper into the limits of handling before discreetly, but effectively applying braking, throttle and steering control. This approach is designed to maximize driving fun without giving away control to the elements.
An important contributor to performance, fuel economy and stability lies in the new IS' aerodynamic package. Low exterior drag is enhanced with careful attention to underbody airflow management designed to minimize and balance front/rear lift. The low drag body makes best use of engine power and the low lift enhances high-speed stability and handling balance.
The new Lexus IS luxury sport sedans will go on sale in North America this fall. Prices will be announced near the on-sale date.
Although I havn't driven this car yet I must admit I think I like it alot more than the TSX
Test drive is in order.
Something that makes me
though. A 3.5L V6 that will make more HP than any other 3.5L on the market, yet a 2.5L V6 that is IMO very underpowered. They should be getting a min of 220\220 out of a 2.5 V6 
Here is the official Press Release.
Lexus Introduces Next Generation IS Luxury Sport Sedan With Two New Engines and All-Wheel Drive - - Source: The Car Connection
03/23/2005 New York
Lexus unveiled the all-new 2006 IS 350 luxury sport sedan today at a press conference at the New York Auto Show.
"We're taking dead aim at the top of the class with the new IS," said Lexus Marketing Vice President Mark Templin. "We plan to offer a compelling range of models and options with class-leading perfo rmance and luxury."
Four separate models will form the basis of the new IS family in the US market, featuring two completely new V6 engines and both rear and all-wheel drive. The new IS 250 and IS 250 AWD will feature a 2.5-liter engine rated at more than 200 horsepower. The top-line IS 350 will be powered by a potent 3.5-liter V6 engine which will develop more than 300 horsepower.
Two new transmissions will facilitate power delivery to the wheels. Standard in the IS 250, a new 6-speed sequential manual transmission is designed to take full advantage of its free-revving V6 engine. A new sequential-shift 6-speed automatic will also be offered in the IS 250 and will be standard in the IS 350 and IS 250 AWD. Steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters for the automatic are designed to provide maximum involvement and control for driving enthusiasts.
All new front and rear suspension, steering and brake systems will unite with standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) in the IS 250 while the IS 350 receives Lexus' new Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system to provide superior dynamics and control, while continuing the IS legacy of driving fun. The new suspension design optimizes dynamic wheel alignment to help provide precise, confident handling and maximum tire grip.
With its styling clearly influenced by Lexus recent LF-series of concept cars, the new IS shows a strong family resemblance with its stable mate, the 2006 GS, while capturing its own distinctively sporty, yet upscale essence. A notably wide stance and long wheelbase coupled with tightly-drawn bodywork lends a muscular and sophisticated style.
The new look continues inside, where a roomy, luxurious yet sporty cabin is complemented by intelligently designed displays and controls designed to make driving both simple and pleasurable. Bright, clear Optitron gauges and smartly integrated metallic and available maple trim help create a luxurious, yet no-nonsense ambience.
A comprehensive list of safety, comfort and luxury features seldom found in its class will be offered in the newest IS family. For example, Smart Access keyless entry with push-button start will be standard, and features such as a power tilt/telescoping steering wheel and navigation system with back-up camera will be available.
These and other features available on the new IS, such as the Adaptive Front headlamp System (AFS), Dynamic Radar Cruise Control and ventilated front seats are normally found only in more expensive luxury cars.
New V6 Engines - Powerful and Socially Responsible
A newly-designed fuel injection system and dual VVT-i will help the new 3.5-liter V6 engine achieve more than 300 horsepower, resulting in zero-to-60 mph acceleration in less than six seconds. With an estimated combined city/highway fuel economy in the high twenties, the IS 350's fuel efficiency is similar to the EPA average for compact cars with 2.0-liter four-cylinder engines.
The IS 250 will carry a 2.5-liter version of the same advanced V6 engine with over 200 hp and more than 180 lb.-ft. of torque. Coupled with a standard 6-speed sequential manual transmission, acceleration from 0-60 miles per hour will be in the high 7-second range. Estimated combined fuel economy ratings are also expected to be in the high-twenties.
With all the new IS models, low-friction engine design and carefully matched drivetrains also make significant contributions to fuel efficiency. And all of the new IS models are expected to carry the ULEV-II emissions rating.
Power + Control = Driving Pleasure
Recently introduced on the new GS 430 (and the soon-to-be-released RX 400h), Lexus' Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management system will also augment the inherently excellent dynamics of the new IS 350. In this iteration, VDIM will be programmed to allow drivers to probe deeper into the limits of handling before discreetly, but effectively applying braking, throttle and steering control. This approach is designed to maximize driving fun without giving away control to the elements.
An important contributor to performance, fuel economy and stability lies in the new IS' aerodynamic package. Low exterior drag is enhanced with careful attention to underbody airflow management designed to minimize and balance front/rear lift. The low drag body makes best use of engine power and the low lift enhances high-speed stability and handling balance.
The new Lexus IS luxury sport sedans will go on sale in North America this fall. Prices will be announced near the on-sale date.
Although I havn't driven this car yet I must admit I think I like it alot more than the TSX
Test drive is in order. Something that makes me
though. A 3.5L V6 that will make more HP than any other 3.5L on the market, yet a 2.5L V6 that is IMO very underpowered. They should be getting a min of 220\220 out of a 2.5 V6
03-23-2005, 01:35 PM
#25
My Garage
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I think it can and will likely be done for the same reason an M3 doesn't take sales away from a 5 series.
...How do you know the m3 doesn't take sales away from the 5 series? Why buy a 525 when you can buy a m3?
but if it doesn't its because the m3 is on a different performance level than any 5's (m5 exlcuded). 545's 0-60 is about 5.8, M3's is about 4.8
The gap between the M3 and 5 series is much bigger than the gap between a TL and a 250hp SH-AWD TSX
03-23-2005, 01:52 PM
#26
Photography Nerd
People buying a 535 aren't interested in an M3. They're totally different cars for different purposes. Why buy an S500 when an E55 is faster and cheaper? They just don't compete really. Some people value space and comfort over performance.
Anyhow, speculation is fun.
Anyhow, speculation is fun.
03-23-2005, 02:11 PM
#28
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The IS 250 will carry a 2.5-liter version of the same advanced V6 engine with over 200 hp and more than 180 lb.-ft. of torque. Coupled with a standard 6-speed sequential manual transmission....
...acceleration from 0-60 miles per hour will be in the high 7-second range....
I hope not...Edit: WTF happened to the :wtf: smiley?!
03-23-2005, 04:12 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by vwong
You talking about this 
? It's :wtfsick:.
? It's :wtfsick:. 
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Pedal...we don't need no stinking third pedal...
Originally Posted by jlukja
03-23-2005, 05:57 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Brennan
i think the car is nice but its hard to compare the 2 cars. The tsx in 2007 will blow away a lot of cars so they can have there fun right now.
What info does anyone have on the 07 TSX
03-23-2005, 05:57 PM
#36
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Judging by the interior photos... the TSX still wins in ergonomics. The dash and gauges of the TSX look better too. The new IS does look like it will dethrone the 3 series though. But I bet a similar equipped IS250 wouldn't cost the same as a TSX w/ navi.
03-23-2005, 06:11 PM
#38
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by drkangel348
Judging by the interior photos... the TSX still wins in ergonomics. The dash and gauges of the TSX look better too. The new IS does look like it will dethrone the 3 series though. But I bet a similar equipped IS250 wouldn't cost the same as a TSX w/ navi.
The mistake I think Lexus made was not offering a MT on the 350 and having such a huge gap in power from the 200HP 250 to the 300+ HP 350. Makes no sense IMO especially considering they could easily thow the 3L 245HP motor from the GS in there
03-23-2005, 06:17 PM
#40
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by tuan209
i think its going to be around 220 HP for the 2.5, which isnt too bad.