timd38

I can afford to buy a BMW, but I can't afford to own it.

DAYTA

I'd agree with that wholeheartedly. I test drove a manual 335i about 1 1/2 months ago (when you could still find them on lots to test drive) and I wasn't overly impressed with the driving dynamics compared to my 06 TSX lowered on Tein SS.

I'm not saying the 335i drove poorly, far from it. I was just pleasantly surprised by how the TSX could match, and even exceed, BMW in the handling department.

frenchv

I used to own a 04 E46 (325ci) beautiful machine, impressive interior with great options.
The car drives awesome, sticks to the road and has excellent acceleration for only 187 ponies.
I enjoyed the car very much until the free 4 years/ 50k maintenance ended.

Now I'm driving my TSX a great economical car with all of the options. It's not the same as a BIMMER not beamer and wouldn't want to compare them since that I think both car are in different class.


Will I ever buy another BMW? Yes if I could afford it but I'd rather spend my money on a place and travelling.

MJB_CHI

Technically, its 184 ponies. But, really it is the torque that moves you, not so much the HP. That is a very short version of a much more complicated subject (HP vs. torque). As they say, "We TALK horsepower, but we DRIVE torque." That explains why so often people say "German ponies are stronger." The reality is that German cars typically have really good low-end torque which makes them feel punchier, even if their HP rating is lower.

Correct, MANY people screw this up:

Beamer = BMW MOTORCYCLE
Bimmer = BMW CAR


You guys quibbling about BMW vs. Acura is silly. BMWs offer things that are important to some people, Acuras offer things that are important to other people. It really boils down to that. Buy what you like and enjoy. I own neither of the brands, but can see that they are both appealing brands for different reasons.

CarbonGray Earl

...and this argument always seems to ignore gearing as a factor. That's why I never buy into the argument that torque OR horsepower is what its all about.

In reality, BMW isn't really known for low-end torque, right off of idle. In fact they are pretty weak....they are known for a meaty and broad midrange. Every BMW i've driven has had this characteristic.

davidspalding

Yeesh. I craved a Volvo V70 for a year or two. I finally lost my desire when I drove each of the 3 engine trims. The high power turbo was great. Comfort, marvelous. Dash design, idiotic (a drink holder right by the audio?). The downfall? The second seat headrest completely blocked the right-rear quarter window, and the reduced visibility bothered me in all three test drives. I felt blind back there.

Not a non sequitur. My point is, there is often something about some car that either drives you bonkers, or drives you mad with lust. It's a very personal thing. You can talk about torque, HP, gearing, comfort, status, trunk space, reliability, cost vs. value, appeal to the opposite sex, or ease of access to child safety seats until the horses come back into the corral, but for all of us, there's a very individualistic je ne sais quoi that is the tipping point. Those who havent' found that, IMHO, haven't driven or owned enough cars.

Overtaxed

Warped rotors at an early stage are apparently a problem with the previous generation (before 08) US Accords as well.

As you may know, the E46 wiki states that Bimmers are not as reliable as japanese makes (in general of course). They say, you will have problems with your Bimmer. But still, there are other reasons for choosing a car, and the 3-series reliability is still rated as "average" (by Consumer Reports), so it's not terrible or anything (again, in general)

If you're not satisfied with the reliability and/or service of your Acura, I can understand looking at other brands/cars.

Overtaxed

Also, BMW recommended oil changes are something like every 25,000 or 30,000 km (not sure exact conversion into miles, but 60 miles = 100 km), so that's not going to cost BMW much!

Many Bimmer enthusiasts change their oil much more frequently. (so they pay out of pocket.)

pcannoy

Just noticed TheDukeZip's fine taste in watches as well as automobiles. Your pic inspired me to finally join the forum! I thought I was looking at my car and wrist!

waTSX

I appreciate your point of view and that you dig your TSX; so do I. But no way BMW is just living off of their past. They are the gold standard for sport sedans, and they continue to raise the bar in terms of handling and overall performance. Are they as good a value as the TSX? Nope, but when it comes to pure driving satisfaction, the 3 series has the clear advantage over the TSX. The TSX is a great performer and a lot of fun to drive, but it's limited by its own layout. Nothing can change that.

waTSX

Exactly. The rest of the sport sedan market has moved on, and the TSX has yet to. It will, but what we get remains to be seen. The E90's, love 'em or hate 'em, are sweet.

JKV808TSX

I miss my TSX honestly ..and someday I wish to own one again.. IMO, you cannot compare Japanese with German engineering.... its just 2 different worlds.. Owning a bimmer now for over a year, I gotta say.. it is more classy and powerful, the handling and over-all performance is just awesome .. and yeah..the 4-yr maintenance warranty is worth it.

infantry

The platform of the TSX I wouldnt call outdated, the genuis behind the TSX is that you could mod it pretty cheap and get peformance on par with Sedans that cost 10,000 more . I am now the owner of BMW again and agree the car is nice, just not what I paid for it . To get the peformance out of the ultimate driving machine you got to drive it on the edge and I rarley go that route . Maybe I am being a homer .

bradykp

there was a TSB in april about the front discs warping, so they probably should have covered that for you under warranty. As for the "B" service, I would say you're just a sucker for doing it at the Acura dealership. I refuse to get these items done at the dealership, because there is no need to. Don't you know a mechanic? Or, take it to Honda, which is cheaper for labor than Acura is.

The air filters, i'm replacing myself. The pollen filter I am getting through Napa, as i found on this forum, and the air filter, i'm looking for a reusable one (you just remove them and clean them, my dad has one on his BMW).

I don't think you're paying BMW maintenance, if you owned a BMW, you'd know what I mean. Free maintenance is nice, but you're paying for it in the price of the car for sure. And if you keep it beyond that period, you're gonna get slammed. There's no comparison in value between Acura and BMW.

bradykp

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21633

bradykp

well said

nj2pa2nc

the acura dealer i take my tsx for service rates are cheaper than honda so check first. i never ask for mileage service just an oil change and tire rotation- cheaper that way. but then again my good friend is an acura service manager so i get good deals on service.

Soccer_playa1579

well i was considering either the 1999 bmw 528 or the 1999 mercedes c class or the 2000 tl/nav for b-day..... i really loved the 99 528 and the interior was very nice as well asthe options but evry friend said it would be dumass move if i got the merc or bmw becuz of mainctanence and i read from million forums of unreliability... so i was like screw that nd get the tl....

bradykp

there is no reason why you can't compare acura and bmw. but you are correct, both offer things that are important to different people.

it's my opinion that value should be a major component in a car, since cars are money pits. that's why i choose tsx over a bmw. i get almost as many "features" as the bmw, for significantly less price. and better quality.

i would love to have a bmw under warranty, so as not to have to worry about the problems they have. they are great driving machines. that's what it comes down to. if you can deal with trips to the service department and/or can afford to own it outside of warranty and not care about the money you're spending, the BMW is the better car. most people on these forums are looking for value in their vehicles also though.

bradykp

where do you go for your service?

acura labor rates are more than honda, maybe you're just getting a good deal from your buddy?

bradykp

bmw has built up a lot of brand equity that they are using to get them through a particularly rough patch in my opinion. do they still make good handling and good performing vehicles? of course. but are they worth the price? no way. you can get similar handling and performance for much less, and better quality

TheDukeZip

Haha thanks and welcome to the forum! Check out this thread for a bigger picture.

nj2pa2nc

lehigh valley acura in emmaus pa. the hourly rate there is $85.00 an hour and at their honda dealer (lehigh valley honda) the rate is $86.00 an hour. my buddy told me that most honda dealers were less but not there and he did not know why. he was a service advisor at honda until he was made the acura service manager 1 1/2 years ago.

Overtaxed

I love my Acura and chose it over a BMW, but I don't really agree with you that Acura has significantly better quality. Unless you are equating quality with reliability. Then I agree.

The driving dynamics component of the 3-series has a lot of quality. And you can get a lot of interior/exterior quality if you pay the price $$$ (but you have to pay the price)

SWOBERT

First let me say that I have owned 2 different BMW's in the past (a 325 and a 535) and I really liked them, so I don't have anything against BMW's. However, when I compared the TSX to the 3 series, it wasn't even close. Other than the $5K or more TSX price advantage, the current 3 series interior ergonomics are the worst I have seen in a European car in a long time. Interior faults include the goofy turn signal, cruise control (which should be on the steering wheel not an additional column stalk) power window switches that are out of reach, the stupid ignition switch /engine start button, awkward clutch take up, imprecise manual shifter, improper armrest to shifter height, and yes, cupholders that were a complete joke. And don't get me started on I drive.

People who fantisize about taking their car on a race track (and never do) and car magazines that actually take the cars on the track will rave about the 10/10ths handling and the advantages of 3 series rear wheel drive over TSX front wheel drive. However, those 99 percent of us who are either stuck in traffic or are driving down miles of straight interstate will never know the difference. My advice is that if you really need to spend that much more money on car to impress the neighbors or make you feel good about yourself, buy a TL or G35.

waTSX

Nice Seamaster, dude. I own one myself and love that thing. Sorry for the temporary Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

waTSX

Nobody is talking about any car with sporting intentions in this scenario. This is an enthusiast forum and when you talk about cars from an enthusiasts point of view, you talk about performance at or near the limits.

By your criteria, we all may as well drive a Kia. It's as good as anything else when stuck in traffic. You're making a lot of assumptions about people needing to impress the neighbors. You raised some good points in the first part of your post, but the second paragraph is ridiculous.

wackura

Why has this particular apples and oranges comparison drug on so long? The $5000+ aspect puts BMWs in a different class afaik. I bet if a TANK could crush a TSX or a BMW in a head to head.

micvog

I traded an '05 TL in on my new '06 TSX (ended up being a straight-up trade). The TL is not a car for driving enthusiasts. It is a fine vehicle for auto enthusiasts, but there is a difference.

micvog

Thanks for the heads up. I am going to look into that.

Maybe. I am probably older than most on this board and there is definitely a cost to my time. Saving time and convenience are big factors for me. I also push my car hard and expect excellent performance so I don't want to cut corners by skipping factory-recommended items (I have no problem skipping dealer-recommended service).

I shopped the 3-Series against the TSX (I was leasing in both cases). More than the money I saved by going with the TSX has been eaten up in maintenance costs. Assuming I wouldn't have needed new tires on the 3-Series, a 3-year 15k/year lease on the 3-Series would have been less expensive than my TSX. I am paying more than BMW maintenance, and in this situation, arguing that Acura is a better value falls on deaf ears.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TSX. I talked a neighbor into the TSX over a Camry. I just don't think that means BMW has to be bad.

FrazTL-S

werd^^^^

I just got that Seamaster in black for graduation....

frenchv

Totally agree with you on this!

Yeah the interior of the e90 kinda sucks but a BMW is still a BMW! I havn't driven too many luxury cars besides my e46 but I tell ya it drives awesome and it's a beautiful car. Plus it never gave me any trouble


I miss it but not missing spending $$ on gas.

davidspalding

Possibly because, among reasons, the TSX is compared with certain Bimmers. When I was shopping, I read several reviews that compared the Acuras with BMWs. Consumer Reports (11/04)(subscription required) compared the TL and TSX with the 330i (as well as the Legacy GT, Audi A4, and Volvo S40). They also compare it with the Saab 9-3 in their "sporty cars" ratings. Edmunds' first drive of the 2004 compared it with the BMW 325i. They continued this comparison in their full test drive, including Mercedes' C-Class in the target market. A year later, they compared it with another German car, the VW Jetta GLI.

Next question?

wackura

The VW GLI is a perfect comparison. The cost about the same after adding all the options. Too bad the thread isn't about VWs. If any car review compares a $28,500 car to a $38,000+ car, then the purpose is probably to observe why the cheaper car is cheaper, without any silly expectation that the laws of ecomonics have been defied and put them on an even plane.

davidspalding

(Thanks for not taking that personally. The question deserved to be asked.) IIRC they were saying the GLI with all options stripped off, came to about the same price,... hence a fair comparison. As with the reviews comparing to BMW 3-series rides, most reviews of the TSX I read came down to, "comparable (not same) performance, nothing left out, nice fit & finish, and all for less money,..." and they usually don't add the added "feature" that Acuras are highly reliable, so TCO is significantly lower over 5 < x < 10 years ownership. Granted, I recall the GLI and the 3-series edged out the TSX in "fun-to-drive" or "true sports car" factors, but again, with trade-offs (which many here have given voice to).

Strictly IMHO, TCO and reliability are as important to me as resale value. I don't care if I turn heads with my badge, I'm happy if I can make the occasional jaw drop. ("WTF is under that hood?!") (My next speeding ticket will no doubt be when I pour 20mph on top of my cruise speed to put some buffoon behind me, which I've been doing 1nce or 2wice a week.) I have to concur with someone's "chick magnet" comment, all the women who've been in my TSX (both of them,... okay THREE if you count my 4 1/2 year old) have loved the interior.

wackura

I read a review that said the VTEC didn't kick in until 6,000 RPM so I was like wtf that leave 1000 RPM until redline, very little playing room, so I floored it in 4th on the freeway and then I got the picture. That's fun. It's amazing how the car remains so stable as it accelerates like that.

I actualy dislike the prospect of being associated with a BMW badge, because I've always known that to be a upper class brand, and I don't think fellow drivers would go "ooh, that guy's successful!", I assume they must be thinking, "that asshole probably fires people to get bonuses." I like that Acura is seen as a Honda with pizzazz, that's exactly what I want. A working class guy who splurged a little.

Overtaxed

In Canada, the residual value of BMWs is quite high, so that, for leasing, there is not much difference with the TSX, and it is even cheaper to lease than a lower-priced G35. However, if you want to buy the car or buy it out at the end of the lease, the BMW price difference will become more evident.

If this is the same in the States, this is perhaps the reason you don't see much of a "value difference" when leasing.

waTSX

Get a Hondata reflash and you drop that iV-Tec point to 5K rpm.

wackura

Ooooh! Can you tell the difference if the kick in occurs at 5K?

I wonder why it's set at 6 if it can be 5.

waTSX

Sure you can tell a difference, especially if you have a CAI, but like anything with the TSX it's a subtle change. It just gives you more "headroom" to play with and it's less likely for the revs to drop below the ivtec point during shifts. Definitely a worthy mod.