Irfo

With summer tires on a real slick fresh snow, 2nd just plain gets you moving faster. You can use it for less (or maybe better-controlled) spin, but you can also use it for more, to dig down to the pavement.

Speaking of snow, though, I have a question. I'm personally about to go to AT in my '06 after thirty years(!) of MT, and I've always lived in snowy climes so I enjoy my driving fun in the snow.

That fun mainly comes from the handbrake now, in the days of front-wheel drive (snow is where I miss good ol' RWD most), so let me ask this shockingly ignorant question:

Will I still be able to do handbrake turns with my AT, without killing the engine?

(Oh, and one more nice thing about MT is that it lets you f*** with tailgaters. Drop a gear and kind of pop the clutch, and you'll slow down hard on 'em without showing any taillights... just be ready to hit the gas even harder...)

billym7@gmail.com

this is one of the reasons i hate driving in massachusetts, truly america's worst drivers

theElio

Word... My TSX is my first manual and I had to drive into the San Francisco 1.5 weeks after I got it.... Yeah... I got stuck in rush hour traffic on Van Ness Ave (101) which is a pretty decent sloped hill for a . I was terrified and way stressed out, but after that, I got a lot more comfortable with it and am not afraid to drive into the city anymore. It's a few terrifying moments like that and then it's good as gold. Don't regret it a bit.
NYC is mostly flat. You'll deal with stop and go, but I can't imagine much more of a problem outside of regular crazy NYC drivers.

gdcwatt

IRFO - My Mazda Protege doesn't behave "normally" when left foot braking on snow; someone in a chatroom suggested it was the electronic brake force distribution cutting in. I'd think that, similarly, the VSA wouldn't like the handbrake helping to rotate the back end, and although I don't have a TSX - yet - I always marvel at those skinny 9mm-thick rear discs, and wonder how well they'll hold up, long-term.

On the other hand, it seemed to me that a lot of that annoying understeer had been engineered out of the TSX, compared to some other Honda's I've known. Or were you just talking about having some fun?

bradykp

i know it was stated, i guess i'm just disagreeing.

West6MT

This is the case. In very slippery situations starting off in 2nd can help a lot.

One time on a hill near my university a hill was really iced up/slippery,.......no one could make it up. My tires were slipping as I tried to get up in first gear even though I was trying to take it really easy and slow,.....so I dropped it down into second gear and feathered the car right up the hill with light throttle. Automatics were spinning their tires and sliding all over the place (could have been drivers were dumb I suppose and gunning it???). I had crappy ass all season tires on that SUCKED in the snow/ice, but still made it up when no one else could. One other guy made it to the top as well (guessing it was a manual, but not sure). We got to the top of the hill and stopped at the lights, looked over at each other and both started to laugh.

feliz

I laughed out loud the first time I saw the rear brakes on a TSX, my motorcycles have larger disks. However, they do seem to stop the car OK!!

ragged

LOL! I can't believe the amount of people "advising" the guy to go buy a brand new mt to learn from. Dude, listen, don't buy your car yet. Practice on someone else's car. Go take a few lessons. Rent a maual mt car. Anything before you buy your car.

LEARN, to drive mt BEFORE, buying a brand new car. Especially since you say it snows a lot and has hills where you live.

It's easy once you learn, buy what if he's trying it and wrecks, what then?

Mt is great once you learn, so learn first before buying your car.

Irfo

Fun only. 180s in a parking lot, or a nice 90 into the driveway at the end of a snowy day.

Now that I think of it, ATs may not like that kinda stuff... I've been driving stick so long I don't really know.

bradykp

whats wrong with learning on his own car? it's not like he should take it in the streets to learn. go to a parking lot, with someone who knows how to drive it, and learn, it'll take a couple hours out of your weekend (at the most), then you need the experience on the road.

most people i know learned by doing it with a car they owned. i didnt even know car rental agencies had MT rentals. plus, he's from queens, you know how much it costs to rent a car in NYC?

swirlie

Haha, excited. You just love posting that pic, don't you? How many times have you posted it in the last couple days?

excited

LOL Hopefully next week I will pics of something else, though I doubt that you will see the new TSX motoring through snow that deep!

Throughout the day I stay pretty calm waiting for the TSX to arrive, but when I get home and start seeing new pics of the new arrivals I start to get excited!

I promise that I won't post that pic again for at least two weeks!



Excited

acn684

haha excited, u got me confused...i keep thinking im reading the same threads over and over cause of that pic! lol

Situation - going back to queens for winter break approx 5 weeks long. After that going back up to college.

Problems in queens, no rental agency will let a 19 year old rent a car, also only one of my friends drive a manual...Theres practically zero drivers in nyc that drive manual.

My plan: Get my car when it comes in, so i don't have to pay for them to hold it at the dealership. Have my dad drive it back and park it in garage because he knows how to drive manual (this would be in a week or two). Take up a week to 2 weeks straight of manual lessons (Every other day to allow rest periods?) Get the basics down. Then try to take my car around the block a few times. Get comfortable with that, take it down a block over which allows me to get up to 40 mph easy (i'd say that should be enough for 3rd or 4th gear?). Hopefully it'll be soon enough that it becomes 2nd nature. Luckily, my sister has her car around so its not like I need to get around with the car.

BusyShifter

EVERYDAY. Just remember to drink plenty of fluid .

Sounds like a good plan. Once you past the first two gears, getting to 3 - 6th should be no problem at all.

BusyShifter

To bring your car to Itacha, I wonder should you consider investing in snow tires for winter.

ragged

Fine, but since it's no prob, would you allow someone to learn to drive mt on your BRAND NEW CAR?
If you would then fine, but I doubt it. And why not, because you wouldn't want them MAYBE burning up your clutch. So why would you want him to MAYBE do the same to his new car?

I wouldn't want to learn mt on my brand new car. I used an old bucket to eff around in till I got used to mt. I'm just suggesting he do the same on the off chance something gets messed up.

If he has no other options, then, he has no other option. That's all I'm saying.

jlukja

Learning to drive an MT is not that hard. If he's the least bit coordinated and understands what gears are and the what the purpose of a clutch is then he could get the hang of it with an hour or two of practice. He won't be an expert, and will have some trouble on hills or needing to parallel park but he certainly won't be burning the clutch for days on end. I learned to drive an MT on my brand new camaro. It took a drive from the dealership to home and then driving around the neighborhood for another hour. Its not that big of a deal.

bradykp

if he was a friend of mine and had no other options, i certainly would. see, learning stick isn't that hard. if he had a very difficult time, then i'd probably ask him to stop. but every person i've taught has learned 1 through 3 on flat ground in less than 2 hours.

my old car, i taught a girl how to drive it one afternoon, then two weeks later she borrowed it to drive to a college campus about 15 miles away. that was an old car so it's a bad example, but the point is, she had zero problems, other than normal incline issues. i'm pretty confident that if i taught him, he'd be fine.
would i let him just take my car? new or old....no.


Thank You for posting something that finally makes sense. They're scaring this kid outta getting a manual for no reason.

My only advice is to learn in a parking lot, rather than on the blocks around the house. It's less stressful when you don't have people pissed off at you because you're stalled in front of them.

if you needed, i'm in manhattan, live in hoboken, i'd be perfectly willing to help you. i went to lehigh and know it's tough on hills, but once you do it, hills and flat is virtually the same, since it's second nature.

if you give up at things quickly, don't get a stick. if you are patient, have half a brain (Which i think most Cornell students do), then you'll pick it up quickly.

GOOD LUCK!

acn684

haha im not scared, I'm pretty confident that I can learn it. But in 5 weeks?! <- thats the problem...

Like all of you said, would you learn in a new car - no. I wouldn't either. That is why I plann on garaging it for the 2-3 weeks that I llearn on a training car from the driving school. My friend has a civic but i'd rather not learn it from him...I keep telling him that if you change gears in higher rpms, you'd get a stronger acceleration. (i hope im right there) But he keeps telling me you HAVE to SHIFT at 3000...im like sure....

I've been reading up alot on it, and i think i know how the clutch and the gears work. Clutch is a wheel with friction right? Pushing on clutch causes the "wheel" to seperate from the engine disconnecting the engine with the wheels. Thats why you have to bring in the clutch gently and give it gas to match up with the speed. when they're matched, you can release the clutch fully which cause no rubbing cause now both wheels are spinning at the same rate. However, if the clutch is engaged and theres no gas applied, then the rpms drop, slowing down the car, risking a stall. Unlike automatics, releasing the acceleration slows down the car because the gear stays engaged?

I've been "practicing" manumatic with my logitech prowheel and GT4 if that helps anybit. Just getting used to the "shifting" aspect of it. But i guess a video game can only do so much.

I try to time when i'd shift in a automatic, thinking what gear i should be in a manual if i were driving a manual to practice timing. However i guess thats all relative too.

I also try Clutching with an imaginary pedal, not getting the exact feel of it, but getting down the feeling. RIght now, my impression is, you clutch down only when you want to change gears, or when coming to a complete or close to complete stop? I can drive like an auto if im in 5th gear on the highway with gas/brake to adjust speed?

The only concerns I have is how much damage I'd do to my car. THis is my first car, this is a black car. Bigger concern is keeping it top notch. I'd rather go auto if my car is going to be perserved longer. Yes i know, manuals last longer because of less moving parts. However, i don't want a scratch to come from the fact that i was parking...and missed slightly because i was getting nervous with the clutch.

West6MT

The howstuffworks.com website might be a good place to read up about how clutches work etc. The site does a pretty good job of explaining how things work and has animated pictures and diagrams. These two links can get you started if you want to do some more reading. This site will expain things better than I ever could.

How clutches work- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm
How manual transmissions work- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm


5 weeks to learn,.....thats lots of time. I think it was Excited that suggested learning on an incline. I would also recommend this method if you wanna learn manual quickly.

acn684

^^ been there done that! haha lol

acn684

im lucky in that sense i guess. my block has a flat on the top, and im on the incline, which is actually a very moderate hill. one block over, there is a sick hill...im talking about 45 degrees, hills where manual cars should never ever stop on. Autos have a hard time climbing it...

West6MT

LOL,.......I had a feeling you might say that.

swirlie

haha, GT4, nice!
If you have access to a wheel/pedals on a computer, try GT Legends. I tried the demo. It's a lot more involved and closer to a real simulation... including running into a wall and disabling the engine... You even have to start the engine properly to get out of the pits at the beginning of trials. There's also an option for controlling the clutch yourself. Very rare in games.
GT Legends
There are other online endurance racing sims that are serious sims... Don't remember the name of the one I found recently.


That's pretty much it. You can drive like an auto as long as you're in gear and you don't stray too far from your power band (when you should be shifting up or down). And you'll know when you've slowed down too much for that gear. The car will start to seriously lug/bog down and it'll start to shudder before stalling. At least, my old car would. Never tested it on the TSX.

All this theory is great.. but there's no substitute for experience. Just get out and drive. You'll fall in love with the manual.

EDIT: And your friend saying you HAVE to shift at 3000... He's crazy. Seriously seriously crazy. (Unless his car has a 3200redline or something...) I'm guessing he drives very conservatively.

bradykp

if you cant learn in 5 weeks time, you're hopeless. the driving course might be helpful, but i see it as highly unnecessary. to each his own

West6MT

You should be able to get the hang of it pretty quickly. Then its just getting good at it and being really smooth etc. 5 weeks is a LONG time.

Here is a quick example of how it was for me. I had tried to drive manual once or twice with my dad in the past,.....few years before actually learning how to drive. I am 23 and have only been driving for about 2.5yrs,.....which surprises everyone because I am a car fanatic,....but I took my time I guess. I learned to drive on my dads auto, passed all my tests etc. It was the summer and I was at univeristy (but not in classes at the time) and was getting rides to work with other ppl that worked at the place. Once I got my license, my dad came up with our older car, which was manual, to give it to me so I could get to work on my own. I drove around with him for an hour practicing. Then I drove an hour back home to drop him off, then back up to school on my own with the car. Thats all in one day. Later that night I went to a parking lot that had a bit of an incline. I practiced starting to move with the manual on the incline for a little bit till I got the hang of it. Start to move up the incline by letting out the clutch and pressing the gas,.....get to the top and put in the clutch,......roll back down,.....use the brake to stop (NOT the clutch and gas,...that will cause wear),.....then repeat. It helped get a feel for the clutch and how to start on hills etc. Then when the work week started I started driving to work. I wasnt the smoothest for a little bit,.....but with time you become really smooth and good at it etc. If you have 5 weeks to learn you should have no problem at all. Like brady said,.......if you cant learn it in 5 weeks,.......hopeless ahhaha. Dont worry so much. I took my room mate out one time and he was doing ok after like 15 minutes.

Yui

Questions on the finer points of driving a manual:

I'm at the point where I don't stall any more, only took a couple weeks to get there. My shifts are also fairly smooth. However, there is some notchiness sometimes, as if the shifter were hitting the gates as I row through them, especially 1-2. It seems fine for the most part on the other gears. In any case, I wanted to improve my technique so I took another look at this this video again tonight and realized I'm shifting very differently from him: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...06501945006362

He lets off the clutch really fast in one motion. What I've been doing is letting off the clutch out till just before the engagement point and then simultaneously giving it gas and finish letting off the clutch, a two part step. It's quite smooth and people have remarked that I'm driving standard pretty well, but is it the right way of doing it?

Also, going into 1st gear, the clutch doesn't seem to want to catch easily, and sometimes I end up giving it a little bit of throttle just to get the revs up and catch the clutch as the tach needle is falling...

Anyhow, I'm enjoying it alot, recommend it for people deciding between manual and auto, no regrets, just want to improve my technique.

psteng19

He's being a little over-dramatic (looks like he's putting in a lot of effort at shifting and stomping on the clutch pretty hard), but that's the proper method.
The faster you let out the clutch, the less wear on it.

If you watch videos of other drivers on a track, you'll notice they shift fast and hard as well, although not as forceful and aggressive as this dude.

I don't let the clutch out quite that fast during normal driving... only when I have to accelerate hard.

From what you describe, it sounds like you're riding the clutch. Just practice and you'll get the hang of shifting faster and more naturally.

HoRRo

From what I've read/heard, it appears that the general consensus is that if you are shifting smoothly by feathering/riding/easing the clutch, then you will soon burn out your clutch, than a person that does not.

jpt

What you feel is the synchronizers slowing the "middle part" of the transmission down to idle speed. This is perfectly normal, but if you want to get really fancy you can double-clutch every shift (that is, put the clutch pedal in, move the shifter out of gear, release the clutch, push the clutch in again, shift into gear, release the clutch) and you will notice that shifting effort is reduced or eliminated, because the engine will be doing the synchronizing instead of the synchros. There's never any need to do this while upshifting in a modern car though.

When you aren't starting the car, you can release the clutch pretty quickly and have the shift be smooth if you shifted at the right speed. You can do it your way too though, don't worry too much about putting wear on the clutch. If the whole process is taking less than a couple seconds you aren't doing anything too wrong. You only want to avoid slipping the clutch for extended periods.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, but it is normal for the clutch to have to slip while you're starting. Don't watch the distractometer, uh, i mean tach -- you can and should be getting all the information you need from your left foot. Let the clutch up slowly until you feel some vibration in the pedal. That's when the clutch is partially engaged, so let off the brake and press the gas gently while you continue to let the clutch up slowly.

DLTSX6MT

Yes, but keep an eye on the keys. Unfortunately for his poor passengers, he's jerks that car around quite a bit.

jlukja

Ideally, the amount of time it takes for you to press in the clutch, shift, and then release the clutch should be the same as for the engine revs to naturally fall from the previous gear to the new gear.

swirlie

Faster shifting will come with time as you get more confident and practice.