How to Haggle?
07-31-2003, 10:15 AM
#1
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How to Haggle?
can we have a thread where people talk about how they get a good price on their cars? such as how to bargian, what to say, when to walk away etc.... I think it would be very beneficial.
07-31-2003, 10:23 AM
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Easy. Do your homework and decide what you are willing to pay. Get your finances in order so you know what you can afford. Then go into the dealership and make two things abundantly clear:
1) You are willing to sign RIGHT NOW if they meet your price.
2) You are willing to walk RIGHT NOW if they don't.
Of course, the tricky part is coming up with the number (what you're willing to pay) in the first place. The law of supply and demand will necessarily have an impact - you have to be reasonable - no dealer is going to sell you a car for invoice if there is a 2 month waiting list for that vehicle.
But the negotiating is really very simple once you make it clear who's in control.
Cheers,
Jaeger
Edited to add: Oh yeah - end of the month definitely improves your chances of having a "borderline" offer accepted by the delership.
1) You are willing to sign RIGHT NOW if they meet your price.
2) You are willing to walk RIGHT NOW if they don't.
Of course, the tricky part is coming up with the number (what you're willing to pay) in the first place. The law of supply and demand will necessarily have an impact - you have to be reasonable - no dealer is going to sell you a car for invoice if there is a 2 month waiting list for that vehicle.
But the negotiating is really very simple once you make it clear who's in control.
Cheers,
Jaeger
Edited to add: Oh yeah - end of the month definitely improves your chances of having a "borderline" offer accepted by the delership.
07-31-2003, 10:29 AM
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I think the key element to negotiating is know your stuff... research the prices on the internet ahead of time (invoice pricing, options pricing vs. retail pricing). Know what the dealer is paying for the car. In many cases, paying within $500 of the invoice price is not unheard of. With a car like the TSX, I think you would have to really be a top negotiator or fall into a great deal to get within that tight a range (I know people have, but I had no luck).
Make sure the salesperson you are dealing with is aware that you know the invoice price (what he paid for the car) and that you are not willing to pay MSRP. I was able to get one offer of $1000 off MSRP and one with $500 off MSRP from two different dealers from the TSX. Just by waiting for them to come down off of their offer. Dont jump the gun and take their "we only sell at MSRP" as 100% accurate. Just wait a few days and my feeling is they will contact you and lower a price or ask you to make a lower offer. If they ask you to make an offer, tell them you want to pay $250 over invoice or something and see what they say.
I'm no expert, but the above has worked well for me in buying my last three cars. Be confident, be informed, and be patient!
Make sure the salesperson you are dealing with is aware that you know the invoice price (what he paid for the car) and that you are not willing to pay MSRP. I was able to get one offer of $1000 off MSRP and one with $500 off MSRP from two different dealers from the TSX. Just by waiting for them to come down off of their offer. Dont jump the gun and take their "we only sell at MSRP" as 100% accurate. Just wait a few days and my feeling is they will contact you and lower a price or ask you to make a lower offer. If they ask you to make an offer, tell them you want to pay $250 over invoice or something and see what they say.
I'm no expert, but the above has worked well for me in buying my last three cars. Be confident, be informed, and be patient!
07-31-2003, 10:54 AM
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Re: How to Haggle?
Originally posted by donutchow
can we have a thread where people talk about how they get a good price on their cars? such as how to bargian, what to say, when to walk away etc.... I think it would be very beneficial.
can we have a thread where people talk about how they get a good price on their cars? such as how to bargian, what to say, when to walk away etc.... I think it would be very beneficial.
My suggestion would be to get quotes online before visiting any dealers. (Most Acura dealers in my area have Web sites with a Quick Quotes request.) That makes it easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. I also recommend that you request the quote responses via EMAIL to get it in print to prevent weaseling of the price!
- WHEAT: Those dealers who promptly reply with straight-forward and concise information, who do not tack on extras that you did not specify.
- BETTER GRADE WHEAT: Those who quote less than MSRP.
- CHAFF: Those dealers who do not reply, or who are slow to reply, or who tack on stuff and charges that you did not specify, or who do not give you the quote via email and want you to call them instead. Do not deal with these weaseling jerks. Let them find their own suckers. Avoid these scam dealers like the plague. It was their choice to not come clean and honor your simple specific request for a quote via email.
Of roughly ten or so Acura dealers I contacted, 2 quoted me below MSRP, 3 quoted me MSRP, and 2 were "chaffy", and 2 had disfunctional Web sites whose Quick Quotes failed to work.
With your best dealer quote in hand, visit an Acura dealer of your liking. In my case, it was the same dealer who offered me the best price with straight-forward pricing and no hidden charges.
ANOTHER SIGN OF WHEAT: Those salespeople who follow up from your online quote requests, even if you never visited them. That's a sign of attention to the customer. It's a sign they may want to deal.
When you have your dealer selected and pricing arranged, but before you put any money down, have the dealer print out a Deal Review Sheet that shows ___all___ charges and final out-the-door price. Examine it carefully. Typically you have your agreed upon price (which includes destination!!!!), plus doc fee (<$50), license, registration, gov't fee, and sales tax, as applicable. (There's no reason for a doc fee to be more than $50.)
WATCH OUT for dealer packing. It's a scam, bar none. These are under the guise of dealer association fees, advertising fees, hiked up doc fees, dealer preparation fees, etc. These are NOT legally required fees!!!! It's a scam by which a dealer tries to reverse your negotiated price. Do not fall for so-called paint sealants, upholstery protectants, or extra undercoatings. It's also all dealer packing. None of that belongs on your Deal Review Sheet or your final out-the-door price.
If the Deal Review Sheet is acceptable to you, keep it with you to ensure that your final sales contract agrees with the Deal Review Sheet.
07-31-2003, 12:08 PM
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The internet is your starting point! Every car dealer has a internet manager. They know you go online and they know you know the prices of everything. When a internet manager contacts you, usually they can give you the lowest price they can offer. I got $1000 off of mine from the internet manager. Of the 5 dealers in my area, only 2 dealers can offer me $1000 off other dealers don't want to deal that price, everyone else is taking $500 off. The problem is that everyone wants one, if you don't want to buy it, someone else DEFINITELY will.
We can always boycott the TSX for 2 months, so their lots get filled and they will be discounted, but of course everyone wants theirs now! including me.
The dealer I'm ordering from is pretty far from where I live. I called a dealer that's closer to me and told me if he can match the price, I'll come right in and give him a deposit, he couldn't do it. Oh well screw him, I go somewhere else.
Just be straight forward (tell them what you want), shop around and don't hesitate to say "no thanks".
We can always boycott the TSX for 2 months, so their lots get filled and they will be discounted, but of course everyone wants theirs now! including me.
The dealer I'm ordering from is pretty far from where I live. I called a dealer that's closer to me and told me if he can match the price, I'll come right in and give him a deposit, he couldn't do it. Oh well screw him, I go somewhere else.
Just be straight forward (tell them what you want), shop around and don't hesitate to say "no thanks".
07-31-2003, 01:42 PM
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I'm certainly no bargining master. However I just closed my deal for my TSX yesterday. I contacted (via email) the internet manager for a local dealer and let him know that he was the first person on my list of local dealers. From this site and the old site, I learned what people were paying for the TSX in my area (mostly MSRP), so I figured that getting $1000 or more off the TSX was not going to be as much of a reality as it is in other areas.
In the email I stated exactly what car I wanted and wrote: "I will pay $28,400 for this car. If you can meet it then we have a deal and I will wire you the deposit this afternoon, if not, I will move to the next dealer. Have a great day" The internet dealer called me within an hour and counter offered. I said "no thanks", and told him that I appreciated his time. He stoped me from hanging up and asked if he could call back a few moments later. 30 minutes later he called back and accepted my offer.
I'm a female and have never negotiated a car before. Could I have called another dealer and haggled even more? I suppose. However, I'm not very confident doing that, and I think I got an OK deal for the Seattle area. It really was very simple and stress free. What I did learn is that if you can deal over the phone or email, its far less intimidating, and much easier to stand your ground and say "no" to their offers. I also think that as female, the internet lets you bargin on the same firm ground as a man. I've walked into dealerships and l swear I can feel the salesmen giddy with the anticipation of and easy sale.
In the email I stated exactly what car I wanted and wrote: "I will pay $28,400 for this car. If you can meet it then we have a deal and I will wire you the deposit this afternoon, if not, I will move to the next dealer. Have a great day" The internet dealer called me within an hour and counter offered. I said "no thanks", and told him that I appreciated his time. He stoped me from hanging up and asked if he could call back a few moments later. 30 minutes later he called back and accepted my offer.
I'm a female and have never negotiated a car before. Could I have called another dealer and haggled even more? I suppose. However, I'm not very confident doing that, and I think I got an OK deal for the Seattle area. It really was very simple and stress free. What I did learn is that if you can deal over the phone or email, its far less intimidating, and much easier to stand your ground and say "no" to their offers. I also think that as female, the internet lets you bargin on the same firm ground as a man. I've walked into dealerships and l swear I can feel the salesmen giddy with the anticipation of and easy sale.
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08-01-2003, 01:27 AM
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I do not understand how or why anyone is intimidated by a car salesman? These guys are a joke! I have yet to find one that knows more about the car I am looking at than I do. I research at home, find the invoice price and work from there. If you want to find a vehicles invoice price, go to
http://www.edmunds.com
- click on new cars,
- enter your zip code,
- select the car and price range you are looking for,
- then selest the trim level you want
- add the options you are interested in.
It will tell you the invoice price for every car and all of the accessories too. Take that in with you, that will let them know that you are not the average uninformed consumer. Tell them that this is the car and these are the features.
On the TSX, I would offer them $1,000 off of MSRP and hold your ground, (for the next 2-3 months, then you could offer $1,500 after that) give them your name and number and tell them you are off to other dealerships to test drive other cars.
The worst thing you can do at a dealership is hang out and ohhh & ahhh over a car. I don't care how much you like it, you don't show emotion or they have already one. Don't get excited about anything, make so-so comments, say something to whoever you are with about how the Accord has all the same stuff and a V6. Don't say anything about a more expensive car, then they will think you have more cash and they already know thier car is less expensive. The Accord line is your best bet.
If you know everything about the car you want, you can make these guys look foolish and even correct them when they are wrong or do not know something. I always feel them out, ask them a few questions to see how much they know. Usually, it isn't much.
NEVER TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO SPEND. If you say I want my lease payment to stay under $375/mo, with $1,500 down, guess what your lease payment is going to be, $374.99. Make them give you numbers before you tell them anything.
The best deal on a TSX lease that I have heard of is $2,500 total down with $314/mo after tax. That was for 36 months 12k/yr. Average leases with those numbers are running about $350/mo
Be straight forward and blunt, you do not have to become friends with these people. If they try to buddy up to you, it isn't genuine, it is to lure you into a false sense of security. They will usually tell you something about their family or how they don't like all of the stuff that they do at "other" dealerships, it is all an act.
Always ask for numbers that include tax. You always want to know total amounts, not pre-tax amounts. TOTAL amount due at signing. Total monthly payment INCLUDING tax. Tell them right away that you do not want to see any numbers that do not include tax, it is pointless.
I have leased 5 cars for myself, family and friends over the last 3 years and I get a better deal on each and every one because you learn a little bit more with each one. Most people cave too early. The end of the month is the best time to buy, but most people wait too long. Start contact at the beginning of the month and check in 1-2 times a week. Really press hard that last week and get the deal you want!
The TSX is tricky because there are not many on the lots and the whole supply and demand has kept the prices high and the discounts low. If you can wait, do, it will be about 3-4 months before dealerships have cars sitting on the lots and then discounts will be more significant.
Remember when you couldn't wait to have a TL S-Type? Well look what happened there... You can get one now for less than the TSX...
Good Luck, be a pain in the ass!
http://www.edmunds.com
- click on new cars,
- enter your zip code,
- select the car and price range you are looking for,
- then selest the trim level you want
- add the options you are interested in.
It will tell you the invoice price for every car and all of the accessories too. Take that in with you, that will let them know that you are not the average uninformed consumer. Tell them that this is the car and these are the features.
On the TSX, I would offer them $1,000 off of MSRP and hold your ground, (for the next 2-3 months, then you could offer $1,500 after that) give them your name and number and tell them you are off to other dealerships to test drive other cars.
The worst thing you can do at a dealership is hang out and ohhh & ahhh over a car. I don't care how much you like it, you don't show emotion or they have already one. Don't get excited about anything, make so-so comments, say something to whoever you are with about how the Accord has all the same stuff and a V6. Don't say anything about a more expensive car, then they will think you have more cash and they already know thier car is less expensive. The Accord line is your best bet.
If you know everything about the car you want, you can make these guys look foolish and even correct them when they are wrong or do not know something. I always feel them out, ask them a few questions to see how much they know. Usually, it isn't much.
NEVER TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO SPEND. If you say I want my lease payment to stay under $375/mo, with $1,500 down, guess what your lease payment is going to be, $374.99. Make them give you numbers before you tell them anything.
The best deal on a TSX lease that I have heard of is $2,500 total down with $314/mo after tax. That was for 36 months 12k/yr. Average leases with those numbers are running about $350/mo
Be straight forward and blunt, you do not have to become friends with these people. If they try to buddy up to you, it isn't genuine, it is to lure you into a false sense of security. They will usually tell you something about their family or how they don't like all of the stuff that they do at "other" dealerships, it is all an act.
Always ask for numbers that include tax. You always want to know total amounts, not pre-tax amounts. TOTAL amount due at signing. Total monthly payment INCLUDING tax. Tell them right away that you do not want to see any numbers that do not include tax, it is pointless.
I have leased 5 cars for myself, family and friends over the last 3 years and I get a better deal on each and every one because you learn a little bit more with each one. Most people cave too early. The end of the month is the best time to buy, but most people wait too long. Start contact at the beginning of the month and check in 1-2 times a week. Really press hard that last week and get the deal you want!
The TSX is tricky because there are not many on the lots and the whole supply and demand has kept the prices high and the discounts low. If you can wait, do, it will be about 3-4 months before dealerships have cars sitting on the lots and then discounts will be more significant.
Remember when you couldn't wait to have a TL S-Type? Well look what happened there... You can get one now for less than the TSX...
Good Luck, be a pain in the ass!
08-01-2003, 03:16 AM
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LISTEN UP!!...the following is hands down the BEST manual ever written on how to buy a car.........www.carbuyingtips.com/
...use it wisely my son........
08-01-2003, 06:04 AM
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Tell the truth about what you want and what you know
This isn't a ford dealership and they should notice that you know what your are talking about and switch into "honest" mode. If they don't then deal with the sales manager.
This isn't a ford dealership and they should notice that you know what your are talking about and switch into "honest" mode. If they don't then deal with the sales manager.
08-01-2003, 06:21 AM
#11
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Buff .. great post .. I'm in the same boat ! I'm used to getting all my cars AT or usually BELOW invoice price. I know this is NOT possible with the TSX right now, so I guess I'll just have to wait.
In the meantime, I was able to strike a GREAT lease deal for my dad - he got a 2003 TL for $450 BELOW invoice .. yes, BELOW ! It CAN be done !! I knew this was the best deal going right now, and I've always used all the 'tools' to my advantage !
If you look at a realistic deal of $500 OVER invoice for a TSX (maybe in 3-4 months), the car can be leased for around $350 a month (including tax) .. with less than $1000 DUE at signing ! I'll wait for that, rather than give in to the hype - I still have 4 months left on my lease anyway !
I've been using Jeff's 'carbuying tips' site since the late 90s !!! It is a GREAT resource !!!
In the meantime, I was able to strike a GREAT lease deal for my dad - he got a 2003 TL for $450 BELOW invoice .. yes, BELOW ! It CAN be done !! I knew this was the best deal going right now, and I've always used all the 'tools' to my advantage !
If you look at a realistic deal of $500 OVER invoice for a TSX (maybe in 3-4 months), the car can be leased for around $350 a month (including tax) .. with less than $1000 DUE at signing ! I'll wait for that, rather than give in to the hype - I still have 4 months left on my lease anyway !
I've been using Jeff's 'carbuying tips' site since the late 90s !!! It is a GREAT resource !!!
08-01-2003, 09:44 AM
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Those were all great advices, but just to add my 2 cents, remember that if you are getting ANY accessories for your car, that they are also MARKED-UP~!! Since you don't want to pay MSRP for your car, you probably don't want to pay MSRP for your car accessories either, so remember to negotiate the price for them as well if you plan on getting any.
And if you are trading in an older car for a new one, then try to not let them know until you have already agreed on a set price for the new car. AFTER that you can negotiate on a trade-in price. Neither the new car price or the trade-in price should be compromised. I made the mistake once of telling a dealer I am trading in a car, and after that he just kept changing the numbers around, lowering the new car price but also lowering the trade-in price and so on to make it look like a better deal (but in the end they are still making the same amount of money). Needless to say I didn't purchase the car there.
Hope this helps
And if you are trading in an older car for a new one, then try to not let them know until you have already agreed on a set price for the new car. AFTER that you can negotiate on a trade-in price. Neither the new car price or the trade-in price should be compromised. I made the mistake once of telling a dealer I am trading in a car, and after that he just kept changing the numbers around, lowering the new car price but also lowering the trade-in price and so on to make it look like a better deal (but in the end they are still making the same amount of money). Needless to say I didn't purchase the car there.
Hope this helps
08-01-2003, 03:00 PM
#13
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We agreed on a price in less than 15 minutes. I think what made it quick is that I mentioned I was a member of an online car club. I got $700 off MSRP. That's probably not the best nowadays but back in May, I was actually ready to pay MSRP because that was what other people were saying they paid.
08-02-2003, 07:47 PM
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I just walked out of a dealership here in SF and I was offered a deal of:
2004 TSX 48 month lease
$500 down / $380 month
Black - Parchment / 6 speed/ non-navi
I'm not sure whats a good deal on a lease anymore since I know the dearler are willing to mark down a bit these days. I am also not sure what the percentage of TSX owners are leasing? I don't see many people posting their lease deal. I would appreciate it if you could as I will when I purchase, maybe tonight.
2004 TSX 48 month lease
$500 down / $380 month
Black - Parchment / 6 speed/ non-navi
I'm not sure whats a good deal on a lease anymore since I know the dearler are willing to mark down a bit these days. I am also not sure what the percentage of TSX owners are leasing? I don't see many people posting their lease deal. I would appreciate it if you could as I will when I purchase, maybe tonight.
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