Bill Hook

Yep. I know, thirdhand, from a Toyota master tech that some folks will never change the oil on a lease car and that Toyota will often rebuild the engines anyway.

SodaLuvr

Sauceman,
Carbon buildup around the rings is your issue. All engines will have some buildup, and its cumulative over time.

MW

curls

Michael Wan: Have you ever used Seafoam? I've used it before, on my 1991 Integra, and it was decent -- noticeable power increase and when I did rip apart the engine a few months later to change the rings, there was a lot less carbon than expected.

Also, The vehicle was driven by a businessman who lives about 175-200km from downtown, almost daily basis (3-4 times per week). It was taken to Acura for the first 35,000km, and then after that we don't know, but it seems to be fine aside from this oil problem. Tires weren't unsafe - they were changed because they were within 3/32" of being legally bald, which is still a decent amount of tread, but IMO, I wanted new tires so got that as part of the deal and/or part of the safety. No rotational issues - even wear.

Anyhow, Let me know what you think of Seafoam... I might give it a shot on the TSX one day soon.

sauceman

For those kinds of build-up, an ATF flush should do the job, right?

curls

ATF = automatic tranny fluid. Am I missing something here -- putting ATF as a flushing agent into your engine? What?

jlukja

That's what I thought too. I think we are missing something. Sauceman knows better than putting tranny fluid in his engine.

curls

Oh, by the way, I JUSt got off the phone with Acura Customer Relations (Canada) and asked them "What is the allowable limit for oil consumption as per the Honda Engineers, and from a warranty standpoint".

Their answer: 1 liter per 1,500km is the maximum.

He also suggested that anything over 1L/1,000km isn't "normal" but still within spec.

So, time for me to get an oil consumption analysis to see what's up.

Xpditor

ATF through the fuel system/intake manifold is a rather common procedure. I even saw it recommended on the Speed Channel by the Two Guys mechanics.

They sell a specific product for this but I believe it is basically ATF.

I am not the expert on this issue but I have heard enough to believe it is a legitimate practice.

I would want to check it out before I did it to my car though.

SodaLuvr

Good idea, though I doubt thats your problem...stuck PCV won't cause that much consumption.

MW

SodaLuvr

sauceman,
ATF has little cleaning ability for cleaning out stuck ringpacks, which are the cause of your problem. Ditto for 20 min engine flushes, that do little except remove surface deposits and strip the host oil and can have long-term effects on seals.

The only product that I know of, that works, for this job is Auto-RX. I've suggested it to many people with positive results.

MW

curls

What about SeaFoam? You can do 3 things with it specifically: suck into the intake manifold for combustion-chamber cleaning/de-carbonizing. Or, pour some into the oil for varnish (etc...) removal, and 3, add it to the gas to clean fuel lines, injectors, and fuel pump.

Have you heard anything about it in your readings of BITOG?

SodaLuvr

Seafoam?

It works for removing some carbon, but Auto-RX works much better.

MW

sauceman

Is auto-RX available easily?

I'm interested with this thread, because I want to discuss this issue thoroughly with my dealership before they recommend I go into a ring job.

SodaLuvr

Have to order online at auto-rx.com with the coupon code ARXFQ.

Thats the only place that its sold, if I remember correctly.

I would definitely try Auto-RX before letting your engine go underneath the knife for a ring job.

MW

sauceman

Obviously, if they feel there's no other solution, there's nothing to lose, huh, since it would probably imply reboring, re-ringing and re-pistoning.

curls

Sauceman: In case it does come to a ring job (hoping it doesn't), contact me.

I know you are located in Quebec -- possibly near Montreal? Anyhow, I have a friend who is a mechanic-by-hobby and works exclusively on Honda/Acura. He did the rebuild on my 1991 Teg a year ago and it is still running extremely strong today.

Just in case you're interested... It's well worth the trip to Limoges (1/2 way between Montreal and Ottawa on the 417).

SodaLuvr

sauceman,
Like I said, I think you simply have stuck rings due to carbon buildup, and if Auto-RX can unstick them by cleaning it up, then you should see the oil consumption drop.

BTW, here are some suggestions on the treatment. I have some lightly modified instructions:

1) Change oil/filter with conventional oil and add 1 bottle of Auto-RX. Drive for 2400 KM.
2) Change oil/filter with conventional oil and drive for 5000 KM.
3) Change oil/filter with conventional oil, add 1 bottle of Auto-RX, and drive for 1600 KM.
4) Change oil/filter with conventional oil, and drive for 5000 KM.

5) Change to your desired oil.

MW

jlukja

So its a 15,000km process? Sauceman ought to have it finished by next week.

SodaLuvr

14,000KM to be exact.

MW

jlukja

by math

sauceman

Excellent. Thanks Michael.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps a catchcan would reduce the amount of carbon buildup.

sauceman

Yehhh.

chiTSX

figure this, any time you shift above 5,000 RPMS, you're going to burn some oil. I pretty much drove my TSX to the redline for the first 35,000 miles, and i noticed anything from a half to a whole quart of oil loss between changes. This is using the top shelf Mobil 1 stuff too. I usually change oil every 2000-2500 miles depending on how i've been driving. It is common for high RPM's to consume oil. From what I've read, the RX8 consumes about a quart every 2k right off the lot.

SodaLuvr

Oh yeah, for those of who live in the US and want the miles equivalent:

1) Change oil/filter with conventional oil and add 1 bottle of Auto-RX. Drive for 1500 MI.
2) Change oil/filter with conventional oil and drive for 3000 MI.
3) Change oil/filter with conventional oil, add 1 bottle of Auto-RX, and drive for 1000 MI.
4) Change oil/filter with conventional oil, and drive for 3000 MI.

5) Change to your desired oil.

MW