fedlawman

Over at Edmunds.com, I got into a debate with a cocky C230K Sport Sedan owner (sweetc230) who claims that his Mercedes is the current benchmark in the near-lux sport sedan segement.

In making his point, he commented that "the only comparo test that was done with the 6spd C230 was in MT last year and it handily whipped the TSX & new Saab 9-3."

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web....2@.ef237aa/16

(post #35)

Of course I (fedlawman) was happy to point out that I thought he had misread the article and might need to review it again.

I created a new thread called "C230K Sport Sedan vs. TSX" and invited him to try and prove why the C230K is superior to the TSX. You're all welcome to join in!

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...n61.1@.ef25af2

Bass Mechanic

i dont feel like getting into it with that guy he seems like he has to be right no matter what you say. i would suggest you point thoes people to the article i think i posted here about how well cars hold up. the mercedes and BMW are among the worst for repairs, not to mention they cost more than just about anything else. perhaps posting a link to that article may proove your case on more than 1 angle.
try a search for how well does your car hold up. or somthing liek that i forgot the exact mame of the thread. but its probly no more than 60 days old.

dom

The TSX outperformed the C230 and 9-3 Arc in every possible category in that article and lost due to the "3 pointed star factor".

Ask him where the C230 is in C&D 10 Best list. Ask him where it was in the Automobile article in which the TSX finished first. Personally I don't think either of the cars is the current benchmark in the near-lux category but the TSX IMO is far and away the better car while the Benz has its name and not much else going for it. Just my 0.2 cents, I understand that to some the MB may seem far superior to the TSX and thats fine, just does'nt to me.

I'd be in a 3 series long before I'd be in a C230 for that money. (hope Gilbo and B-D don't see this thread).

jcg878

Ha ha - you're dreaming

3..... 2..... 1..... gilbo

p.s. I concur. The only reason to buy a C230 over a 325 is the badge. Well, and it's better looking IMO.

yuhoo22

I would take the BMW in a heart beat over the MB....

IMHO, the MB is the worst thing in the class.

vitocorleone

Buying the C230 is like marrying someone at a masquerade ball. It may look sexy, refined and have a certain mystique, but once you get it home you see what's underneath the mask. And a few years down the road you really start to pay the price.

I started off looking at the C230 coupe until I realized that, in comparison to the TSX, it is a hideously over-priced piece of junk. Not to mention, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't get over the look of it.

gilboman

i wouldnt call the C230K the benchmark of the entry sportsedan class... but the balance and poise and quality(especially the ride), steering feel are all there... going over a bump in the C230K there are no squeeks and rattles and cornering is a lot more confident all compared to the TSX.. but it costs more as well, so why not just buy a 3-series? , the TSX is a bit cheaper and for those that dont need the poise, balance, steering feel,ride and want a comfortable car with some sportiness to it.. theTSX is a good bet. it all comes down to do you want features or driving experience? the two cars are not geared towards the same crowd.... this being a TSX board, obviously most chose features.

and one last thing RWD>FWD for sportsedans (i have to put that in since that's what i'm renowned for)

Dan Martin

That's probably Gilbo's most sensible post ever.

toddstuh

I travel to Germany on business where I work with Mercedes, Porsche and Audi. While I'm there I generally rent a C180 Mercedes which is the same engine and car sans the sporty suspension of the C230K. Granted the car has the solid Teutonic Mercedes feel but it has a few real annoyances as far as I was concerned that I really didn't care for. For starters, it still has the staid old persons Mercedes feel about it, in a small but expensive package.
I am also a former 3 series owner and still went with the TSX. I've already owned a 3 series. Great car but not that great.
I worked on the development of the new Audi A8 and the new A6 which is just coming over here now.
I like the S4 but once again, the car is major bucks and you can't really even drive the thing legally here in the US where 30 mph over can land you in jail.
But back to the baby benz.
Complaints:
The gas pedal feels as though it has something wedged underneath it. I mean the pedal barely budges when depressed which takes alot of getting used to ...I guess it's a MB thing.
The supercharged engine is dead until the supercharger spools up and you think that the TSX doesn't have low end torque...wait until you try this engine it chugs along until wam! the supercharger kicks in ...similar to the turbo lag of the cars of the 80s....not very smooth at all. Then because it's not a high revving honda 4 cylinder, you're instantly banging against the rev limiter at around 6500 rpm.
Terrible gas mileage if you use the boost...thank goodness the company pays for it !
The shifter is very rubbery and has very long throws reminiscent of an old vw.
Gauges, the tachometer more resembles a gas gauge it's so small and to make things worse, it's tucked into the corner of the instrument cluster where it's difficult to see. It looks like an afterthought.
But, I presume that most MB drivers are driving automatics and havent much use for a tachometer anyway.
Additionally:
I work on German (Porsche,Audi & Mercedes) cars for a living as an engineer and am privy to all of their problems first hand.
That's why when it came to my $$$, I bought the Acura TSX.


Let me laugh at this guy.

dabuda

if you are who you claim to be then...

also does this mean you're a bad engineer...

gfxdave99

Well here's the thing about the C230...

it STARTS at 28,999

Starts.. we're talking bare bones..

I went on www.mbusa.com and did a build your own, and by the time I had the 230 with a comparible feature set to the TSX I was looking at damn near $40,000.

And If I'm going to dish out 40 grand i'll either save my pennies up for an S4 or save 5 grand and get a TL.

Realisticly speaking the 230 should more be compared to the TL for price/features

I just speced out a TL, 6 spd no navi for 33,000... Still 7,000 less then a comprably equipped 230...

This guy's a fucking idiot.

jcg878

lol - I just thought 'people are going to you around here

charliemike

What about the C240?

And if the C230k is in "near-luxury" does the C320 not count because it's too expensive?

fedlawman

It looks like sweetc230 has backed off after a most excellent post by toddstuh.

Well said.

Mokos23

is this the mercedes sports sedan that i saw in the commercial where this guy is driving this mercedes and then a hot lady is also driving the same car, i think they are avoiding cops?

osubuckeye98

MB must've thrown in some extra ego when he bought that car...either that or he is too ashamed about his poor decision. Prob one of those one-uppers.

Johns

Funny, some jerk at Edmunds makes a rediculous claim about the C230K and people respond by call the C230 a piece of junk, overpriced, etc. I think both sides are guilty of overstatements. I own both cars. They are both fun to drive and built well. I prefer the C230 but thats me. The Acura will have a better chance of good reliability, but I have also owned 5 VWs with the lowest milage one being 120,000 and the highest 195,000, and did not have any major problems with any of them. These are cars. We all have likes and dislikes, but calling the C230K the benchmark for near lux cars is just as stupid as some of the responses I've read here.

helloha

Just got my TSX. I agree with most of post above about the claim on C230 vs TSX.
But again. Same claim will be made with people that drive Accord V6/Maz 6/Altima 3.5 will say the same thing about how Overprice TSX is with smaller engine/less HP vs theirs and paid 5k less than TSX.
I did comparing TSX vs C240 4 matics when I shoped for TSX.
C240 4 Matics with 6CD, Heated seat, sunroof is going for 32k (MSRP 35k) Without even bargaining with salespeple. The C240 do drive quieter and more solid on road vs TSX, plus it is a 4WD. But I am not ready to wear "3 Point Star" yet in my shoulder.

MoMocedes

O come on guys Im a C230 owner the car isnt that bad, I mean dont own a TSX "YET" so I really cant justify whether its a good car or not and the look seriously it grows on you and only if you get the sport package and for next month they are coming out with a slightly redesigned coupe which looks alittle more aggeressive but all this carping about the comparision of the two is really odd because if you narrow it down they are similar and the supercharger gives off enough boost to feel your neck jerk (well the 2.3 I dont know about the 1.8) and the price is very reasonable plus the warranty is very very good with the service that is handed down with the car. Im thinking about getting the sedan or the TSX but I have 4 months to make up my mind and I would have to agree with one thing the MPG sucks, but seriously for anyone looking into buying a new car around the $30k range look into C230 well thats my 0.02

toddstuh

I don't know if I'd mentioned this but I was seriously considering purchasing the C230 sedan myself. I rent a C Class Benz when I go over to Germany on business. I was envisioning the european delivery plan as well. Excellent car but at the very end before making up my mind I weighed each car against one another using my "..ability" criteria which are ...

Reliability
Affordability
Liveability

Reliability - Hands down the TSX, the MB isn't bad but I begin to weigh the longevity of a supercharged 4 cylinder. I keep my cars on the average of 7-10 years. My engineering experience has taught me that more complexity is directly proportional to the probability of problems. A belt driven supercharger just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling as far as reliablity is concerned. On the otherhand, the honda engines are so smooth, powerful and efficient I get 28-30 mpg vs the comparitively poor mileage of the C180 i rent in Germany. Which leads me to my next criteria...

Affordability - Also the TSX wins here as well. Call me cheap but my out the door price of the TSX was $26,136 which is a relative bargain. the C230 would have been at least 5K more and to top it off, I would have had to order the car If I had wanted the options such as a sunroof, leather, zenons and folding rear seat. Most of the cars that had xenons were fully loaded which really upped the price. did I really want to pay $5K. What if I invested that $5K instead ? My dad drives a Lexus 430, He got rid of his E class for this very reason. MB has a maintenance schedule that consists of replacing components well before the part has failed. This is great for reliability but your maintenance costs really add up over the long term.

Liveabilty - TSX won out again. Living in New England, FWD does help in the snow over rear wheel drive where we have snow and hilly terrain to deal with. When driving the C180 in Germany during the winter, I got a reminder of the differences between FWD and RWD in inclement weather. I have a Jeep for the winter but 4 snows on the TSX for limited winter driving and I'll be all set.
And finally, my nearest MB dealership is almost 25 miles away. I have an Acura dealership a mile away from work and another dealership < 5 miles from my home. Taking the C230 in for service comparitively would have been a major hassle.
Additionally, in a pinch you can pretty much visit any Honda dealership as well for emergencies.

Thus, my decision to purchase the TSX over the C230. Both, I attest, are beautiful automobiles but what it boils down to is similar to women, they might look great and all but when it comes down to it can you really live with 'em ? {:^)