BimmerAcura

Now, i've only been driving stick for around 8 months and this is my first one, but i've driven others and I feel this car is giving me tons of trouble. Between the clutch engagement point, the absolute zero low torque, DBW, etc. I feel like it's tough. Don't get me wrong, love how it handles, looks, but im just so inconsistent with it it seems. I feel like you MUST be 100% perfect on every shift, or else you are going to pay for it as in jerks. Is it just me? lol

PACman

DBW can be challenging to work with; especially if you want smooth shifts. What RPM's are you shifting at?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

hah, you should try the TL's clutch...
fuggin HORRIBLE.

after 3 years of ownership, I still jerk like a noob

BimmerAcura

I shift at around 2.5-3.5K depending on the situation.

The biggest thing I hate is the zero low end torque. I know it's only a 4cyl 200hp cars, so obviously it's low on total torque, but this car literally has ZERO low end! lol

I release the clutch to engage 1st, and the RPMs drop like a rock and my car gets that "bucking" launch lol. That's pretty much just more practice, but it is frustrating on how unforgiving the car is for some minor mistakes. don't even get me started on the 1-2 shift lol. Again, I like it, but it's just very frustrating.

I drove the TL before and it wasn't too bad.

DuckDodgers

You have to be pushing in as you let out...the gas should just blip as you release the clutch. Say about 1200 rpm's as you release the clutch smoothly...

You also blip slightly on shifts since the rpm's drop so quickly.

BimmerAcura

So should I leave my foot on gas slightly, for at least the 1-2 shift?

And yeah, the RPMs drop ridiculously fast in this car. When I do a 5-3 downshift, the time im done disengaging the clutch, RPMs fall to idle, so it's hard to be accurate with my rev matches.

DuckDodgers

I find that off the gas as you clutch in, and a slight blip to match as you clutch out when going 1-2, 2-3, etc...

From a stop, a blip to about 1200 or so with a slight slip makes a smoother take-up.

Ken1997TL

No issues with DBW and a manual in my S2000 or CR-Z.

Might want to get your clutch checked (?)

BimmerAcura

S2K/CR-Z are two completely different cars.

My clutch is fine, I had my friend check it out.

DBW isn't really giving me trouble as in being smooth, it's just annoying.

My biggest grip is the unforgiving clutch and the 1-2 shift.

Boulder TSX

I've been trying to come up with a way of saying this without saying what Ken just said...but I don't think it's a problem with ALL TSX's.

I have been driving stick for 20+ years, and owned nothing but cars with a manual exclusively...sports cars of all kinds. The TSX is a breeze to shift...or at least mine is. First gear to second is smooth. No jerks, no problems. I can't for the life of me figure out what you're having trouble with... and that leads me to believe it's due to something wrong with your car, or your (admitted) lack of experience.

I'm not alone. Look up Car & Driver's review of the TSX and the write ups of the 'Ten Best Cars' awards in won in 2004, 05 & 06, (which they said was awarded largely because of the manual transmission version, not the automatic)...they repeatedly wrote about its manual transmission being one of the best they had driven -- ever.

This discussion is like watching someone say they just can't find a way to eat Godiva chocolate without gagging. --I can see it happening occasionally, but it's just not a universal problem.

If there's nothing wrong, perhaps practice is the thing...and Duck Dodgers' advice on shifting points & revs is very good.

BimmerAcura

I've someone checkout my clutch and he said it's fine, so im guessing it's just me lol.

I'll try blipping it a drop on 1-2 shift.

Any tips on shifting at high RPMs? Like 4K+?

R_R4

I suggest test driving a used 6 speed 04-08 TSX at a dealership (maybe an Acura dealership closest to you would be your best bet).


Compare the two. Then you'll know if your car has a problem for sure, or if you're just not fond of the shifter in the TSX. I drove the 6 spd and LOVED it. It was snick-snick smooth, light clutch, nice to row the gears for sure.

I still regret not getting one. BUT, I commute in heavy, heavy traffic daily which isn't fun at all and other members of the family just wouldn't hear me out when I told them I wanted a manual trans- so the auto had to suffice.

DuckDodgers

Gotta second the points above...I've driven manuals since 1980...experience makes smoothness.

BimmerAcura

hmm possibly.

What tips do you guys have for shifting at higher rpms? do I release clutch faster? Just shifter quicker?

Also, the engagement point is so low, that everytime launch 1st, I always end up bucking.

Ken1997TL

I've driven the TSX manual, both first and second generation. I didn't notice anything different or strange like you've described.

psteng19

It's not just you. The TSX is one of the trickier cars I've driven. Wait until summer time when you start using AC.

DuckDodgers

OK, I'm gonna go ahead and change what I said before. I spent the last few days really watching how I'm shifting, and found a few things that I didn't realize I was doing. But first, lets do a primer:

A manual transmission works by using a pair of plates pressed together to mechanically link the engine to the wheels. The transmission has a number of ratios that may be selected. The clutch controls the disengagement of the plates through its motion. (For the purposes of this discussion, disengagement means pushing the clutch pedal to the floor, resulting in the transmission being disengaged from the engine.)

On the TSX, the clutch generally travels freely for most of the bottom half of it's travel and engages through the upper half of its travel. This engagement location will vary between vehicles because of clutch wear and adjustment.

The TSX has a synchronized transmission, which means that gears are automatically brought to speed during engagement and doesn't require double clutching. Double clutching is simply having to disengage the clutch, select neutral, engage the clutch and disengage it again, and then select the next gear and engage the clutch. This is a handy trick to know, since the TSX 6MT has a known weakness in it's syncros. Skip shifting, or shifting from one gear up to another gear besides the next in sequence, is known to prematurely wear the syncos and cause damage. If you want to skip shift, and I'm in favor of it, you MUST double clutch those shifts.

OK, now we have a basis for this discussion, here's what I noticed.

Starting from a stop. Clutch disengaged, rpm's to 1600-2000, clutch smoothly released, with a slight throttle application during the rpm drop that occurs as the clutch engages so that the rpm drops smoothly to around the 1000-1500 mark as the car starts moving.

Shifting up. Stay on throttle as the clutch disengages so that there is a slight rpm increase (200-300 rpm) at clutch disengagement and then you release the throttle and allow the revs to start to fall with the clutch fully disengaged. A prompt and smooth shift to the next gear, and a prompt smooth re-engagement of the clutch should result in pretty good rev matching.

As a rule of thumb, expect revs between gears to be matched with a drop of about 500-750 rpm shifting at 2000-2750 rpm, 750-1000 rpm shifting at 2750-3500 rpm and 1000+ rpm when above 3500 rpm.

Shifting down to use engine braking is simply a function of a throttle blip to the approximate rpm you expect to see with the new, lower gear, and again a smooth clutch release with throttle as needed.

Basically, the key to smooth shifting in almost any manual car is a smooth, predictable clutch stroke. After a few cycles, you should have a feel for the clutch engagement point and be able to adjust your clutch motions. Then it's a matter of the speed of rev decay when off the throttle during shifts. After you relate that to clutch timing and rpm's between gears, you'll find you can shift any car smoothly.

BimmerAcura

My clutch actually catches like right away lol. My clutch is fine, though, no slipping, and got it checked out.

I think my only shifting problem is the 1-2 and the launch in engaging 1st. I'll try the leaving foot on gas slightly for 1-2/ Every other shift is fine.

What about shifting at like 4+K? Do you want to just move shifter quickly and fast release on clutch? A lot, I don't get a jerk, but I get like a "jolt" in that seat. Is this normal?

DuckDodgers

For a fast shift, there is gonna be driveline lash, that's the jolt you refer to.

Basically, I stay on the throttle as the clutch disengages for a split second, which cause a slight rev increse...on normal shifts, that'll rev match nicely as the revs fall and the clutch re-engages. For a fast shift, it's clutch to the floor, off the gas at the same time, slam the shift and back on it. Nothing smooth about it.

SeaJay

Oh man now I'm totally questioning my shifting...
I basically learned on the TSX so I'm probably doing something wrong. Been three 3 years now and I commute in heavy traffic.

Basically my experience is to keep the rpms high and release the clutch smoothly, from floor to full release. I always disengage to the floor. I shift at 2700-3200 rpm's.

For 4k+ shifts I rev high and release the clutch in as fast a smooth motion as I can. As long as the revs are high the shift is smooth. Otherwise I can expect that "junk".
The clutch engages at the top so sometimes my foot goes retarded and doesn't release properly, mostly when I am tired.

DuckDodgers

High rpm's is fine, smooth release is fine...it's excess slippage you want to avoid. You like to see the rpms drop toward about 1500 as the clutch fully engages because that's about the minimum for a smooth take-up.

BimmerAcura

Weird everyone saying their's catches high..my clutch catches pretty quick, like right away.

And I found 1.5K is the spot for a smooth launch. Anything lower seems to buck, unless you have a slow clutch release.

rflynn88

I found the TSX manual a little tough to drive smoothly when I bought it 2 months ago.

I've been driving only manual transmission cars for the last 5 years/140K miles. A 2003 Jetta VR6, 2004 Jetta GLI 1.8T, and a 2009 Mazda MX-5.

The TSX feels very different and IMO has a bit of a steeper initial learning curve to driving it smoothly than some other cars, but it's rewarding when you get it right and a real pleasure to drive.

After ~2K miles I can easily start off in first holding revs between 1200 and 1500 while engaging the clutch quickly and smoothly. The 1-2 shift took some time to smooth out, but once you get the timing down it's pretty easy. All other gears are cake. Also, none of the cars I listed above have TSX levels of rev hang, although all are DBW. That took some getting used to.

The TSX is also a bit jerkier in 1st gear than my Jettas were. From what I've found thus far, you have to be extra smooth with the throttle when navigating parking lots or traffic at low speeds.

As others have said, drive another TSX 6MT to ensure nothing is wrong with yours. If not it may just be a lack of experience. In which case that's just a good excuse to get out and drive your TSX for practice!

BTW, my clutch engages pretty close to the floor.

BimmerAcura

Cool, thanks.

Today I noticed after winding out 1st to 4.5-5K on a turn, my shifter was harder and different feel going into 2nd. Like something with the synchros or something. Has anyone experienced this? The shift was brutal. Almost flew through the windshield and my car hopped lol. Ughh, don't know what I did wrong.

jiggaman

i think the trickiest aspect is the jerkiness at slower speeds when off and on the throttle because of the DBW.

after driving one for almost 150K miles i've gotten used to it haha

DuckDodgers

It's possible that due to the turn, the half-shaft was loading the gears in such a way to make the shift more difficult. Try it in a straight line and you'll know if you messed something up. Is the shifting going a little better now?

BimmerAcura

Did it in straight line and still feels same.

This car is really giving me fits. It's def. my experience, though, because it seems consistency is my biggest problem. I'll maybe keeping my foot lightly on the gas. All my high RPM shifts are not that smooth.


Also, what is the proper way to downshift rev match? I've found compared to other cars, if let's say im in 5th and need to get to 3rd for a turn, i'll rev match before the turn, but i've found right when press the clutch in, the rev fall so fast that by the time I rev match im at idle speed and then it;s tough for me to match it. Any tips?

rflynn88

This definitely takes getting used to. What surprises me is that both of my Jettas were DBW, and both were much smoother in this aspect. You had to be a little gentle - quick on/off throttle in first would be jerky - but you didn't have to walk on egg shells like you do with the TSX 6MT in first.

I'd say the short first gear ratio is to blame, but my Miata has a shorter first gear (3.82, 4.10 final) than the TSX (3.267, 4.70 final), and it is much less jerky in 1st gear.

It's still a fun car to drive none-the-less.

rflynn88

Try blipping the throttle right after you disengage the clutch to leave 5th gear. Shift to 3rd while you pop up the revs, then re-engage the clutch. Pop the revs up to approximately where they should be in 3rd for the speed you are traveling.

If you are engaging the cluctch for 3rd and the revs are too high, you probably blipped the throttle too hard. If the revs have fallen too much before you engage the clutch for 3rd, you either need to shift faster or blip the throttle a bit harder.

While working out the timing, you can pop the revs up higher than you need and then engage the clutch when the revs fall to an appropriate level for 3rd. You'll want hone in on the right amount of blip to match your personal shifting speed, the speed of the car, and the gear change (eg 4-3).

BimmerAcura

I think I just wasn't quick enough, I nailed a solid 5-3 down shift just before, so that's good lol.

What about downshifting when you really need to accelerate quickly, like passing? Do you just keep your foot on the gas slightly and downshift like that since you want to be as quick as possible?

DuckDodgers

On a side note, the best advise I've ever read on shifting was attributed to Jackie Stewart (if you don't know the name, look it up). He said to treat the shifter knob like an egg when shifting. Pull it back with the middle of the fingers and/or push it forward with the heel of your hand, gently. Doing this makes you be more deliberate in shifting vs just grabbing and jerking.

BimmerAcura

So i've been practicing my rev matches and they've been getting better, although, I keep overevving it a lot. I think my problem before was not being quick enough, so then my RPMs just drop.

1-2 shift getting better. I've found if I just hold the clutch disenaged for a split second and then release it gradually, it's smooth.

Still working on being consistent.

BimmerAcura

What RPMs do you guys usually shift out of 1st?

Is 2-2.2K too low? I really don't like winding out the engine to 3K+ and this car's 1st gear is incredibly short.

DuckDodgers

Any shift that doesn't result in a post shift rpm below 1500 is fine, however you will not get fast engine response at that low a point. Honestly, most of the time I'll run 1st gear up high and skip shift to 3-6th, depending on how much I wound it up, which is also based upon speed limits and traffic. Just remember to double clutch!

SirBLaughs

iTrader: (1)

it took me nearly 4-5 months to get the hang of this drive by wire. After that I love it and very used to the quirks.

i-vtec all dizzay!

BimmerAcura

I have an 04, too man.

Any tips?

Just trying to absorb all advice I can from my fellow TSeX drivers.

gdcwatt

I've logged about 600,000 miles with manual transmissions, including a 55 TR2, 74 Fiat Spyder & Coupe, 82 RX-7, 91 Civic, 88 Accord, 36 Ford Roadster, Audi 100LS, Volvo 242GT, VW Beetle, a 5 ton truck, and my father's 69 E-Type and a couple of 911's and a Lotus Eclat... - and my TSX's MT has been the most difficult of all to use. [Ok, I used to double clutch more in the truck.] For much of the TSX's first 115,000 miles the transmission reacted slowly, and there have been many missed and jerky upshifts and downshifts.

I've driven another TSX that was like mine, and another (and a couple of TLs and an RSX) that wasn't. Replacing the master cylinder didn't change anything, but a subsequent re-bleeding of the master cylinder did change things - shifts were no faster, but it eliminated much of the annoying drive-by-wire jerkiness that I got in stop and go traffic, when I'd just roll off the clutch, with no pressure on the gas pedal.

My TSX's friction point was always very low, and somewhere there's a thread which I recently found, about changing the height of the friction point (people keep telling me that the clutch itself is self-adjusting), but at 113,000 miles I was starting to have real problems and had the clutch and flywheel replaced, instead. I used to purposefully shift very slowly, and made sure my toe was all the way to the floor before I shifted.

With the new clutch, everything has changed, but the most dramatic change is that the friction point is now at the very top of the pedal's travel. I've gotten used to it, and while it's not right the car has been transformed. I've been thinking that that thread which talked about re-positioning where the friction point is was right - and that that has been many people's problem, not a worn out clutch - and at some point I'll try an adjustment.

In terms of driveability, the biggest change is that the car seems to launch harder. That, and that all shifts are faster, and always a sure thing - up or down.

bigsef36

Got to love them sticks

MLopez

Reading this makes me know that I have been doing the shifting really bad. I have never done double shifting, sometimes Im on 2nd and I directly shift to 4th. Generally I shift all the gears about 1.500 and 2.000 rev to impruve gas millage.
Somebody have a video or something that teach me how to drive manual cars I think I need some help.

BimmerAcura

You should definitely stop shifting that low. You can get away with 5-6 or 4-5 shift at 2K, but at 1500, that is way too low for this car, or even most unless it has insane torque and is just 1-2.