"Should've won?" It took 3rd? I can see arguing if it took 2nd an it was splitting hairs, but it took 3rd! That's what you get with a FWD sports sedan. I don't write the articles, I just post them when people say the 325 isn't a "real" BMW. 330i's are even more impressive and the M3 is king in my book. Although practically speaking, I still might opt for the S4 due to MN driving...

 

are you and gilboman brothers?

you should join a BMW site and tout your BMW and get out of the TSX site

 

i stick around to help delusional individuals like yourself.

 

Are you one of those guys who thinks everyone should make the team and there should never be any tryouts and cuts? This is reality, not fantasy-land. Do you want this to be the type of place where there are never any debates, disagreements or comparisons? Get real! I am a huge TSX fan until I run into a BMW basher. Even then, I still like the TSX, I just have to put it's owner (with the big mouth) in thier place.

 

The most sensible thing that B-D has ever said and I agree, no forum is fun when it's all buddy-buddy.

I'm a huge Honda fan (almost on the edge of fan boy), but I'm not stupid enough to say that all car companies, Honda and BMW alike, have shortcomings in various areas.

Junkster, who does wonder now if Gilbo and B-D aren't long lost relatives...

 

Just remeber guys, as much as we want to identify with our cars....at the end of the day...they're all just cars. No need to get personal.

 

Plus, this is just some internet forum, nothing but pure entertainment and amusement for all involved.

Plus, I don't want out resident BMW/Toyota trolls to be banned or anything... I wouldn't have anything to read during work.

Junkster, who thinks a pool should be started for who gets banned next (after our famous Larch and Crazy bootings).

 

The review here has some interesting TSX vs BMW opinions. Basically the TSX is right up there wth the Bimmers.

http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...&threadid=8037

 

I'm biased towards the TSX and I gotta say this statement is TOTALLY false. Sorry...but a BMW is the ultimate driving machine whether or not it has sport package...it's the truth.

I know it. You know it. We all know it. Let's just accept it.

BMW = ULTIMATE driving machine

 

BMW's are overpriced and overrated. However, they are RWD (or AWD), which means they can use all the horsepower their engines produce. The TL finished third because its engine is too big for its FWD drivetrain.
Now, when the TL gets the AWD system that is going into the RL, it will finish well ahead of BMW and everyone else in that C&D comparo.

 

Acura is so far behind that by the time the TL gets that or any AWD system, everyone else will already be offering the next best thing... They just debuted the 2004 TL not to long ago, why didn't they slap it on there? Why they are wasting thier time putting an AWD system on the RL I will never understand. No one is going to buy this thing anyway. I don't think too many people are looking for a $50,000 Acura. I promise you that it will not even be as nice as the base Lexus ES330 which you can pick up for juiced for $37,000.

 

Actually, B-D, if the RL is anything like the drawings, Acura will sell a lot of them. IMO the reason they didn't put it on the TL is, they wanted to RL to get it first. Too bad though -- the TL is finishing in the middle of the pack of their comparison tests.

 

Don't they realize that the TL is their Bread & Butter! Even if the RL is 5x what I am expecting, it will still sell less than every other car in thier line-up except the NSX. Appeal to the masses, not the minority...

 

I completely agree with Buff Daddy with his statements about the RL. The RL will be considered a niche vehicle. Not many individuals can or will purchase vehicles that are within this range. Unfortunately, the people who can drop that kind of coin on these vehicles would normally move to the more prestigious brands...such as BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus.

The good thing though is that whatever technology Honda uses on the RL would trickle down to their other bread and butter vehicles.

 

That article is joke, IMO. Good luck finding a brand new 325i under 35k. If you do it'll be basically be a 325i chassis and drivetrain with all the lux of a mid-range Civic. I really like Bimmers, and some of the stuff that they do with their cars is first rate, but you definitely pay for it. The TL can be had, with all of it's luxury features under 35k easy, without Navi.

If I was shopping in the 35k or just under price range, the 325i wouldn't even be on my list because it wouldn't compete feature for feature with any of the other cars on that list at that price.

 

Really? I just built a 325i for $33,195 with the following options...

Sports Package (suspension, 17" Rims, Performance Tires & More)
DUAL Power Seats with Driver Memory
Adaptive & Self Leveling Xenon Headlights (hi & low)
Heated Seats
Metallic Paint

Standard items you would not get on a TSX:
Inline 6 cylinder engine with the same EPA for highway gas milage as the TSX (29)
Free-Form Halogen Foglights
One-Touch Controls throughout.

*Notice I didn't mention leather or packages other than the Sports Package. I didn't mention leather becasue your TSX doesn't have leather either. Leather "trimmed" interior means 90% leatherette, so we'll call it even. Don't believe me? Call and ask your local sales manager the truth. The word "trimmed" is in there for a reason. And don't even mention the stereo, it might sound good on paper, but not in person.
As far as the packages go, skip them, you can add all you need outside of the packages and save a lot of money.

You can get a very nice BMW for $33,190 and the selling/leasing price would be more like $31,600. The TSX obviously gives you a lot of these features for a lot less, but there is a difference in the cars performance, brakes, handling, tires, fit-n-finish, and amenities. The TSX has Xenons, the 3 has adaptive Xenons. The TSX has a Power drivers seat, the BMW has dual power seats, one-touch controls, etc...
Acura had to cut some corners to offer this vehicle at this price, plain and simple. Is it worth the difference? That is for each and every individual to decide on thier own.
It all came down to financing for me and I could lease my $34,840 BMW 325xi for less than the $27,035 TSX, so it was a no-brainer... I think people automatically put BMW out of reach when their financing is the best in the industry.

 

good ol' Cock-Daddy...

 

sure hope Cock-Daddy's kid doesn't grow up to be like him.

 

Cock-Daddy yes the TSX interior is leather "trimmed" but 90%?

More like 40-45%, (50% at the most) and don't make me explain which parts are leather.

 

Why wouldn't I want my kid to be smart and back up thier points with research and facts?

And coming from a guy who considers himself a "bootieologist" with a 1/2 naked picture of a 16 year old, I wouldn't say you were qualified to give advice or serve as a role model for children...

 

domn, you know better than to ASSUME... Make a phone call, I was given this figure by the Sales Manager at my local Acura dealership, the other sales manager (different dealership) said 80% when I asked him to confirm this.

Like I said, be happy, it is a superior material and no one can tell the difference, it fooled all of you!

 

Cock-Daddy, is it hard to adopt a child when you're a gay man? i heard that it's difficult?

 

Please don't take my comments as a personal affront to BMW. My father owns 2, a 2001 Z3 and a 2003 M3 convertible. I love to drive both. I've been to the BMW factory for the factory delivery option and drove M3's around their track. My father and I almost went to the M school this year but couldn't find a date that worked for both of us. I would have bought a 330Ci if it was in my price range. I looked at the 325i's but I couldn't really afford it with the options I wanted. I could have swung the TL but didn't like it enough more to pay the extra 5 or 6 grand (I make decent money, but not rich by any means). My next car probably will be an M3, assuming I can afford it then.

While your 325i is a sweet car, it certainly doesn't compete in luxury feature set to the other cars on that list at that price. The only real advantage out of luxury features (discounting performance for the moment) is the adaptive headlights, which as far as I know aren't offered on any of the other cars. Admittedly the leatherette on BMW's is pretty nice, I've ridden in one that has it, and the fit and finish is superb, I haven't seen any other make that has that satisfying clunk when the doors close.

But basically, at the same price as a TL you have a much smaller feature set. Do you really think that they tested the 325i as you put it together? I somehow doubt it. Most 325i's on the lot at dealerships I've been to have had leather, auto, Business CD, sunroof, onboard cpu, etc. They also have been greater than 35k. Some people might choose to drive a 325i with minimum features rather than a TL with all of the above and then some, or G35, etc. For me, and a lot of other people, we'd rather have the 6 disc changer, blue tooth, sunroof, and voice activation for the same price. To me that cross shopping is truly apples and oranges with a 35k price limit as sacrifices in luxury have to be made to get the nicer car at that price.

I should have noted in the last post that Audi is as bad or worse as BMW in this department.

 

Yes I'm ASSUMING that 45% of the TSX Interior is a leatherette but I think its a fairly fair assumption. Every part of my body besides my outer thinghs and rear shoulder blades is touching preforated leather. The door inserts are also preforated real leather. I'm 100% certain that its far less than 80% leatherette.

Kurt, Justin, Colin can you confirm?

 

It's about as hard as living your life as a ghetto/ganster/player wanna-be. I'm guessing you are 5'4", white and listening to Vanilla Ice right now while popping zits in the mirror before you have to go deliver pizzas to pay for your TSX...

Word to yo Mutha!

 

I think its going to be tough to nail down exactly what the percentage is. But most of the leatherette is on the back of the front seats, and in the middle-back seats. But who really cares about that? In terms of actaually area that you see and touch, there is plenty of real leather.

 

Pontiac has perforated leather too, I'm sure that is all 100% leather too, right?

 

80% is probably too high based on surface area. I'd say closer to half. The part where ass sits and your back hits are leather, unless you're a fatty. The side bolsters, and shoulder bolsters head rest and back side of the seats are leatherette. There's less leather in the rear, I know the bitch seat is all leatherette, but I don't sit back there ever so I can't remember about the left and right rears. I do know there is some real leather there though. Also on the doors.

 

"stop, collaborate and listen, Ice is back with a brand new edition"

 

fdl, the seat backs are all hard plastic, save the sides. The back seat is where you'll find the majority of the leatherette.

Buff-Daddy, I'm fairly sure the preforated leather on the doors are leather. Am I postive? no but 90% sure going by feel. The leatherette on the seats does not feel like leather. Anyone else have an opinion on the leather on the doors?

 

Not in my car. Its leatherette all over the back. In any case its still "non-leather" and will affect the percentage. But like i said you dont see or feel that area so its not as important.

 

Wait, above the bottom pocket, is'nt there a hard plastic shell? I could have sworn that was the case? Can anyone else confirm whats on the back of the front seats?

 

I think the fact that no one can tell proves the point I was trying to make... I put BMW's leather and leatherette side by side on the lot and looked/felt both in daylight and I was amazed. Why spend the money when you have to look that close and still cannot really tell the difference. Plus, the "ette" smells like leather longer and wears better. I chuckle every time someone coments on how nice the leather is...

 

Now you are making me second guess. There may be a small part that is plastic but most of the surface (inicluding the pocket) is leatherette.

 

Yes, the pocket is definently a leatherette and so is the top of the back of the seat. But think about the middle. There's a hard plastic shell there, I think.

 

I am too lazy to walk out to my car ... but here is a pic so that folks know what area we are talking about:

 

Buff Dad, I concur on BMW leatherette, it's very nice. TSX is pretty good too. Not quite as nice, but close.

 

nice prov!

Ya so that small section above the pocket on the back of the front seat is hard plastic. But the majority is leatherette.

 

I would like to think I can "feel" the difference and here is my opinion. The front of the front seats are real leather. The sides and back are leatherette. The consol box also feels like leather, however the BACK seat may only have true leather on the perforated parts.

 

Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know.