Hi everyone,

I'm shopping for a used Acura and have narrowed my choice down to the 1st-gen TSX or the 3rd-gen TL. In either case I'd want one with the 6-speed manual. I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two. I love the power, comfort, and roominess of the TL, and it handles well for a large sedan. But what has me smitten about the TSX is the steering, which I would characterize as even better than the Mini Cooper I'm currently driving. It's that good. It just feels so direct and alive. My only reluctance about the TSX is the relative lack of power compared to the TL.

So here's the thing-- this weekend I test drove an '04 TSX and then right afterwards tested a new 2013 ILX. The steering of the ILX, having electric power assist, paled in comparison to the TSX. Nicely weighted but numb by comparison.

But the ILX's engine felt *so* much more willing-- even down at the lower part of the midrange, where the torque felt stronger and much more immediate. Now granted, the ILX weighs ~3000 lbs, compared to the ~3300 lb TSX. But the engine specs are VERY similar-- both have almost identical hp and torque ratings at similar rpm peaks.

I guess my question is-- putting aside the question of the extra 300+/- lbs weight (and the fact that the TSX was 9 ys old and of unknown provenance), would some simple/affordable mods (Hondata tune, CAI, etc) be able to bestow an '04-'08 TSX with that same oomph and liveliness I found in the ILX? Or am I bestter off sticking with the TL if I want the extra kick in the pants power?

 

Look at an 06-08...Acura boosted the engine output by 13 horsepower in the 06 refresh, (and added a number of features.) It's not a lot, but it definitely helps. Also, look into Hondata. Many people in this forum call it a great performance upgrade and the best bang for the buck.

 

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I'm still perplexed as to why the ILX felt *so* much more powerful, especially at the lower end of the powerband. Maybe a combination of the extra weight, plus maybe the engine was out of tune, plus maybe it was filled with regular gas, etc.

The ILX's engine *was* a lot louder, so that may have contributed to the feeling of MOAR POWER.

 

I have read here and elsewhere that Acura aligned the 2G TSX engine management profile to be much like the one provided by Hondata's reflash...part of which lowers the engagement point of VTEC. The engine in the sport model of the ILX is essentially taken directly from the 2G TSX.

Naturally, the 2G TSX weighs more than the 1G, so there is not much difference of delivery of power between cars. But the ILX weighs less than both...as you mentioned, that could explain a lot, as well. (I recall seeing the tested 0-60 time being slightly better than the TSX.) Too bad the ILX does not have the nimble reflexes or incredible steering of the 1G TSX...otherwise it might be a worthwhile successor to the TSX.

 

Yeah. I've read a ton of posts on this forum that attest to the palpable effect the Hondata reflash has on the engine's flexibility.

Another point in favor of the TSX. This will be a very tough decision. Basically I've tested both a TSX and TL and in both cases walked away feeling like it should be my next car.

Of course I also have an old NA Miata for weekend hooning, which makes me wonder if maybe I should just go with the TL for my daily commuter, what with the bottomless torque and the amazing seats and the OMG THIS SOUNDS AWESOME sound system. But then I think of how nimble the TSX feels...

 

ILX shouldn't even be in the discussion.

If it's 6 speed TSX vs. 6 speed TL...hands down TL. 6 speed TLs are pretty tough to find, so if you can only find auto, then i'd rather a 6 speed TSX over one.

 

Well, in this particular forum you'll find a good deal of disagreement with that opinion. (Though I agree with you that the ILX is not in the discussion...and with 6 speed over auto.)

If it's power alone, yes; the TL has more. But it also weighs more and does not handle or corner as well as the TSX. Thus, when looking at the overall driving experience, which includes handling, steering and chassis dynamics, the TSX usually wins.

Proof of that: The automotive press preferred the 2004-08 TSX to the 2004-08 TL. For example, the TSX won Car & Driver's "10 Best Cars Award" three years in a row. (10 cars are chosen from 50-60 nominees each year.) The TL was never even nominated.

 

Thats because they couldnt find one to drive.

 

I love it. --Good sense of humor.

 

I wouldn't discount the appeal of the ILX. The automotive press have typecast it as an overpriced Civic, and like I said, the steering has less feedback than the TSX, but there is still a lot to like in the driving dynamics. I'd probably go for a TSX if I was determined to purchase a new Acura though, if for no other reason that it's so much easier on the eyes.

One thing I find exasperating: neither the 2013 ILX nor TSX can be had with both 6MT and navigation, at any price. I mean, sure, drivers who prefer a manual gearbox clearly have a superior sense of direction, but still....

 

Good points.

I've driven both the TL 6MT and TSX 6MT (as I have one) and both are great cars. It really depends on your wants. TSX def. handles better, better steering, and a smoother ride. The TL has the power, bigger/better interior, and gets just as good gas mpg for a v6. A 6 speed TL, you're getting a beautiful luxury car, 0-60 in 5.9 14.2 1/4, average handling, and great gas mpg for a luxury sedan.

Both are awesome cars. Can't go wrong with either.

 

I just don't understand the point of an ILX. Yes, it is an overpriced Civic.

It's ugly, bland interior for a luxury brand. For over 5K less, i'd just get a Civic Si. Im not sure what the market for this car is supposed to be.

 

I'm sorry. I feel like a soccer mom has invaded the Acura executive board room and messed/confused everything up within Acura's business plan.

Why is Acura trying to answer questions that no one is asking? I don't care what others say, but do you guys hear what other car owners say about the Acura lineup? From its horrible exterior design, to awkward marketing, and of course that metallic power rangers grill beak, its embarrasing. Only explanation I can think of why they went like this starting in 2009, is that a flustered soccer mom went into the Acura board room and said, "Lets make the cars fatter, bloated, shinier, ugly, and disconnected from the road!"


ILX is overpriced, bland, and replicates what a Civic Si already does.

 

...And it is slower than the Si because of the fatter, bloated part.

The only saving grace is that it is slightly quicker than a TSX with the same K24 engine. But the content and interior space pales in comparison with very little difference in price. I'd buy a TSX over the ILX for those reasons.

 

I just have an 06 with the 5AT since new. As much as I like the styling and power of the TL and TLS, I just can’t give up my TSX for that. I like the upgrades with the 06-08 TSX models (wider seats, fogs, extra 12-15 HP, memory seats, updated frontend, Bluetooth, thicker steering wheel, M.I.D., updated Navi, etc…). It is the overall package that I like with the TSX that pushed me toward this car compared to the TL during time of purchase.

If power is high on your list, I think you can get the maxed out 07-08 6MT 3.5L V-6 TLS for $5,000-$8,000 cheaper than a 201hp 6MT ILX. I think the 3Gen TLs are the best looking out of all the gens.

 

I agree with everything you said about the reasons behind buying the car you have.

One question; on the list of upgrades in 06-08 models, you listed wider seats. I was not aware of that...are you talking about the front seats?

 

When I had 05 loaners when my 06 was in the shop, I've noticed the side seat bolster were more narrow on the 05 compared to my 06. I am 6'3" and about 300lbs and I notice the difference. Someone else might not feel the difference if you are 50-100lbs lighter. The 06 seats fit my 4'11" 126lbs wife just as well as me (memory seats are a must have with our cars).

Another plus is you can feel the extra 12-15hp of the 06-08 5AT TSX compared to the 04-05 5AT when I had the loaner. Unless you prefer the 04-05 body style, I would lean toward the 06-08 TSX (more bang for the buck with standard OEM MMC upgrades and with aftermarket parts).

 

Interesting.

I have to say, I love the seats, as well. My wife is quite a bit shorter than I am, too....and they are comfortable for both of us. (Yes, the memory seats are great for making that easier/quicker.)

Some other upgrades in 06-08: iPod hook-up under center armrest, lighter alloy wheels, (4 pounds per wheel; it adds up), and much improved trim on the dash...at least with the "wood"...more luxurious. Most people who ride in my car think they're real hunks of tree.

 

One thing I'll say about the Accord coupe, it looks very different than the sedan.

 

I had a 2004 Acura TL six speed for a year. I sold it for a 2007 TSX. The TL was too luxurious. Even with the A-Spec suspension I couldn't get connected to the car. It just wasn't there. It was a nice comfortable car, but nowhere near as fun as the TSX to drive, even with all of the extra power the TL has.

 

FOLLOW-UP POST:

So I went and bought....

<drumroll>

....a 2006 TSX! NBP with 6MT and Navi. It took me a long time to find the right one, but it was worth the wait.

I'm convinced I made the right choice-- the TSX is perfectly suited to my needs. Yeah, it gives up a little comfort to the TL, but the steering is scalpel-precise and it's such a nimble little beast. And you guys were right, the 06 feels palpably stronger than the 04-05. It's much torquier than the one I tested back in February. And that 2.4 four is so smooth-- like yacht rock smooth. No vibration from idle to redline, I swear it revs like a Wankel. (heh heh-- Wankel.)

I love it and so does my 2 y.o. daughter. Any time we step out into the front yard, the first words out of her mouth are "go ride Daddy new car?" So thanks for the input!

 

Congratulations! I wondered what you had decided.

Sounds like you have the same car that I have (NBP with 6MT)...and I love it, too. Interesting that you compared the engine's smoothness to the Wankel. I had an RX-7, and I agree, this engine is in the same league in that regard.

 

So glad you got the TSX.
I see a few more ILX's around on the highway lately. Coming up behind them at first glance looks like a mercedes/bmw mash-up, then as I pass them I see the Acura headlights.
ILX just confuses me Maybe it is the bmw shark like antennae.

 

congrats op. you chose wisely

now go out and enjoy the car!

 

Congrats and many miles of safe driving. Excellent choice, love my 06 tsx.

 

Congrats! Yes, its a great car!

With that said

 

TSX is unbalanced and handles like a boat.

JK, congrats on a smart choice. 1st Gen TSX has become quite the collectors item now for those who appreciate balanced performance with precise chassis dynamics!

 

Thanks! Yeah, I'm thrilled with my choice. Just got back from a 700 mi road trip, and it's as good to drive on a long highway journey as it is on back roads. I did a six hour leg from MA to MD yesterday and was perfectly comfortable the whole way. Amazed how good the ride is considering the handling. And I love the way the stereo and the climate control go mute when you make voice commands.

Photos attached by request. I've since taken better shots but they're on my computer at home, so these will have to do.

Just to clarify, I was never considering the ILX-- I just was offered a test drive when I was looking at a used TSX. I've wanted a 1G TSX since 2004 when I first read about it in Car and Driver, back when I was driving my old DA Integra.

Attachment 110699

 

Congrats, nice choice.