davidspalding

(From another thread)
Last night while doing some cleaning (exterior and interior) I diligently performed your "poke test" and saw exactly what you described. I apologize for my spurious skepticism. The vinyl indeed seems to stretch while the finished leather panels adjacent to the perforated panels wrinkle. I also noted that the entire front headrests seem to be finished leather, while only the front panels of the rear headrests are (again, based on the "poke test").

Do you happen to know about the door armrests? Not enough padding there for a poke to be conclusive....

jlukja

So, based on the "poke test", what is leather and what isn't?

PACman

All this time, I though the perforated parts were leather, and non-perf were vinyl. Not so?

davidspalding

I can pretty much confirm what CDR posted (both posts) in this thread (#37, #50). Colin had previously pointed me to some of these threads, which I hadn't read in great detail (who reads carefully at work? you can hurt yourself doing that) until today.

The back seat is kinda confusing, I was surprised to see the "wrinkling" on parts of the flip-down armrest, which would indicate finished leather. Extreme side panels and skirts of the rear seem to be vinyl.The rear headrests were a mix. The front headrests, IIRC, were all finished leather (I didn't check the bottoms of any headrests; does anyone care?).

In some of the previous threads on this topic, many people point to the perforated door panels being vinyl, which I can neither confirm or deny, but since it's the same style of material (in my 2006, at least) as the center seat facings, why use vinyl instead of leather? As far's I can tell, the door panels absorb Maguiar's leather wipe solution just fine (the same solution sticks and looks gucky on the vinyl panels). And I'm uncertain about the door arm rests. They appear to match the finished leather of the seat facings, but there's not enough padding to perform an adequate "poke test."

My steering wheel wrap, AT shifter cover, and parking brake boot all are unmistakably leather.

I'm still not 100% certain about all this because I've seen thin, top grain leather stretch a bit. Full grain, no. And I understand that the type of "finished leather" used in car upholstery is essentially a form of top grain. But poking the seats' side skirts and front seat back panels, you can pretty well see that it's stretchy like I'd expect vinyl to be. My skepticism of Colin's suggestion was clearly out of place.

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

lol.

i doubt i have the patience to apply this test to every panel and strip of covering inside the car.

i always thought the perforated sections were leather and accounted for these parts of the car--

-seat centers
-steering wheel
-shift knob
-perforated sections on doors

vinyl/pleather--
-everything else

now i don't know what parts should get my leather cleaner/conditioner again.

*covers everything with mother's*

davidspalding

Colin mentioned in a PM that the door insert panels are vinyl. Hmph.

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

wtf, are you serious?

all my leather pre-conceptions have been shattered.

Colin

Yes, the inserts on the doors are vinyl, but the arm rest pad (where your elbow would hit if you were adjusting the mirror) is leather.

davidspalding

I used the Maguiar's last night on the door insert panels, but not the door armrests (which I thought were thick vinyl).

TSX2345

Hmm What a waste all the Lexol I use on my interior

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

fyi, i randomly tried the poke test on the passenger front while warming up the car one day.

it does seem like the perforated centers, as well as the sides surrounding that area, all wrinkle up and would seem to be actual leather. i tried this on the headrest too, and i think those are partially leather as well.

it's hard to tell if the perforated panels on the doors are, since there isn't enough slack to really stretch it when you poke at it. but it seems a little too smooth and giving, so these might be vinyl, along with the sides/backs of the seats.

wstagner@yahoo.com

I'm having most of the pleather pieces in our 2 new TSX replaced with the real thing. I knew exactly what was leather before we purchased the cars. The "poke test" does work. We've done it on all of our previous cars.

Including the purchase of the hyde, this will cost approx $1500 and is being done locally in Oswego IL.

Leather matches exactly what's in the car. They ordered Acura parchment colour from http://www.eastcoastleather.com/

If anyone is intrested, I'll post some pix, including the pleather pieces.

The place that does the work likes the Gliptone leather conditioner. I've used Lexol and Eagle/Ottawa conditioner cleaner in previous leather interiors.

wstagner@yahoo.com

Prior to purchase I tried to learn which USA mfgr makes the TSX leather. Eagle/Ottawa makes it for the RDX and RL, Garden State Leather makes it for other models.

I couldn't find out who makes the leather but BOTH of these companies have a presence in Japan. In Acuras and Hondas from the 20th century, Eagle/Ottawa included a hang tag in the seats they made leather for.

The TSX leather smells like Eagle/Ottawa leather and yes....leather from different factories have unique smells.

Celtic FC

Okay, this is getting a little freaky! I can't imagine my wife's reaction to me poking & smelling my car seats!

wstagner@yahoo.com

Leather anything is all about the comfort, the feel AND the smell. Otherwise, we'll just buy vinyl everything.

When we toured the Eagle Ottawa factory some years back, we were told that Toyota/Lexus asked that as much of the leather smell be removed from the leather shipped to them. At that time, the Toyota Lexus leather felt very dry and stiff compared to what was used in the Hondas and Acuras.

20 years ago leather car interiors were rare. Now they're common in upscale cars.

Frankly, I find many of the mods people do to their TSXs to be a little "freaky".

But, to each their own.

davidspalding

Just curious ... why? Wear and longevity? Consistent feel? Prestige? No sarcasm intended.

After I bought the TSX, I realized that I could'a bought a Civic Si (which several posters seem to like) and have had the interior redone.

wstagner@yahoo.com

Thanks for asking.
I can't stand the feel/texture of the vinyl compared to the leather. Plus, psychologically it ruins the whole quality experience for me.

AND it bugs me that EVERY car mfgr that offers leather "cheaps out" by using vinyl and leather. They do it stricktly to save $.

One hyde is approx 54 sq feet and is more than enough to replace all the vinyl trim pieces on the front seats with some left over. The hyde is approx $300 and $1200 in labor for 2 cars is a good deal.

Yes, if you found someone locally to do the work you could get a cheaper car and have the seats recovered in leather.

There isn't a single aftermarket leather seat cover company on the web that does the entire seat in leather. They're as "bad" as the OEMs.

:-)

Feel free to ask me more questions. This is the 3rd time I've done this.

Walt

LukeaTron

Man that's a lot of work and money for something you hardly ever touch. Functionality is just too important to me to ever be able to justify such an expense. To each their own. I'd like to see it when it's done though.

wstagner@yahoo.com

I touch it every time I drive....and I can SEE it every time I get in the car. Is why it bugs me so much. It's not unlike listening to an inferior car stereo.

I will post pix. Yeah, is a lot of work for the guy DOIN the work. Is probly some illegal alien.

BTW, vinyl dries out too and needs to be "conditioned" along with leather. It gets dry/brittle and can tear. When it tears, only thing that prevents MORE tearing is a thin piece of gauzy material glued to the underside.

wstagner@yahoo.com

Here's a link to some pix. One of our cars and 2 pix showing some parts of the seats. I'm not showing the seatbacks here:

http://www.wstagner.com/band/tsx/

DLTSX6MT

have you confirmed if the armrests (doors and center) are leather? I think they are, but whatdoIknow?

jdmturtleracin

i poked the seat while my girlfriend was in it... i almost got slapped... try explaining yourself to a woman that you were testing the leather..

wstagner@yahoo.com

The door armrests and center armrest ARE leather.
Door panels (unlike the Accord V6) are not.

I only "poke" the seats when my wife is sitting in the seat, never with my gf sitting there.

LOL

bluexcrush

does it work on women also?

wstagner@yahoo.com

Depends on where you test.
Unlike the leather, I think we'd prefer our ladies NOT crinkle, eh?

However if they do, try some of the Lexol or Gliptone conditioner on them....LOL.

wstagner@yahoo.com

Our 1st TSX is has now had many of it vinyl panels replaced w/leather.

I'll post a link w/pix ASAP.

The people that did the work said the factory leather was as thick as the new leather. As you'll see in the pix, I think the new leather is even nicer than the original...looks, feels and the seat seems more comfortable.

I'm taking a lengthy drive later today, so more to follow.

Taterhole

This is freakin' ridiculous!

I'm a detailing nut with my bike, cars, trucks, everything. Now I'm wondering whether Lexol or Meguair's leather conditioner/cleaner is okay to use on all the seat parts, door panels, etc? Anyone have a clue? I don't want this interior to start looking like crap in a couple years because I'm slathering leather conditioner on vinyl or plastic.

LukeaTron

It's not going to hurt it. If you don't wipe it down afterwards like you're supposed to, you might get some oily buildup over time. The vinyl just won't absorb it, no biggie. You might want to put a product meant for vinyl on those parts.

hfkuan

HAHAHA thanks so much for the warning.

wstagner@yahoo.com

We're having our red 08 tsx done today.
Drove 100+ miles in the new leather interior. Although the installers told me the thickness/quality of the factory leather was good the replacement leather is definitely softer and has a much finer grain to it.

Seems that seats are more comfortable too, but it's probly my imagination.

More to follow when we get the red car back and pix of the process.

davidspalding

I did that ... before taking Colin's advice, I noted that some panels did not absorb the Maguiar's, and ... yep, those were pleather. Maguiar's Gold wipes on the true leather works good for me. I put it on, let it sit overnight, then wipe with a microfiber cloth the next morning.

wstagner@yahoo.com

See? Poking your leather is a good thing.
GF or wife in the seat? Even better!

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

you know what i really hate? when specks of stuff get stuck in the tiny perforated holes.

i really hate that.

wstagner@yahoo.com

I even eat in my car and I've not xperienced that....yet.

odannyboi

if she was your girlfriend, why should she care if you were going to give the "other" poke?

wstagner@yahoo.com

I think he was referring to the car....

wstagner@yahoo.com

Ok, both cars are finished.
Same link previously posted:

http://www.wstagner.com/band/tsx/

We did the seat sides and along the bottom on either side where vinyl was. We didn't do the backs, as that would take another hyde and I don't look or touch back there.

One of the hides was a little nicer than the other finish-wise but overall we're satisfied.

A few pieces of the original leather had to be replaced too so that the stitches for the new stuff would be perfect and I was fine w/that.

I also noticed that the bolsters seemed a little softer. Turns out was NOT my imagination. You can see, in several pics, the padding on the other side of the leather. The factory uses 1/8" (bluegreen color), these guys use 1/4".

For the $1700 it cost for BOTH cars, was worth it.
Any questions, feel free to ask.

Walt

LukeaTron

It looks very well done. I have no need at all to do anything like that but I'm sure you're enjoying it. Congrats.

wstagner@yahoo.com

I'm probly the ONLY one in the world crazy enough to do this, but I've learned to live w/maself!

davidspalding

I dunno that it's so crazy. Looks great, and you got a level of luxury that you wanted. $1700 for 2 cars, a fair price.

From what I can tell, you replaced the pleather there you can see/touch it ... and that can be a comfort, and a resale (if you do) bonus. And ... you mentioned that a couple of panels they used lighter leather on than what your shop replaced with ... that may account for some of the wear issues that older TSX' seats exhibit. So you've fixed a prblem before it occurs.

What I don't get (sort of in jest) ... is why you didn't have them go ahead and use a different pattern for the seat bottom and back? I'm not sure that perforated look is all that nice. "Okay" at best.