gogozy

octane display in Europe is different to N.A. 95 in EU is about 90 or 91 here.

gogozy

here is my 2 cent.. not trying to ofend anyone.. and i welcome suggestion
i use 87 or 89 in winter, and mostly 89 sometimes 91 in summer. i felt the word "Premium" in gas is very much like the word "light" in tobacco. as far as i know, premium gas does not necessary mean better quality, in fact, using higher than required octane cause poor MPG and loss power. if TSX's engine only required xx to maximize it's performance, then putting octane rating higher than xx will result in less mileage and power. worse; Sunoco 94 is ethanol blended... it mean even less mileage/power... and more importantly... high octant and ethanol fuel tend to contain less energy (in BTU) this translate to lower combustion temperature and one of nasty side effect is carbon deposit. unless the engine's compression is able to utilize such high octane, don't use it....
i don't have tool so i can only rely on my guess on what gas meet TSX's requirement. someone who has scan tool can probably tell if timming was retard with what gas under certain conditions.
however, i do feel using top tier supplier is more important than octane rating.

05_TSX_GP

Sorry to bring the news to you Canada is a pretty BIG place and there is no such 3 cents/L Thursday discounts here. With that at wherever you are, do gas stations even open on days other than Thursday?

Over here on the WEsT Coast, at least in the Vancouver area, gas stations have engaged in a 3.5 cents/L discount OFF the street signs for several months (or even longer?) now. It started when the big name gas stations decided to emulate what SuperStore (grocery chain) has been doing for years. SuperStore gives some cents/L (used to be 3, I think) grocery rebate in the form of a barcode on the gas receipt. The big boys decided to give "cash" rebate instead... so basically it's just marking the street signs price up by 3.5 cents if you ask me

05_TSX_GP

I don't disagree entirely but our views are slightly different:
I would use gas that meets minimum octane ratings all the time regardless of season
Using gas with higher than minimum shouldn't hurt MPG or power, it's just $ thrown away for paying for more than minimum

youngTL

However, there is a way that putting low octane in does cause problems. Do you know how the knock sensor works? It doesn't know that you put in low octane until the engine knocks! So once you've put 87 or 89 in, it's fine to keep using it. What's bad is constantly switching from 91 to low then back again and back down. Also, as you increase in engine speed, the compression in the cylinders exponentially increases, increasing the chance of pre-ignition proportionally.

Even my old 2.5TL with a 9.8:1 compression ratio suffers from less than 91 octane. It feels significantly more sluggish, and if i have to put less than 91 in (because 91 isnt available for wahtever reason) I take great care not to redline it.

On the other hand, you shouldn't be putting in higher than 91. It's a waste of money for no increase in performance or fuel economy. All high octane does is prevent predetonation. In the case of the V6 Accord, the 10 increase in horsepower is due to the engine advancing the timing. I haven't seen reports of the TSX doing this...

05_TSX_GP

Absolutely bang on!!! Knock sensor does exactly its name implies, it senses knocks (pre-igntion) taking place, then reacts to avoid further knocks. with the switching back and forth isn't so good.

I take it that you mean increasing engine speed increases the "stress" in the cylinders. Compression ratio is fixed regardless of what rpm the engine is at. However, at higher rpm, there are naturally more strokes per unit of time: more "compression" strokes, more ignitions, thus more chance of pre-ignition with lower octance gas.

youngTL

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. I was unclear. Statistically, the chances of preignition are much higher at high engine speeds.

Mokos23

BP 93 always for my TSX.

05_TSX_GP

nice to be in a conversation with someone who's on the same wave length Great minds think alike, haha...

RogerPodacter

I agree. But for me at least there arent any gas stations near me that carry exactly 91 octane. the choices are either 87, 89 or 93; sometimes 94. never has 91 exactly...

joerockt

I dont use anything but 91. Thats premimum here in Cali and thats what the manual says to use. I think your asking for trouble if you use anything less on a regular basis.

05_TSX_GP

I use Chevron here... they have 87, 89, 92 and 94 stuff... so 92 is what I use from them all the time. Even when I drive cross the border for shopping and stuff, I look for Chevron for gas still.

gogozy

that octane requirement also depend on other factors such engine load, temp , elevation, and perhaps others. for me, i put 87 or 89 because i know the weather is cool and i am not stressing it. if weather is very hot then i will definite have >89 in the tank..

DEVO

I would love to know why some people think higher octane gas means better... and lower octane gas is equated to garbage. This very thinking is why there are so many questions as to what gas to put into your car. Stop thinking lower octane gas means crap... and high octane gas = good stuff. It's not it at all. Put the correct rated octane gas in your car as described by the owner's manual. That's it.

gogozy

DateTSX

Over here in the New England area, we have nothing but 93. wish there a couple of place that have 91.

05_TSX_GP

on the part calling to "Put the correct rated octane gas in your car as described by the owner's manual. That's it."

I, for one, though don't think lower octane gas is garbage I was happily putting in 87 stuff in the RSX (non-S) we had.

so for putting in whatever the engine is designed to run with

gCHOW

i'd stick to premium..

what makes the tsx faster than, lets say.. the 4-cyl accord is a higher compression ratio. using a lesser octance rated fuel increases the chance of predetonation of the fuel, better known as engine knocking. this will lead to quicker wear on your engine..



PLUS.. treat your baby right! give her the good stuff!!

joerockt

Ummm, because it is? The higher the octane, the more refined it is. Dunno if its as dramatic a difference like tap water to bottle water...

05_TSX_GP

I won't use that analogy man...

tap water and bottle water are that much different... there was a 20/20 documentary or something like that on it just weeks ago.

joerockt

Yea, I didnt think it was that dramatic

dom

I used to only put in 94 due to the fact that Sunoco 94 ws the only gas in Canada that didn't contain MMT.

But as od Sept 04 MMT is no longer added to fuels in Canada so 91 it is.

05_TSX_GP

Damn... just saw my own typo/mis-type after seeing joerockt's reply...

It's supposed to read "tap water and bottle water are NOT that much different"... and I think lower vs higher octance gas (from same company) are NOT that much different either, but they are different enough that engines are built specifically with certain minimum octance target.

Is it me or are we repeating the same thing over and over here?!?
:beat_the_freaking_dead_horse:

05_TSX_GP

So no gas form any company/station in Canada contains MMT anymore?

What about Chevron stations in the US then? Any MMT in their gas? Like I said, I do get some gas from cross-border shopping trip once a while... mostly Burlington, WA or somewhere between that and Bellingham anyway. I choose and pick Chevron stations still...

dom

Actually Husky still does, not sure if you guys have them out west.

The US is MMT free and has been for some time.

05_TSX_GP

I never used Husky and not about to start... so I should be safe from MMT

sauceman

That is actually not quite correct. The TSX can handle 87 even with a 10.5 CR. What is the real cause for risk of engine knock is all the advance timing it has. Advanced timing tends to make the engine run hotter, and create the right conditions for pre-ignition. High compression alone is not a sufficient factor for knock most of the time in a TSX. And the reason why I say this, is that when the ECU detects knock, all it does is retard ignition, and problem is solved.

I used to have tons of knock on my F22B1 Accord, using 87 octane. It was because I had advanced my distributor and cam degree by a few increments. The knock wasn't caused by my relatively low 8.8CR.

savageTL

First, this is one of the biggest thread starters in online forums!

1. Premium gas has the same BTU content (assuming the same ethanol content if any) so MPG is the same, any variation from this is anecdotal, though many will argue this point forever, higher octane fuels are just formulated with more octane increasing agents which as a general rule have LESS BTU content, but it is a tiny amount when mixed

2. Premium is very rarely "better" gas, each manufacturer just adds their detergent/additive package to base gas and almost always uses the same amount/package for both grades. I say both grades because there is ONLY 2 grades of gas 87 and 93/94 all others are just mixes of the two, which the pump usually does at the point of sale. Everyone's base gas is the exact same Costco to BP. Gasoline is fungible, BP puts in 10000 gallons into the pipe line in New Orleans and pulls 10000 out in New York, that 10K gallons was not what they put in just a generic mix of anyones base gas.

3. It is interesting to see dyno charts on "91 octane recommended" cars. I have yet to see even a 10hp gain, usually only 4-5 and generally only near peak HP where retarded timing is an issue. It appears the "butt dyno" is biased too much by the "brain computer".

4. The start of preignition that the sensor requires to retard the timimg is so slight it will NOT cause damage to the engine. If damage occurs it is due to a problem with the system or inproper timing but your ears will notice it before any real damage happens.

5. Using the minimum REQUIRED octane fuel is always the most finacially prudent choice period, even if you have Gates money, anything else is false economy. The car is warrantied for 50k even if you use 87 octane, if it caused damage Acura would require 91, example my M3 requires 91 if you put anything less all manner of warning lights will awaken and the ECU will go into limp home mode.

6. The "best" fuel strategy (proffered by a couple of petro engineers) is to change manufacturers of fuel every 5000 miles or so. This is because of the different additive packages which may be better at one type of cleaning or another.

Enthusiasts of all ilks often spend (waste) money to make them feel better, if it makes you feel better spending the money for extra octane then by all means go ahead, it won't hurt and it is cheaper than most snake oil. For the 87 octane sippers feel comfort in the fact you are saving money, getting 97% of the performance, all of the milage and not hurting anything.

05_TSX_GP

the manual says 91 octance or higher, so that's what I stick with

kaikai114

No I don't use 91 or 93. I pour Corvoisier on bad days and Hennessey on friday nights




















91 all the way

DEVO

Right... my statement applies to those countries or areas that don't use MMT.

dom

I know, I wasn't responding to you although it may have seemed like it.

We've had this discussion before Devo

SpringsAcura

So let me see if I understand. Premium gas costs about 20 cents more per gallon than regular at 24 MPG average for 15,000 miles in a year, that means using premium will cost you $125 a year, or $10 a month.

You bought a $30,000+ car and you are gonna pinch pennies to save $10 a month? Maybe you shoulda bought a Mazda

My MDX gets straight premium.

05_TSX_GP

That's exactly why I stick with 91+ for the TSX. If I worry about the extra $10 or so a month, then I don't "deserve" a $30k+ car.

Having said that though, I will say that everyone has different set of values, so I am not about to rip those who do drive TSX but decides to run it with 87 stuff. Whatever makes them happy and it's true, that will not damage the engine - just not what I do to my TSX :2cent:

TSX 'R' US

nothing but 93 here

ZtotallynakedZ

Hate to break it to everyone but the only gas station that acutally has plus, super, premium, is sunoco. They are the only gas company that has its own oil refinary and pumps everything separatly from Louisana. The other companies do not and very infrequently get caught-it costs about 5k to test the tanks to make sure they are what they say they are. with that said, my car gets between 91 and 93 octane, depending on the market (my dad has his own storage gas tank and gets in it bulk)

MSZ

Some people just don't understand that. I have seen a LS430 owner asked "should I use regular gas?" before.

rich04

2004 acura tl auto and a 2002 sube wrx, they both see premiun, but not for the mistaken thinking that higher octane gives better milage. It doesn't! It a rating for the ease of ignition with the spark, the high compression of an acura engine and the low compression but higher pressure in a turbo demands the resistance to preignition (pinging) that could burn right through a piston is the reason.
Anyone spending extra on their ride like the acura or other hypos should spend a few bucks more for the proper gas.
Be cheep now and pax extra for more unnecessary engine repairs later.

Laugh

Hey, I'm ordering my TSX tomorrow and while you'd think I've got all the major decision taken care of I’m hedging on a major choice.

Five Speed Auto - or - Six Speed Manual

Post or email me your advice I need it quick.

Thx

Lane

sauceman

Please, stay with the topic. For your question, you can start a new thread, and also use it to introduce yourself to everyone here.