Consumer Reports and the TSX - High reliability and great resale value
03-12-2008, 12:52 AM
#1
Consumer Reports and the TSX - High reliability and great resale value
I was reading through CR's annual April Auto issue, and found several instances where the TSX shines in its ratings and reliability scores, even though its overall ranking doesn't make it a category leader.
Page 17 -- Honda (together w/Acura) is rated highest-ranked automaker based on a combination of vehicle test scores and reliability ratings: 78 out of 100. Toyota was second at 75, BMW was at 71, and tied for last were Suzuki and Chrysler.
Page 18 -- In a BCG-attractiveness matrix, Honda ranks highest based on the above factors. MB and VW rank higher in better vehicle test scores, but stumble badly on reliability.
Page 21 -- Honda ranks second to Toyota in vehicle reliability for model years 1998 to 2007. Its vehicles averaged about 70 problems per 100 vehicles after 10 years, compared to worst-rated VW with 175 problems per 100 vehicles.
Page 22 -- Acura TSX ranked 2nd behind the Lexus GS450h in highest reliability for the "Upscale/Luxury" vehicle class. The least reliable was the MB E-Class, followed by the BMW 5 series.
Also, Acura ranked 2nd behind Honda in average reliability scores across the model range. Acura had a mean average of 44% above average of other automakers. As comparison, BMW was 3% above average, VW -40% and Land Rover the lowest at -143%.
Page 25 -- Acura TSX ranks highest in the "Upscale" cars category for being least expensive to own over 5 years using factors of fuel, financing, miles driven, etc.
The TSX is estimated to cost $39.8k over five years, compared to the worst in the category, the MB C300 at $48.5k.
Page 33 -- The TSX ranks 10th in the $25-35k Sedan category with a score of 77. This is curious, as the Ford Fusion and even the VW Passat, with abysmal reliability, ranks higher. My sense is that the TSX was dinged for being an older model, its mediocre fuel economy, and its higher than average MSRP (despite all of its standard features).
Page 45 -- TSX is given a Top Recommendation for its combination of reliability and safety. Roughly on a 1-5 scale (5 is highest), reliability is 5, owner satisfaction is 4, and owner cost is 4.
Page 83 -- The TSX is rated as a top pick for a vehicle for teenagers, based on reliability and safety ratings.
Page 84 -- 04-06 TSXs are a top pick for used vehicles in ranges starting at $16k and up.
Page 86 -- In used car reliability, the TSX had outstanding scores. 05-07 verdicts were ranked with much fewer problems compared to other vehicles. The introductory 04 model was a notch lower.
Whew.....
When you piece all of the elements together, it validates the fact that the TSX remains one of the best choices for a well-rounded, safe, reliable and sporty car.
I post all this because often the TSX is benchmarked against other cars for a single element (like 0-60 mph times, mileage, AWD or RWD comparison, etc). But I think many of us buy it for what CR's research ultimately shows....the TSX provides one of the best, if not the best, combinations of value, performance and reliablity for its price point.
Page 17 -- Honda (together w/Acura) is rated highest-ranked automaker based on a combination of vehicle test scores and reliability ratings: 78 out of 100. Toyota was second at 75, BMW was at 71, and tied for last were Suzuki and Chrysler.
Page 18 -- In a BCG-attractiveness matrix, Honda ranks highest based on the above factors. MB and VW rank higher in better vehicle test scores, but stumble badly on reliability.
Page 21 -- Honda ranks second to Toyota in vehicle reliability for model years 1998 to 2007. Its vehicles averaged about 70 problems per 100 vehicles after 10 years, compared to worst-rated VW with 175 problems per 100 vehicles.
Page 22 -- Acura TSX ranked 2nd behind the Lexus GS450h in highest reliability for the "Upscale/Luxury" vehicle class. The least reliable was the MB E-Class, followed by the BMW 5 series.
Also, Acura ranked 2nd behind Honda in average reliability scores across the model range. Acura had a mean average of 44% above average of other automakers. As comparison, BMW was 3% above average, VW -40% and Land Rover the lowest at -143%.
Page 25 -- Acura TSX ranks highest in the "Upscale" cars category for being least expensive to own over 5 years using factors of fuel, financing, miles driven, etc.
The TSX is estimated to cost $39.8k over five years, compared to the worst in the category, the MB C300 at $48.5k.
Page 33 -- The TSX ranks 10th in the $25-35k Sedan category with a score of 77. This is curious, as the Ford Fusion and even the VW Passat, with abysmal reliability, ranks higher. My sense is that the TSX was dinged for being an older model, its mediocre fuel economy, and its higher than average MSRP (despite all of its standard features).
Page 45 -- TSX is given a Top Recommendation for its combination of reliability and safety. Roughly on a 1-5 scale (5 is highest), reliability is 5, owner satisfaction is 4, and owner cost is 4.
Page 83 -- The TSX is rated as a top pick for a vehicle for teenagers, based on reliability and safety ratings.
Page 84 -- 04-06 TSXs are a top pick for used vehicles in ranges starting at $16k and up.
Page 86 -- In used car reliability, the TSX had outstanding scores. 05-07 verdicts were ranked with much fewer problems compared to other vehicles. The introductory 04 model was a notch lower.
Whew.....
When you piece all of the elements together, it validates the fact that the TSX remains one of the best choices for a well-rounded, safe, reliable and sporty car.
I post all this because often the TSX is benchmarked against other cars for a single element (like 0-60 mph times, mileage, AWD or RWD comparison, etc). But I think many of us buy it for what CR's research ultimately shows....the TSX provides one of the best, if not the best, combinations of value, performance and reliablity for its price point.
03-12-2008, 01:11 AM
#2
JDM Addict
Well done.
I just bought my '08 last december.
I'll probably be done with modding it by the summer, then I'll
be looking at buying another car.
The one thing I don't like about the TSX is its lack of refinements.
So knowing that if I want more refinements, I'll have to pay quite
a bit more, I've been looking at BMW's 5's, Mercedes' E's, Infinity's M
and so on. But I just can't convince myself at all to take one of
those over an '08 RL.
Before I bought the TSX, I looked real hard at the 3's, the C class,
the G35, and the TL. All used for a couple/few years. But for the
price, I just couldn't get around the TSX and what it offers.
I try to find a better car all the time, I do lots of looking, but
nothing seems to stack up, and that report does show the worth
these cars hold.
Thanks for typing that all out for us.
I just bought my '08 last december.
I'll probably be done with modding it by the summer, then I'll
be looking at buying another car.
The one thing I don't like about the TSX is its lack of refinements.
So knowing that if I want more refinements, I'll have to pay quite
a bit more, I've been looking at BMW's 5's, Mercedes' E's, Infinity's M
and so on. But I just can't convince myself at all to take one of
those over an '08 RL.
Before I bought the TSX, I looked real hard at the 3's, the C class,
the G35, and the TL. All used for a couple/few years. But for the
price, I just couldn't get around the TSX and what it offers.
I try to find a better car all the time, I do lots of looking, but
nothing seems to stack up, and that report does show the worth
these cars hold.
Thanks for typing that all out for us.
03-12-2008, 06:08 AM
#4
Originally Posted by MMsTSX
Well done.
I just bought my '08 last december.
I'll probably be done with modding it by the summer, then I'll
be looking at buying another car.
The one thing I don't like about the TSX is its lack of refinements.
So knowing that if I want more refinements, I'll have to pay quite
a bit more, I've been looking at BMW's 5's, Mercedes' E's, Infinity's M
and so on. But I just can't convince myself at all to take one of
those over an '08 RL.
Before I bought the TSX, I looked real hard at the 3's, the C class,
the G35, and the TL. All used for a couple/few years. But for the
price, I just couldn't get around the TSX and what it offers.
I try to find a better car all the time, I do lots of looking, but
nothing seems to stack up, and that report does show the worth
these cars hold.
Thanks for typing that all out for us.
I just bought my '08 last december.
I'll probably be done with modding it by the summer, then I'll
be looking at buying another car.
The one thing I don't like about the TSX is its lack of refinements.
So knowing that if I want more refinements, I'll have to pay quite
a bit more, I've been looking at BMW's 5's, Mercedes' E's, Infinity's M
and so on. But I just can't convince myself at all to take one of
those over an '08 RL.
Before I bought the TSX, I looked real hard at the 3's, the C class,
the G35, and the TL. All used for a couple/few years. But for the
price, I just couldn't get around the TSX and what it offers.
I try to find a better car all the time, I do lots of looking, but
nothing seems to stack up, and that report does show the worth
these cars hold.
Thanks for typing that all out for us.
03-12-2008, 06:58 AM
#5
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Maximizing
My wife and I have owned about 9 Honda's between us. My first new car, bought with money from first real job, was a Civic Si. At time there were flashier cars with doodads for the money, but the fit and finish, fun to drive quality, and it looked good (to my eyes). I put 150k on that thing with costing me only for routine maintanence. When I married the my wife, our first major purchase as Civic sedan for her, the Cutlass she was driving couldn't be trusted. Our experience over the years has been the same -- everything works, there is a logic it layout and how it works, and it keeps working reliably year after year.
I sold a 10 year old Civic Coupe Ex to buy a "grown-up" car with four doors, figuring I was at stage in life where my friends weren't willing (able?) to contort themselves to squeeze in the back of my car. The choice was among which Honda products. The Accord was my leading choice, but then I drove the TSX and feel in love. All of what I'd expected from a Honda coupled with a super fun to drive element (great shifting, good acceleration, great stabity through corners). It is also my first luxury car, great sound system, many helpful features and navigation. Since September '03 I've had nothing break that wasn't under warrenty and no more expenses than routine maintainence.
Just what I expected. Good to see Consumer Reports agrees with me.
I sold a 10 year old Civic Coupe Ex to buy a "grown-up" car with four doors, figuring I was at stage in life where my friends weren't willing (able?) to contort themselves to squeeze in the back of my car. The choice was among which Honda products. The Accord was my leading choice, but then I drove the TSX and feel in love. All of what I'd expected from a Honda coupled with a super fun to drive element (great shifting, good acceleration, great stabity through corners). It is also my first luxury car, great sound system, many helpful features and navigation. Since September '03 I've had nothing break that wasn't under warrenty and no more expenses than routine maintainence.
Just what I expected. Good to see Consumer Reports agrees with me.
03-12-2008, 07:07 AM
#6
it's a car-drive it
i also have read the april issue of consumer's reports- Hyundai made the top 10-Besides my 06 tsx which I think is a excellent car I also own a 05 Hyundai Elantra Gt with almost 75,000 miles on it. It also is a excellent car with no problems (knock-on-wood) I am sorry to say that our 05 civic ex-se had many annoying problems-we sold it-great resale.
03-12-2008, 10:45 AM
#7
Make a hole, coming thru!
Originally Posted by kixo
I was reading through CR's annual April Auto issue, and found several instances where the TSX shines in its ratings and reliability scores, even though its overall ranking doesn't make it a category leader.
I continue to harp on the fact that as a total car purchase, the TSX is highly rated for VALUE, even though it may be bhind competitors in specific details. Oh, and for driving around commuting, or after hours, it's providing me loads of fun. That's why CR subscribers like me are singing its praises.
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03-12-2008, 12:25 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by MMsTSX
The one thing I don't like about the TSX is its lack of refinements.
03-12-2008, 01:01 PM
#9
Berserker (+9)
Originally Posted by wackura
I've never understood that is meant by refinements. Is that an object or subjective measure? What indicates a lack of refinement?
03-12-2008, 01:54 PM
#10
JDM Addict
Originally Posted by kjamsf
It's just his snobby way of saying "Hey, fellas, I'm high maintenence!"
nice one, I laughed pretty good.
"refinements" have nothing to do with price really.
Well they do, what I mean is...
Yes, for the price, the TSX offers lots of refinements.
But if you get into an RL or a TL for that matter, or several other
luxury cars, you'll see more, well, stuff.
More trim and accents (around speakers, in dash, buttons, window screens,
folding down door pockets, blah, blah, blah.)
Stuff that really doesn't mean too much to most folks.
Better leather, better dash materials, a bit more design, trim on stuff.
So yeah, maybe that could be called high maintenence.
Just the little things.
The RL has a bunch of that sort of stuff.
See, here's the deal:
Before buying the TSX, the RL is the car I wanted to buy, if not, the TL.
Or maybe another luxury car from another maker.
So I "settled" for a new TSX because I couldn't find a used TL or RL with
low miles that was a "reasonable" price to me. Buying new just seemed like
the better choice.
It was worth it, the TSX is a super great car, but it doesn't have the gadgets
that cars with much higher price tags have.
So for the price, yes, the TSX is unbeatable, but if I up the price to get an RL,
then I'll be happy with all of my refinement junk.
That's the plan anyway. I'll mod this TSX, then go buy an 06-08 RL.
And I'll be happy all over.
03-13-2008, 01:31 AM
#11
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I'm confident in saying that none of us owners are surprised by this CR report. Anyone who's purchased or thought of purchasing the TSX must see the great value this car has to offer and reliability goes without saying coming from Honda/Acura.
...Still it's always nice to get some validation from the "experts."
...Still it's always nice to get some validation from the "experts."
03-13-2008, 08:48 AM
#13
Make a hole, coming thru!
Indeed, Jsiu. I don't think that some of the contributors to the 2009 TSX news thread understand that if you drop in a V6 (or turbo), add HP, AWD or SH-AWD, blah blah blah, then push the price to the $33K-35K range (where there are other competitors with similar specs, at a close price point), the TSX loses it's advantage (more like "win the race") against the similar Lexus, BMW, Audi, VW, Mercedes models on the price/value equation. Sure it's nice having a TSX that's closer in makeup to those cars, but then it wouldn't be competitive in price. I'm sure CR would rate it a bit lower saying something like, "comparable to [the others], but no longer a great bargain for what you get ... for the money, you could get [insert name of Euro make]." Just my two yen.
03-13-2008, 09:50 AM
#14
"Page 83 -- The TSX is rated as a top pick for a vehicle for teenagers?"
How about a Porsche 911 turbo? My top vehicle pick when I was a teenager was the 1987 Mercury Topaz. Of course I only had one vehicle to choose from. Man kids these days are driving TSX? Hope they pick up chicks
How about a Porsche 911 turbo? My top vehicle pick when I was a teenager was the 1987 Mercury Topaz. Of course I only had one vehicle to choose from. Man kids these days are driving TSX? Hope they pick up chicks
03-13-2008, 11:36 AM
#16
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by davidspalding
Indeed, Jsiu. I don't think that some of the contributors to the 2009 TSX news thread understand that if you drop in a V6 (or turbo), add HP, AWD or SH-AWD, blah blah blah, then push the price to the $33K-35K range (where there are other competitors with similar specs, at a close price point), the TSX loses it's advantage (more like "win the race") against the similar Lexus, BMW, Audi, VW, Mercedes models on the price/value equation. Sure it's nice having a TSX that's closer in makeup to those cars, but then it wouldn't be competitive in price. I'm sure CR would rate it a bit lower saying something like, "comparable to [the others], but no longer a great bargain for what you get ... for the money, you could get [insert name of Euro make]." Just my two yen.
What do you NOT GET in a 30K Accord Sedan V6 that you get in a 30K 08 TSX?
The only thing that comes to mind are xeons.
I'm not a proponent for a V6. But to suggest that adding one will drive up the price by 5K is just incorrect IMO. And the Accord sedan proves that. It has everything the TSX has and in some cases more but costs the same. $30,260 vs $30,290 for a TSX.
EDITED for pricing.
to that ^, The new Altima is also 30k pricing with a 3.5L V^ pushing 270HP and it matches every feature the TSX has and more. Plus the coupe is nice
03-13-2008, 01:53 PM
#18
Make a hole, coming thru!
I'm making fun of the guys who want the TSX to match the cars that cost a few thousand more.
As for comparison with the Accord, nolo contendere, though the Accord is built here, the TSX abroad,... and the Accords that I drove didn't have the fit & finish that TSXes did. Purely my impression from driving 2 cars of each line. Also, that Accord V6 for the same price (roughly) gets worse mileage. So I'll take your word for it, a V6 oughtn't drive the price up, though it would be a foreign-built V6.
[troll]Gee, maybe I shoulda got a CPO Altima with a V6.... [/troll] (David falls out of his seat looking up the Altima V6's gas mileage) Actually, no joking, CR likes the 2002 and 2007 Altimas.
BTW, this page (open to non-subscribers, I hope) lists most of the current Acuras and the Hondas under "the Best Of the Best."
As for comparison with the Accord, nolo contendere, though the Accord is built here, the TSX abroad,... and the Accords that I drove didn't have the fit & finish that TSXes did. Purely my impression from driving 2 cars of each line. Also, that Accord V6 for the same price (roughly) gets worse mileage. So I'll take your word for it, a V6 oughtn't drive the price up, though it would be a foreign-built V6.
[troll]Gee, maybe I shoulda got a CPO Altima with a V6.... [/troll] (David falls out of his seat looking up the Altima V6's gas mileage) Actually, no joking, CR likes the 2002 and 2007 Altimas.
BTW, this page (open to non-subscribers, I hope) lists most of the current Acuras and the Hondas under "the Best Of the Best."
03-13-2008, 05:20 PM
#19
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^ I didn't know gas mileage was such a big factor, if it is such in your ones' eyes, then the consumer would have went for the 4 cylinder versions of the Accord and Altima. And I don't really get your troll comment, but I hope it wasn't aimed at me cause I love my TSX. I was just merely mentioning the fact that there are cars out there that fit the description of 30k with more "umph" than the TSX.
Also what is bad gas mileage to you? The TSX claims a 20/28 while the 4 cylinder versions of the Accord and Altima return 21/31 and 23/31 respectively. Then the V6's of both return 19/29 and 19/26 respectively.
All these gas mileages to me seem very good. Especially if I trade 1-2 mpg for 70+ hp and 100+ lb/ft of torque.
Note: These numbers were all from the automatic equipped versions of the cars.
Also what is bad gas mileage to you? The TSX claims a 20/28 while the 4 cylinder versions of the Accord and Altima return 21/31 and 23/31 respectively. Then the V6's of both return 19/29 and 19/26 respectively.
All these gas mileages to me seem very good. Especially if I trade 1-2 mpg for 70+ hp and 100+ lb/ft of torque.
Note: These numbers were all from the automatic equipped versions of the cars.
03-14-2008, 09:05 AM
#20
Make a hole, coming thru!
Abbreviated answer ... Firefox crashed (it happens a lot on Linux).
No, wasnt' "directing" at you ... the CR report on the Altima is pretty good, I didn't look at it because I zeroed in on highest recommended cars, great mileage, and was looking at the RSX and slid over to the TSX after driving an RSX (and seeing CR's outstanding recommendations re: the TSX).
What is bad mileage? Varies from person to person. CR doesn't just parrot the EPA estimated mileage, they measure during their road tests -- city, highway, "best" (150 mile road trip), and average for the whole test. So you may see very comparable EPA estimates, but CR's road test mileage figures can be telling.
FWIW, the 2006 Accord V6 numbers came in close to the 2004 TSX I4 numbers. The Altima V4 ... about the same, but the 2002 Altima V6, ewww, stinks ... 25mpg on the road trip, avg of 20 on the test (Accords and TSXs measured 25mpg average on their whole tests).
Yep, another good reason to subscribe to CR online or on paper (I prefer online). LOADS of information.
No, wasnt' "directing" at you ... the CR report on the Altima is pretty good, I didn't look at it because I zeroed in on highest recommended cars, great mileage, and was looking at the RSX and slid over to the TSX after driving an RSX (and seeing CR's outstanding recommendations re: the TSX).
What is bad mileage? Varies from person to person. CR doesn't just parrot the EPA estimated mileage, they measure during their road tests -- city, highway, "best" (150 mile road trip), and average for the whole test. So you may see very comparable EPA estimates, but CR's road test mileage figures can be telling.
FWIW, the 2006 Accord V6 numbers came in close to the 2004 TSX I4 numbers. The Altima V4 ... about the same, but the 2002 Altima V6, ewww, stinks ... 25mpg on the road trip, avg of 20 on the test (Accords and TSXs measured 25mpg average on their whole tests).
Yep, another good reason to subscribe to CR online or on paper (I prefer online). LOADS of information.
03-14-2008, 03:46 PM
#21
it's a car-drive it
[QUOTE=dom]What do you NOT GET in a 30K Accord Sedan V6 that you get in a 30K 08 TSX?
The only thing that comes to mind are xeons.
WARRANTY-HONDA ACCORD -36,000 MILES OR 3 YEARS
ACURA TSX 50,000 MILES OR 4 YEARS
The only thing that comes to mind are xeons.
WARRANTY-HONDA ACCORD -36,000 MILES OR 3 YEARS
ACURA TSX 50,000 MILES OR 4 YEARS
03-15-2008, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kixo
Page 83 -- The TSX is rated as a top pick for a vehicle for teenagers, based on reliability and safety ratings.
03-16-2008, 06:12 AM
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Nowt wrong with owning a TSX <20
I didn't personally, changed to my TSX at 20 after running my Civic Type-R for 3 years.
Just really wanted to move to something that I wasn't going to kill myself in.
That and they look so damn good...
I didn't personally, changed to my TSX at 20 after running my Civic Type-R for 3 years.
Just really wanted to move to something that I wasn't going to kill myself in.
That and they look so damn good...
06-21-2013, 08:36 PM
#25
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after owning my then new 06 TSX...
I'm still going strong... well, my TSX is anyway 
Ｈａｖｅｎ’ｔ ｐｏｓｔｅｄ ｆｏｒ ａｗｈｉｌｅ！
I have about 77k miles on it now and NOT A SINGLE ISSUE (just normal maintenance expenses)... I just recently went ahead and did the 60,000 miles (at about 75k) and changed my OEM brake pads after owning it for 6.5yrs! I could've stretched the pads (there were still about 25% left) but since I live 1.5hrs away from the nearest Acura dealer, I went ahead and changed it...
I also changed my tires from OEM Michelines to Bridgestone's Turanzas (sporty)... my only major expenses! Again, could've lasted another year, but since my wife drives it more so now (she's commandeered it) and I drive her Murano, figured, better be safe than sorry. Chalk me down as one VERY SATISFIED owner... KEEP UP THE GREAT QUALITY ACURA!
Ｈａｖｅｎ’ｔ ｐｏｓｔｅｄ ｆｏｒ ａｗｈｉｌｅ！I have about 77k miles on it now and NOT A SINGLE ISSUE (just normal maintenance expenses)... I just recently went ahead and did the 60,000 miles (at about 75k) and changed my OEM brake pads after owning it for 6.5yrs! I could've stretched the pads (there were still about 25% left) but since I live 1.5hrs away from the nearest Acura dealer, I went ahead and changed it...
I also changed my tires from OEM Michelines to Bridgestone's Turanzas (sporty)... my only major expenses! Again, could've lasted another year, but since my wife drives it more so now (she's commandeered it) and I drive her Murano, figured, better be safe than sorry. Chalk me down as one VERY SATISFIED owner... KEEP UP THE GREAT QUALITY ACURA!
06-22-2013, 03:59 PM
#26
it's a car-drive it
I'm still going strong... well, my TSX is anyway Ｈａｖｅｎ’ｔ ｐｏｓｔｅｄ ｆｏｒ ａｗｈｉｌｅ！
I have about 77k miles on it now and NOT A SINGLE ISSUE (just normal maintenance expenses)... I just recently went ahead and did the 60,000 miles (at about 75k) and changed my OEM brake pads after owning it for 6.5yrs! I could've stretched the pads (there were still about 25% left) but since I live 1.5hrs away from the nearest Acura dealer, I went ahead and changed it...
I also changed my tires from OEM Michelines to Bridgestone's Turanzas (sporty)... my only major expenses! Again, could've lasted another year, but since my wife drives it more so now (she's commandeered it) and I drive her Murano, figured, better be safe than sorry. Chalk me down as one VERY SATISFIED owner... KEEP UP THE GREAT QUALITY ACURA!
Ｈａｖｅｎ’ｔ ｐｏｓｔｅｄ ｆｏｒ ａｗｈｉｌｅ！I have about 77k miles on it now and NOT A SINGLE ISSUE (just normal maintenance expenses)... I just recently went ahead and did the 60,000 miles (at about 75k) and changed my OEM brake pads after owning it for 6.5yrs! I could've stretched the pads (there were still about 25% left) but since I live 1.5hrs away from the nearest Acura dealer, I went ahead and changed it...
I also changed my tires from OEM Michelines to Bridgestone's Turanzas (sporty)... my only major expenses! Again, could've lasted another year, but since my wife drives it more so now (she's commandeered it) and I drive her Murano, figured, better be safe than sorry. Chalk me down as one VERY SATISFIED owner... KEEP UP THE GREAT QUALITY ACURA!
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