mmart6545

I am considering a TSX for my next vehicle. Exterior color is based on availability, interior: ebony, navi, 6 speed.

I am getting ready to ditch my 2000 Audi A4 with 300whp. I am looking for something more reliable, and I want some of the new technology available in the Acura.

I am looking to lease. For a 3 yr/15k lease the residual is 57% and the money factor is .00288. This makes the lease payments about the same price as a $38kmsrp Audi A4 and a $37k G35 Sedan. The lease payment was almost the SAME as a TL. The money factor on the G35 is .00015! Its a STEAL, but I'm not really in love with the car. I want the TSX over the G35.

The dealer says the 2007s are about a week away and they expect a special on the TSX's to bring the money factor back to something reasonable.

My questions:
Is the dealer trying to rip me off? Seems like the numbers work with such a high money factor, but why is it so high? Does the TSX really lease this terribly?

Any experience you care to share is greatly appreciated.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Tell your dealer to drop dead. A 0.00288 money factor converts to roughly 6.9% APR. Tell your dealer you will settle for nothing more than a money factor of 0.001625 (3.9% APR roughly) and see what he does.

When I negotiated the lease on my 2004 TSX, I didn't even give the dealers a chance to screw me on the money factor. I went in knowing exactly how much I was willing to pay, down to the slightest detail. I presented my optimal lease to the sales rep over the phone and he didn't even bother arguing with me. Oftentimes the best deal gets made because you've already settled on it.

The lower money factor should drop your payments a fair amount.

mmart6545

Thats exactly what I did, however they said they couldnt do it. I said I was ready to do the deal at a far lower money factor, but they told me they didnt have room to budge. The money factor was 4.5x what infiniti and 3x the audi dealer.

This dealer had 60 06 TSX's on the lot. You'd think theyd be ready to move the 06s and make room for the 07's.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

They're lying. There's always room to budge. And with 60 cars on the lot, that's a stupid decision letting a customer walk away from the negotiating table without a car. My suggestion is to start looking for another dealer, if that option is available to you.

mlb11

mmart6546, I have had the same experience lately. They will negotiate on price for the TSX, but will not budge on the MF. The MF I was given was 0.00290 with no security deposit. I'm currently leasing an '04 accord v6 coupe and the much lower money factor on the honda saved me about $50 a month on a 36 month lease. I am hoping you are right in that Acura will lower the MF on the 06's once the 07's arrive. I think they should since in the Chicago area, the current inventory of TSXs is hovering around 170 vehicles on the lot!

mmart6545

Well, at least it is consistent. You should look at other brands. I ended up pulling the trigger on a GTI. It was more of a drivers car, which is something I desire.

chimchim

DO NOT LEASE - the only reason to ever lease is a car would be if you MUST have a new car every 2 years. Leasing (for personal use) is absolutely stupid - a huge waste of your financial resources. If you cannot afford the normal finance payment, then buy a USED TSX or say the heck with it and get a Civic. Trust me, do not LEASE - terrible financial move.

SoCaliTrojan

I agree...leasing is for someone who wants something new every couple of years, or wants to drive something more expensive than they can actually afford. It's basically like renting the vehicle from the dealer. They impose restrictions on you...you can only drive a certain amount of miles, and you have to keep it in tip-top shape inside and out or else they'll charge you.

Buying is a better choice...your payments go into owning a car. It's like renting an apartment versus buying a condo (except that a car depreciates in value whereas a condo increases in value). You won't have to worry about the hassle of getting another car in a couple of years, and you'll always have a vehicle you can depend on.

Now if you already have a primary car and you have the money for a weekend vehicle, then that's up to you. I know some people that pour most of their salary into a leased car just so they can claim that they drive it

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

DO NOT POST if you're not going to post something that contributes to the discussion. The OP did not ask for your opinion on leasing, he asked for people to share leasing experiences. You clearly have no experience leasing so please keep your OPINIONS to yourself if they are not what the OP asked to hear.

cibs

1 - to what CGTSX said
2 - clearly you don't have a financial background, so you don't know all of the benefits that leasing has over financing. It depends alot on your situation, not just if its for personal use or not. but that whole thing is for another thread.



OP - i'm surprised that your dealer doesn't want to negotiate with you, because that rate is unreal, have you tried visiting other dealers in your area? or asking for online quotes? or perhaps the lease calculators avail. on the acura site?

The dealer could just be waiting to get you to buy at month end or maybe they've made thier quota and want you to buy at month beginning.... either way something's not right there...

jwood_06TSX

One, something is def wrong because if they honestly have 60 cars on that lot, they would def want to move on a car and quickly at that. I would go back to the dealer and try talking to some one else and see if they can make it move. Maybe something was up with that sales person....who knows but something is up.

Two, why exactly aren't you in love with the G35, especially at that price? Don't get me wrong, i love the TSX a lot, but those new 2007 G35 sedans and coupes are just amazing to me with the increase horsepower yet again among other things. Obviously that is just my opinion and no else has to agree, but that is a GREAT MF too!!! Just curious..

chimchim

I believe my comments significantly contributed to the discussion, for leasing is a major financial blunder. Why motivate someone to throw money away when he can OWN a vehical with no mileage restrictions...

Also, I possess strong experience in leasing for I've created several financial models for both personal/business entities in regards to leasing assets, such as automobiles and equipment.

For personal use, it makes no sense UNLESS someone is paying the bill (i.e. your customer (self-employed) or your company).

But then again, what the heck, lease it for less every month and love it.....you only live once.

mlb11

mmart6545,

Sorry to hear you bought a GTI. If you actually haven't yet, maybe you can be talked out of it. I leased a golf gls in 2002 and turned it in 20 months early! In the short time I had the car it was recalled 3 times and I had it in the shop two more times. All items were fairly minor, but it got to be a real pain. VWs are strange, they look and feel like they are well made, but their mechanical components constantly break down.

I had hondas from 1987 until the golf and swore I would never leave the honda brand again!

From what I can tell the MF that Acura is using is set by Acura and not the dealerships (this off of edmunds) so they just can't deal on it....given what you mentioned, I'm hoping they may lower the MF like they did on the acura TL 24 month lease earlier this year. That MF was like .00136

Thanks to all for the advice on leasing, but like the moderator said, this is not the discussion. I have leased for 7 years now and will never buy again. I always sell my lease turn ins to carmax and make enough for my next downpayment. This way I put little to nothing down and get a car every three or so years. This is what I like and I realize it may not be for everyone.

cibs

just ONE of the many reasons your wrong is that leasing is smart if you can put the difference in money into something that earns a higher % rate than your finance rate.

There is no absolute bottom line right or wrong answer to the leasing vs. financing debate.

The question could be asked why would you want to 'invest' your money into a depreciating asset? as a rule of thumb you lease depreciating assests (cars, equipement) and purchase appreciating assets (real property, etc.)



but again we're off topic....

simplyscion

I leased this car for 3 years mainly cause I get very tired of my cars quickly...the last 2 cars that I financed I owned each for less than 2 years. Plus a buddy of mine works at the Acura dealership and I was able to get a steal on my lease with only having to put down my first months payment and dmv fees. Plus I dont drive more than 15k miles per year usually because i have the bike also so leasing for me actually makes sense.

Vividi

The full article is at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/p...chTerm=leasing

mmart6545

I didnt come for a lesson in finance. I'm doing just fine in that department. The question was about the money factor and why is it so high on the TSX, a car which should have a reasonably high residual.

mmart6545

The 2007 wasnt for sale yet. It was a demo.

The g35 was too boring. Plus, the insurance was higher because of the 300 hp. It didnt "jump" at me, thats all.

mmart6545

Well, I'm a huge vw/audi fan, so...

They have a particular feel/drive to them that I'm partial too, thats all. Plus, the DSG transmission is way cool...

chimchim

Keep telling youself that leasing is a good idea.....I know you are only 23 - but I suggest you read, "the richest man in babylon" - by George S Clason. This book is REQUIRED reading by all HARVARD MBAs.

Leasing is exactly why people are drowning in debt - totally DUMB is almost every instance except for business use. Just ask Clark Howard. - www.clarkhoward.com - National Consumer Advocate.

See you in Maui at age 55.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Knock off the leasing vs. financing debate. This is not the place for it. Next person that brings it up in this thread will cause it to be locked.

badstsx

There is never room to budge on a money factor or residule. The banks set them, not the dealership. It all depends how your credit is. There is also a reason why mercedes, bmw,audi etc. has better lease programs. Its because they have so much on the ground and they cant get rid of them. The bank sets the money factor and residule value at a great number just to move there cars. I would know

mmart6545

Thats funny because your theory is the antithesis of whats happening out there. I've been car shopping for the past month.

Acura has over 60 TSX's on the ground. Infiniti had about 20. The money factor at the infiniti dealer was a fraction of acura, yet they had far less cars available.

Also, there is "room to budge" on money factor. Most dealers work their profit into the money factor, so they increase the rates on top of the bank.

The same goes with BMW...they had less than 10 3 series on the lot. Their money factor was in the middle, but the residual was HIGH. Their cars really retain their values well, thus the really great lease programs.

I live in an area where dealers are making deals. The largest porsche dealer, (in the world) largest lexus dealer, largest infiniti dealer, and largest acura dealer are all within 10 minutes of my house.

I might believe you are in car sales, but your "residule" knowledge doesnt make you an authority....

duke11

Would someone please explain this "money factor" to me........I've never heard this before. I've only ever read about interest rates....1.9%...6.9% etc.

mlb11

The money factor is the same thing as the interest rate. To get to the interest rate from the money factor multiply it by 2,400. For example a money factor of 0.0029 equals an interest rate of (.0029 x 2400) = 6.96%

This, by the way is the current Acura money factor that I hope they'll lower in November. ;-)

badstsx

Yeah, obviosuly you dont know what your talking about. because you dont do this crap every day. stop mis representing and get your facts straight.

mlb11

badstsx,

What is your guess on Acura's money factors - do you think they will drop them in November for either the 2006 TSX or TL?

Thanks.

duke11

O.K ...I understand that if you multiply the money factor by 2400 you get the percent rate. But how did you get the money factor?? In Canada they just advertise the percent rate, for instance, the lease rate right now on the tsx is 3.8% for 48 months.

Maybe you could dumb this down a bit for me lol

D3MTRSPT

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www.d3motorsports.com

mlb11

duke11,

Typically here in the states the money factor is what we are given and not the interest rate. To be honest I don't know why they do it this way other than to make the rate sound better than it actually is...? I've been told the money factor is set by the lease company (either the manufacturer or a bank) and that dealers will sometimes add to it in order to turn a profit.

Someone else will have to dumb that one down for both of us!

Milton TSX

Sorry but I wouldn't count on Consumer report to give any non bias opinion I have worked for companies that have built product for sears with the Kenmore name badge and CR gave it a great rating! Yet the exact copy of the product built for someone else got a less than favorable rating... consumer reports is a load of crap

badstsx

Well, the 2007 models should arrive anytime this week. Usually when a brand new year comes out they dont have any specials. Im guessing if the 06's are still on the ground in november it might get a little bit better. But here is the thing. Dealerships deal with more than one bank in leasing. U.S. bank and wells fargo usually have good rates. But with leasing it all depends on the credit.

mlb11

badtsx,

Thanks for the insights! I'm now wondering why I was not offered a more competitive MF and residual from another bank by the dealer? Instead he said we can't do anything with these values because they are set by Acura. Is there an advantage to them going through Acura finance and not US Bank or Wells Fargo?

Thanks!

mmart6545

The MF and residual in my initial post was through US bank for 720+ fico credit, not acura