Winterwaves

Got a quote from what looks like a very reputable dealer (Ultimate Auto Care in Placentia, CA) for a clear bra install for $665 for the whole works including the extended bumper on my OEM underbody kit.

Seems in the ballpark with other quotes I've seen, running around $590 - $700. Whaddaya think?

I think I might do this; it really seems like good insurance. Thanks to this forum again. I would never have even been aware of these if not for reading here.

PsychoInDenial

Sounds about right, are you getting the headlights done too? I got mine quoted for the basic kit for $595 without the lights, with the lights $625.

arch

Check and see what brand and warranty they are offerring for that price.

Winterwaves

Yes, this includes the headlights and fog lights. It's XPEL brand, and it comes with a 5-year warranty and $1000 paint protection guarantee.

afici0nad0

for the quotes you got, how much clear bra is applied on the hood? 1/3rd of the hood?

man, i thought clear bras were like $300CAD, thats like ~$250US, for side mirrors, front bumper, and like 1/3rd of the hood.

Swiftoy

The hood kit for the TSX is no bigger than 18 inches up the hood. If your car is white I do not recommend using the 3M film as there have been yellowing issues. Since my own car is pearl white and I am an installer I have run into this problem.

Xpel is the maker of the software for the kits. Xpel exclusively endorses the 3M film brand. Any one sold on the $1000PPF gaurantee should really read the fine print carefully. It is more of a way for them to market the product.

If anyone has any questions please ask since there is a lot of misconception about the films available on the market or clear bras in general. Or if you have any application questions.

Brian
Central Valley Clear Bra

Winterwaves

I assume, then, that this means that the clear bra always yellows to some extent. It's just more noticeable on a pure white vehicle.

But if it is even noticeable a little bit on a colored vehicle (for instance, my blue one), then I'm not sure if I want it either. I want NO discoloration, 100% clear and unnoticeable.

PsychoInDenial

Its only on the white that it yellows. You shouldn't have any problem with the blue.

Winterwaves

Well, that doesn't seem to make sense. The only way that I can figure that it would only yellow when on white paint is that white reflects the sun more than blue, so it would reflect back up through the clear bra layer and cause it to yellow at a faster rate than if it were on blue or black paint.

But regardless, it seems logical to me that if a clear bra yellows over time on a white car, then it's going to yellow over time on ANY car. The only differences would be that the rate of yellowing might be faster on a white car, and the yellowing would be more noticeable against a white background. But the yellowing is still happening regardless. True?

PsychoInDenial

I'd check with Brian... anyone else here have a logical explaination for it?

Swiftoy

Winterwaves, I totally see what you are saying and to some degree what you are saying is true. It only becomes noticeable on white and it is the adhesive 3M uses that causes this effect. Does it turn yellow like the little smiley faces NO! Against a white background it is not 100% clear. That is why I have started to move away form 3M until they remedy the problem. I have been using Averys new top caoted or clear coated film in which the clarity is excellent the effect on dark colored vehicles is way better ie. the orange peel effect, and is a much more pliable film, which makes the film more resistant to impacts. 3M was the only film out there up until about 6 months or so ago that had a clear coat. They are aware of the adhesive yellowing problem and are back at the drawing board again to fix a number of issues. Remember this the film is warrantied for 5 years if it does yellow, peel, crack etc. it gets replaced and this is why it is important to find an installer that stands behind there work. The Avery film I use I warranty for 7 years. If any dealer tells you that any of these films are perfect there not. Show me something that is and I will point out something that is not. That is why you have a warranty. I personally would and will have this on any car going forward because of how well the product works against chips, bug stains etc. I have had this on my car for 14 months and 26k miles and NO CHIPS!

The bottom line is we all know how easy the TSX and other Acura models fair in the rock chip department, pretty poor. Within 6 months when I had my SSM TSX the front looked worse than any car I owned.

You wrote I want NO discoloration, 100% clear and unnoticeable. There are no gaurantees that it will be 100% of anything as time goes on, just like the paint on your car if you take care of it it stays shiny and lasts for a long time, Don't wax it and it looks like crap over time. You follow what I am saying. Don't get to caught up in the hype, put it on your car and see the benefits.

Brian

Winterwaves

Brian,
Thanks for the response. Yeah, I know nothing will be absolutely 100% clear as time goes on, but I wanted to know exactly what I was getting into, i.e. was the yellowing going to be noticeable over time, etc...

Your response pretty much assuaged my fears. I think I'm going to go for it. I want my investment in my beautiful car to last as long as possible.

One last question: What is the orange peel effect? I hadn't heard that terminology. OK, maybe two last questions: The installers in my area don't have Avery's clear coat. Do you think going with the Xpel 3M would be a wise choice, then, or should I make the effort to seek out someone that installs Avery's clear bra?

Swiftoy

The orange peel effect is a paint term used in that industry. If you look accross your paint surface you will notice your clear coat has a ripple effect or orange peel effect, it is not completely smooth and flat. Look at it from an angle. I hope this makes sense. 3M has more of this effect than some of the other films it becomes more apparent on the darker colors. I guess the best way to put it is the Avery in my opinion matches better to the cars paint surface. If your TSX is the light silvery blue than I would not worry about it but if it is the darker blue then you may want to seek out someone who installs the Avery film and make sure it is Averys TOP COATED FILM you will hear a lot of bad stuff about the non top coated films they basically fade, but the clear coat on the film is important thing to have. Either choice will protect your investment very well the apperance of the Avery film on dark colors is better and if I had not said anything you most likely would not have noticed. I am just trying to let people know that 3M is not the best of the best nor is any film for that matter and you have a choice. It is kind of like saying the IS300 is better than the TSX and vise versa. You follow.

You won't be sorry with either chioce from a protection standpoint. To bad your to far away I would love to do your install.

Brian

Winterwaves

Another brand I ran across is VentureShield. I don't know anything about them yet. Here's a thread that has some pics from a guy with VentureShield installed:
http://tinyurl.com/ahrbj

In searching for pics of cars that have had clear bras installed, I've discovered that I really don't like the look of the seams, which to me are VERY obvious. Just look at those pics of the Focus in the link above. Very very obvious lateral line running across the hood of the car. I really don't like that. And that's on a lighter car; mine's arctic blue so it would probably be even more noticeable.

OK, so it's better than the old black vinyl bras, but if I'm going to pay a bunch of money for a product that (a) is routinely marketed as being "clear" and "invisible", and (b) whose sole purpose is to protect the paint, then I would expect the product to (a) actually be clear and unnoticeable and (b) not to defeat its main purpose -- protecting the looks of the paint -- by adding its own eyesore instead. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just thinking this out logically.

OK, so a lateral line is less of an eyesore than paint chips, but still...

Guess I'm not sold on this stuff after all.

Swiftoy

I hear that same thing time and time again about the line on the hood. Standing 3 feet from the car you cannot see it. Come on, it is clear and for the most part invisible compared to ANYTHING else on the market, correct?. Driving down the road you cannot see it. You are really making more out of this than it is. If you do not like the line on the hood just have the bumper done. The kit has to stop some where. Go look at one in person and then decide.

Venture tape is non clear coated unless they have changed and there warranty claims dept. suck from what I have heard and the film has blistered from bird droppings getting on the film.

Brian

Winterwaves

Well, I've been searching around for pics on the Net, and so far on every single pic I've seen of a clear bra of any brand or type, the line is VERY noticeable to me. And most of those pics were obviously taken from a distance of more than 3 feet away.

And you know what? Even if other people can't see the line, I'll know it's there, and I'll see it every single time I look at my car, no matter what.

The discussions I've been reading have made me think twice also. For example: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/arc.../t-100036.html

Especially the comments from multiple people saying that if your car is only even slightly dirty, HELLO LINE! And also the comment from the guy that said he got tired of people asking him "What happened to your hood? It has a big scratch all across it." Or the guy that proudly posts a JPG of his car, saying "I would say it's worth it...it doesn't look bad at all." Well, sorry to say dude, but it does look bad to me. The part that's clear-bra'd looks like is lighter than the rest of the car, and it sort of has a cataract-like film over it. And the line is clearly visible.

I just don't know, man.

Swiftoy

That would be a non coated film that has the cataract look. Bottom line is have the line on the hood or have chips on your hood you decide you have to pay for it and live with it or add a vinyl bra. If you don't like the line then don't buy it. It's that simple. I am sold on the product and I am certainly one of the pickest people you will ever meet when it comes to cars. I don't wany rock chips they look worse.

I don't know what to tell you Bro. Good luck on your decision.

Brian

Winterwaves

Sorry for the questions again, but what exactly do you mean by "non-coated"? Coated with what? I assume that the coat is something that is put on during the installation process -- and some installers apparently don't put on the coat? Is the coat something you have to pay extra for?

Swiftoy

Coated films mean clear coat or top coat similar to the clear coat on your cars paint. It is already a part of the film it is not applied at the time of installation nothing you have to pay extra for. These films are manufactured this way, 3M and Avery are the only two I know of at this time that are clear coated or top coated films. Non-coated films basically don't have that protection layer manufactured into them. Non-coated films are subject to fading in a very short amount of time especially if they are not waxed frequently.

Veture Tape- non coated film
Avery Dennison- makes both non coated and top coated films
LLumar- non coated film
3M- Top coated film

At this point in time as I said before 3M and Avery are the only two I know of that have the clear coat protection layer and this is what you want on your car. They retain that glossy appearance and it is a much more durable film.

It is good that you are asking questions as many people don't know that much about the product since it has only really taken off in the last several years. Paint Protection Film has only been around for about 10 years and there is a lot of BS floating around.

Brian

Winterwaves

Thanks for the info. I have to admit that before I even knew what a clear bra is, when I first heard the term I was envisioning some sort of seamless, more fluid coating applied to the car, which would then harden to form a glossy, protective shield. I was a little surprised at first to learn that it's more or less a plastic film that's put over the car.

Yui

What about just coating the entire hood? I hear most of the cost is for the installation, and not the material. I looked into xpel's 3M film and thought I'd poke around here for posts on ClearBra's. If anyone's interested I found a couple of interesting items:

Testing the 3M clearbra
http://www.xpel.com/video_gravel.asp

Technical specs on the 3M clearbra
http://www.xpel.com/products/media/pdf/scotchgard.pdf

Now, I'm interested in getting a PWP, and am worried about the posts here saying that 3M yellows noticeably. However, according to the technical document there was no yellowing after 24 months of exposure out here in Arizona, and that's pretty promising. I'll look into the Avery and see what I can find.

Swiftoy

Since the kits are pre cut and designed the maximum amount of coverage is 24 inches up on the hood. I have heard that another kit designer who actully used to work at Xpel is doing his own thing now and has been talking about offering up to 30 inches of coverage for some kits. I would have to find out.

Yellowing of the film is a problem with all films period if anyone tells you different they are full of sh!t. The biggest problem has been getting people to take care of the product, if you keep it protected with a product that does not contain dyes and is not heavy on the petroleum products. It can last a long time. It is warrantied against this problem.

CVClearbra

bradykp

I'm confused, so xpel is not the product, 3M is?

http://www.xpel.com/products/configu...ar=2006&make=1

so that is 3M protector????

i'd consider investing in this for my new TSX if i had some assurance it accomplishes something. i guess i need to do some research.

Yui

It's the 3M Scotchguard film most likely. Xpel has simply gone to the trouble of designing and pre-cutting kits for your particular car - that is what they're selling.

Check out RockBlocker.com. They gave me a great quote, but then I'm local. They'll also do the full hood for those of you worried about your white paint yellowing - do the full hood and even if it does yellow it at least won't be as noticeable as having only half your hood covered. And yes, based off the video xpel posted on their site (I linked it in an earlier post) it looks like it's worth it. I've got a couple of quarter sized scuffs in my front bumper where rocks on the highway took it out. On my otherwise beautiful MSM, it's quite painful to look at. I wish I had known about this product earlier and gotten it on this car!

bradykp

i dont know i'll have to check out the video. i'm still not fully convinced.

JohnnyCNote

I don't have the exact price on hand, but I'm pretty sure they wanted about $500 for the clear bra in Jacksonville at Acura of Orange Park. I figured if it protects the front it should be worth it, plus they put it on the mirrors, too. I'm getting the Royal Blue, so I don't expect yellowing will be much of an issue. I'll find out what brand the film is.

I've had regular bras in the past and only used them for traveling. The last one I got for my Altima was always a pain to put on. I expect this to be a better option. Time will tell...

excited

I'm getting a clear bra installed on my 06 TSX likely tomorrow. They refered to it as Stonguard. Any comments about this product. ( I believe that it is still 3M.)



Excited

Irfo

Hmm, well, this hasn't been good news, considering I just got the 3M stuff put on my new PWP.

Part of the reason I went for it is my dealer said it can be peeled off without damage if I ever want. I wonder if that's actually true...