Chris Bangle: The Choice of Difference
#41
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by gilboman
sales numbers of "ugly" cars? (if you look at sales numbers, the "ugly" cars are doing just fine in sales)
sales numbers of "ugly" cars? (if you look at sales numbers, the "ugly" cars are doing just fine in sales)
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=40961&dm=yes
It's not a huge drop, but blaming it on new model launch seems kinda like a dodge (not car, but dodging the real answer).
I'm not saying BMW is in dire straits, but it does need some correcting. Panke, the head of BMW, seemed kinda sick of answering questions about Bangle's future at BMW, and he doesn't seem to fully endorse Bangle by name.
Junkster, who wouldn't go as far to say the new BMWs are 'ugly'.
edit: this was also interesting...
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=06176564
#42
Junkster, who wonders when the next GS is coming
Now Bangle has discovered nothing, it's just that Ford "NEW EDGE" styling (Focus, Mercury Couger) applied to BMWs. Bangle has also discovered cars that look GREAT on a computer can look like crap in person. He has no idea of fluidity. Continuous lines do not work on cars. Creases are supposed to compliment, not be the main feature (like the ugly BMW trunks).
GM is not succeeding, it continues to lose marketshare or stay flat.
#43
Originally posted by Junkster
I don't know...
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=40961&dm=yes
It's not a huge drop, but blaming it on new model launch seems kinda like a dodge (not car, but dodging the real answer).
I'm not saying BMW is in dire straits, but it does need some correcting. Panke, the head of BMW, seemed kinda sick of answering questions about Bangle's future at BMW, and he doesn't seem to fully endorse Bangle by name.
Junkster, who wouldn't go as far to say the new BMWs are 'ugly'.
edit: this was also interesting...
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=06176564
I don't know...
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=40961&dm=yes
It's not a huge drop, but blaming it on new model launch seems kinda like a dodge (not car, but dodging the real answer).
I'm not saying BMW is in dire straits, but it does need some correcting. Panke, the head of BMW, seemed kinda sick of answering questions about Bangle's future at BMW, and he doesn't seem to fully endorse Bangle by name.
Junkster, who wouldn't go as far to say the new BMWs are 'ugly'.
edit: this was also interesting...
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=06176564
I like the upcoming GS, big improvement. Picture is in January CD (one stop shopping, that issue - 10 Best, new TL and 5 series reviews and pic of probable future GS).
#44
There's way too many variables in the sales equation to attribute any drops directly to styling. If sales tank, the execs will blame whoever they want (well, except maybe themselves!). Bangle does seem like the obvious choice.
The problem is, with the lead time of new designs, there are billions of dollars in the pipeline. As someone mentioned before, you don't see results in the first MY. By the time BMW figures this out, they could be seriously in the hole.
The upside is that their brand equity is huge and they can bank on that for a while. But the gravy-train only lasts so long.
The problem is, with the lead time of new designs, there are billions of dollars in the pipeline. As someone mentioned before, you don't see results in the first MY. By the time BMW figures this out, they could be seriously in the hole.
The upside is that their brand equity is huge and they can bank on that for a while. But the gravy-train only lasts so long.
#45
Bound for Europe
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: My crib in Burnaby, BC
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've accepted the change and have grown to admire the new designs. I guess I've been brainwashed by the BMW marketing machine. Not really, I'm just one of those freaks who appreciates buildings/cars/women that many consider ugly or imperfect. Character and inner beauty are more attractive to me. Yes, buildings and cars included. Hell, I've been a wanabee M Coupe owner since it came out and that car is ugly as shit. I love it!! I give BMW a
for having the balls to CHANGE what really wasn't broken at all. Their cars will always sell anyway. How many car mags across the globe claim BMW products to be "the best" in all aspects? Hopefully the new designs will scare away the poseur crowd, many of whom have no clue what to do with 320 horsepower. That is another thread altogether
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Mad](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif)
#46
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern ontario
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the market is too unforgiving to make any major mistake. bmw made 2: i-drive and controversial styling. they will quickly revert designs and fix i-drive. poor sob's who have 2003 7 series.
#47
such a dirty birdy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think the new designs are all that bad. I have noticed that I often have a negative reaction to a newly redesigned car, but will grow to like it over time. I may be alone in that, but I think it happens with other people too. Also, I don't think the previous BMW models were all that great or exciting to begin with. Certainly not what I'd call beautiful or striking, save for maybe the Z3.
Because BMWs are considered high end and desirable cars, their new designs will automatically get a public stamp of approval, despite a bit of whining from some enthusiasts. In a few years the new models will be commonplace and everyone will wonder what the big fuss was about. I seriously doubt BMW will backtrack on their designs.
Because BMWs are considered high end and desirable cars, their new designs will automatically get a public stamp of approval, despite a bit of whining from some enthusiasts. In a few years the new models will be commonplace and everyone will wonder what the big fuss was about. I seriously doubt BMW will backtrack on their designs.
#48
Originally posted by majormojo
I don't think the new designs are all that bad. I have noticed that I often have a negative reaction to a newly redesigned car, but will grow to like it over time. I may be alone in that, but I think it happens with other people too. Also, I don't think the previous BMW models were all that great or exciting to begin with. Certainly not what I'd call beautiful or striking, save for maybe the Z3.
Because BMWs are considered high end and desirable cars, their new designs will automatically get a public stamp of approval, despite a bit of whining from some enthusiasts. In a few years the new models will be commonplace and everyone will wonder what the big fuss was about. I seriously doubt BMW will backtrack on their designs.
I don't think the new designs are all that bad. I have noticed that I often have a negative reaction to a newly redesigned car, but will grow to like it over time. I may be alone in that, but I think it happens with other people too. Also, I don't think the previous BMW models were all that great or exciting to begin with. Certainly not what I'd call beautiful or striking, save for maybe the Z3.
Because BMWs are considered high end and desirable cars, their new designs will automatically get a public stamp of approval, despite a bit of whining from some enthusiasts. In a few years the new models will be commonplace and everyone will wonder what the big fuss was about. I seriously doubt BMW will backtrack on their designs.
#49
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally posted by Junkster
Junkster, who wonders what Bangle's CV looks like.
Junkster, who wonders what Bangle's CV looks like.
-1981: Graduated Art Center College of Design of Passadena.
-1981-1985: Stylist, then assistant-director at the department of interior design at Opel.
-1985-1992: Director of exterior studio at Fiat, then of Centro Style. Chief designer for the Fiat Bravo/Brava, Coupe, Barchetta and Alfa 145.
-Since 1992: Director of design at BMW.
And this is where it gets interesting: Some older generation BMWs were Bangle creations as well, and no one has complained about it. Something tells me Bangle may be the Director of Design, but the call for a change in styling may have come from up higher.
This guy has been at BMW for over 10 years now. How many of us knew this? I'm sure many people thought he had arrived no earlier than 1999 and that he was on a powertrip trying to revolve BMW. Seems like he has been given a mandate.
#50
Race Director
It doesn't seem to me that the same person who designed the E46 (current 3 series) one day could wake up the next day and came up with the new 7 series.
#51
Originally posted by sauceman
Here ya go, briefly:
-1981: Graduated Art Center College of Design of Passadena.
-1981-1985: Stylist, then assistant-director at the department of interior design at Opel.
-1985-1992: Director of exterior studio at Fiat, then of Centro Style. Chief designer for the Fiat Bravo/Brava, Coupe, Barchetta and Alfa 145.
-Since 1992: Director of design at BMW.
And this is where it gets interesting: Some older generation BMWs were Bangle creations as well, and no one has complained about it. Something tells me Bangle may be the Director of Design, but the call for a change in styling may have come from up higher.
This guy has been at BMW for over 10 years now. How many of us knew this? I'm sure many people thought he had arrived no earlier than 1999 and that he was on a powertrip trying to revolve BMW. Seems like he has been given a mandate.
Here ya go, briefly:
-1981: Graduated Art Center College of Design of Passadena.
-1981-1985: Stylist, then assistant-director at the department of interior design at Opel.
-1985-1992: Director of exterior studio at Fiat, then of Centro Style. Chief designer for the Fiat Bravo/Brava, Coupe, Barchetta and Alfa 145.
-Since 1992: Director of design at BMW.
And this is where it gets interesting: Some older generation BMWs were Bangle creations as well, and no one has complained about it. Something tells me Bangle may be the Director of Design, but the call for a change in styling may have come from up higher.
This guy has been at BMW for over 10 years now. How many of us knew this? I'm sure many people thought he had arrived no earlier than 1999 and that he was on a powertrip trying to revolve BMW. Seems like he has been given a mandate.
Bangle did the 7 and Z4 and the other designs followed those two and incorporated his design cues, such as the ugly trunk concept, which is apparently his hallmark. The 6 is supposedly the work of a team at BMW's studio in California. Bangle recently responded to criticism of the new 6 by shrugging his shoulders and saying he and his team have given up trying to design cars that look good in print. This is sad, because, one, so many people are questioning his efforts and, two, because it reflects a certain arrogance on his part. I think the results of his labors are a joke at best, an insult at worst.
#52
in search of PW threads
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by tsx-mdxman
Bangle recently responded to criticism of the new 6 by shrugging his shoulders and saying he and his team have given up trying to design cars that look good in print.
Bangle recently responded to criticism of the new 6 by shrugging his shoulders and saying he and his team have given up trying to design cars that look good in print.
#53
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great find Sauceman, I couldn't find that all afternoon.
I did know that he was around for quite some time, but did not have the degree of freedom that he's has until lately. Bangle is known as the head designer but there are his cronies who seem to be even more guilty. I've read articles that the two most guilty designs, the Z4 and the 7 (I think I can deal with the 5, at least it's a great car under that weird mug), were penned by two designers under Bangle with emphasis on the 'flame' theme. The guy responsible for the 7 has moved down the chain due to the reaction of the press on his design, so that the Z4 was designed by another in the studio. The weird line that bisects the car behind the front wheel well on the doors was purely Bangle on a design that looked bad already. Slate magazine reported some of these.
I could see why Bangle's designs seem more weird than others, since he was a interior designer for a couple of european companies.
Another post and some car reviewers have said this, but do people in Bangle's gang fear the possibility of drawing a straight line on their car?
I guess I will send a ruler to Bangle for Christmas.
Junkster, who thinks Mickey Kaus' articles on Bangle are hilarious.
I did know that he was around for quite some time, but did not have the degree of freedom that he's has until lately. Bangle is known as the head designer but there are his cronies who seem to be even more guilty. I've read articles that the two most guilty designs, the Z4 and the 7 (I think I can deal with the 5, at least it's a great car under that weird mug), were penned by two designers under Bangle with emphasis on the 'flame' theme. The guy responsible for the 7 has moved down the chain due to the reaction of the press on his design, so that the Z4 was designed by another in the studio. The weird line that bisects the car behind the front wheel well on the doors was purely Bangle on a design that looked bad already. Slate magazine reported some of these.
I could see why Bangle's designs seem more weird than others, since he was a interior designer for a couple of european companies.
Another post and some car reviewers have said this, but do people in Bangle's gang fear the possibility of drawing a straight line on their car?
I guess I will send a ruler to Bangle for Christmas.
Junkster, who thinks Mickey Kaus' articles on Bangle are hilarious.
#54
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by sauceman
This guy has been at BMW for over 10 years now. How many of us knew this? I'm sure many people thought he had arrived no earlier than 1999 and that he was on a powertrip trying to revolve BMW. Seems like he has been given a mandate.
This guy has been at BMW for over 10 years now. How many of us knew this? I'm sure many people thought he had arrived no earlier than 1999 and that he was on a powertrip trying to revolve BMW. Seems like he has been given a mandate.
Someone posted further back that because BMW is a prestige marque the public will eventually accept these designs as the current fashion and all will be well.
I have an opposite view. BMW customers are generally discerning and enthusiastic drivers. Of course there are the well-endowed pathetic sheep that will buy up anything a prestige marque serves up (same happens in the fashion world). But if the designs are not well accepted, the core buyers of BMW, the driving enthusiasts, will look elsewhere.
So whether it's Chris Bangle or someone else that designs BMW's lineup is irrelevant. What is of concern is that the new BMWs incorporate highly eccentric design elements that, in the view of many, compromise the overall aesthetic look of the cars.
You can't make something beautiful by stamping BMW on it. BMW can be applauded for taking risks in the name of automotive innovation. But I think the two most recent (designs and i-drive) are in the process of backfiring. The challenge BMW faces is improving on a car lineup that flirted with perfection. I don't think they have met that challenge with the current lineup and will pay for it.
#55
such a dirty birdy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spud
Someone posted further back that because BMW is a prestige marque the public will eventually accept these designs as the current fashion and all will be well.
I have an opposite view. BMW customers are generally discerning and enthusiastic drivers. Of course there are the well-endowed pathetic sheep that will buy up anything a prestige marque serves up (same happens in the fashion world). But if the designs are not well accepted, the core buyers of BMW, the driving enthusiasts, will look elsewhere.
You can't make something beautiful by stamping BMW on it.
Someone posted further back that because BMW is a prestige marque the public will eventually accept these designs as the current fashion and all will be well.
I have an opposite view. BMW customers are generally discerning and enthusiastic drivers. Of course there are the well-endowed pathetic sheep that will buy up anything a prestige marque serves up (same happens in the fashion world). But if the designs are not well accepted, the core buyers of BMW, the driving enthusiasts, will look elsewhere.
You can't make something beautiful by stamping BMW on it.
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
So, continuing to play devil's advocate a bit:
Isn't it possible that the driving enthusiasts will be more swayed by performance than by style? It's not like the previous generations of BMWs were anything special to look at. The enthusiasts bought them because they were great to drive, the sheep bought them because they were expensive. BMW sold some cars and everyone went home happy. (Except larchmont).
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I agree that you can't make something beautiful by stamping BMW on it. But you can certainly change the public perception of what "beautiful" is by doing that. Beauty, style, design - those concepts are all about perception, not absolutes. Maybe BMW can pull it off.
Additionally, I think it's nice to see BMW flirting with some creative ideas just for the sake of fashion. They've had these typically Teutonic staid, practical, conservative models for so long, a little risk-taking is long overdue. They needed to lighten up already.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#56
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that enthusiasts will be influenced by the performance aspect of BMWs, notwithstanding questionable styling.
If you're correct, and what is perceived as controversial one year is generally accepted fashion the next, I will be happy. The world is a happier place when I yearn for a BMW. As much as I love my TSX (and, believe me, I do...), I am a supporter of the BMW philosphy/concept/approach to car building. I simply think they are the best prestige carmaker out there and I'd be sad to see these designs lead them into decline.
That is why I'm being vocal about the current designs. I want to like them, but I simply can't. It's kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes. She's still the same person inside, but it's hard to see past the new look....
If you're correct, and what is perceived as controversial one year is generally accepted fashion the next, I will be happy. The world is a happier place when I yearn for a BMW. As much as I love my TSX (and, believe me, I do...), I am a supporter of the BMW philosphy/concept/approach to car building. I simply think they are the best prestige carmaker out there and I'd be sad to see these designs lead them into decline.
That is why I'm being vocal about the current designs. I want to like them, but I simply can't. It's kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes. She's still the same person inside, but it's hard to see past the new look....
#57
Über Geek
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gator Country
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spud
…kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes. She's still the same person inside, but it's hard to see past the new look...
…kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes. She's still the same person inside, but it's hard to see past the new look...
Not true with a $60-75K sedan.
#58
such a dirty birdy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spud
It's kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes.
It's kinda like if you're beautiful girfriend gets a really bad haircut and starts wearing wierd clothes.
:-*
For a couple of bucks, you get a weird haircut and waste your life away.
#59
Bangle joined the company but did not make any decisions 10 years ago. He was part of the design team. NOW he is the head. Bangle was influencial in the Z3 rear touch up, the eliminating of black Bumpers on BMWs, angel eye headlights, but those designs were in running when he came to BMW (older generations).
The 7 series had to have the 1st lease deal in history to get them moving. They sell as slow in molasses in Europe.
I fear, where people used to look with envy when they saw a person in a BMW, they will now look with a laugh, as the cars ugly and ungainly.
The 7 series had to have the 1st lease deal in history to get them moving. They sell as slow in molasses in Europe.
I fear, where people used to look with envy when they saw a person in a BMW, they will now look with a laugh, as the cars ugly and ungainly.
#60
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Well, I definitely read from my source that he joined BMW as director of design. Of course, my source could be wrong, but what about yours? Are you sure about what you're saying?
#62
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Let me go check sauceman....I could be wrong.
Let me go check sauceman....I could be wrong.
It's pretty bad when CD says they "just wish we didn't miss the old 5 so much." Even our own Buff Daddy is disappointed.
#63
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern ontario
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bangle is much like Wayne Cheery at GM - long-serving and progressively deteriorating wrt style. BMW will do the same thing GM did to Cherry - heave ho. He is much younger, of course, so they will do it in a more progressive way - such as:
Mr. Bangle has reached all of his desired accomplishments atBMW, and has opted to join a growing Russian carmaker....
Mr. Bangle has reached all of his desired accomplishments atBMW, and has opted to join a growing Russian carmaker....
#65
MB had a few misses, but they're certainly not on the streak that BMW seems to currently be on. I can only think of the M-Class SUVs and the new SLK (looks like a goblin) that I think are ugly.
![](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/spinaroundtown/mercedesbenz.slr/04.mb.mclaren.slr.f34.500.jpg)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Yumcha
Automotive News
1
09-25-2015 06:14 PM