fdl

Will the TSX make it on here?

In order to be considered the car needs to be a new redesign or one of last years winners. So the TSX will be considered.

I think the RSX was still on the list last year? SO it will be considered as well. I cant see them having both the RSX AND the TSX on the list (although its possible)...so that would probably mean that if the TSX gets on there...the RSX might be off, or maybe the accord. Or maybe none will make it! Who knows.


Any predictions? Will the TSX make the list? Remember..the competition is limited to those on the list last year and new redesigns.

EDIT: Here are last years winners....

Acura RSX
Audi A4
BMW 3 series
BMW 5 series
Chevy Corvette
Ford Focus
Honda Accord
Honda S2000
Porche Boxter
Subaru Impreza WRX

EDIT #2: This list is old, new list is ..

Dropped from last year's list are the Audi A4, BMW 5-series, and Honda S2000. This year's Car and Driver "10Best" winners are:

Acura RSX (2)
Infiniti G35
BMW 3-series/M3 (12)
Mazda 6 s
Chevrolet Corvette (9)
Nissan 350Z
Ford Focus (4)
Porsche Boxster (6)
Honda Accord (17)
Subaru Impreza WRX (2)

AcuraFan

The Accord will still be on the list...that's a given. Now, about the TSX being on there...I've actually thought about this myself. I guess there's a good chance considering how well recieved the TSX has been by most magazines (C&D included). But what would go to make room for it? I don't know. The RSX is a possibility, maybe the Focus or WRX. As it is, there are two cars in that class on the list (A4 and 3 series), is there really room for one more?

wishiwere

I would say the tsx has a very good chance of being on it. I don't see how the focus could possibly have any chance of staying on the list, so there will be at least 1 open spot for a newcomer. And, I don't see how the RSX being on the list will exclude the TSX...they're not even built on the same platform, and, given the multiple hondas/acuras already on the list, and the fact that bmw has 2 cars, I think the tsx and rsx both have a good chance of making it. But, I think the g35 coupe also has a very good shot (unless it's not eligible because it came out last year? ) And, I hear the new Saab 9-3 is a hell of a car

Does anyone know the rules as far as when a car has to come out for it to be considered? For example, with the new TL be considered? Also, will the old 5 series or the new one be considered?

fdl

Dump the A4 for the TSX!

larchmont

I would say the TSX will be on the list, unless the TL is.

fdl

Good question, I'm not sure if as 2004 Model year cars, they would be considered for the 2003 award. That would answer the question about the TSX pretty quickly.

AcuraFan

True that!

fdl

This is what C&D said about the 2002 awards..so it sounds like the TSX (and TL) will not be eligable for this years award.

"We have only three restrictions. First, the vehicle must be on sale by January 2002. Second, it must fall beneath our maximum base-price cap of $66,000 (calculated by multiplying the average new-car transaction price as of the summer of 2001 — $26,376 — by 2.5 and rounding up). And third, the manufacturer must be able to supply us with an example of the nominated vehicle by mid-September for our rigorous evaluations.

As usual, we automatically renominate last year's 10Best winners, provided they are still on the market and remain under our price cap. All our 2001 picks met these criteria. Then we seek out cars that are all-new or upgraded significantly for 2002. We found 33 such machines to add to our returning 2001 10Best winners. If a car meets neither of these qualifications, that means it has already had a shot at 10Best in a previous year. There are no second chances."

AcuraFan

I don't think it matters what model year the car is. I think they just look at what cars are available in that calendar year. Buyers have been enjoying the TSX since April but it's not eligible because of how the car was marketed (as a 2004 model)? I doubt it. If it's one of the best cars available in 2003 then it should be on the list.

fdl

See my post just before yours...it looks like it wont be eligable this year.

AcuraFan

Ok, I stand corrected.

wishiwere

No way..the A4 is a really nice car. The focus, on the other hand...what a pos. I mean, the inclusion of the focus almost singlehandedly makes the list lose credibility. Dump that for the tsx, and the list will be pretty solid, in that I think most people would love to have any one of the cars on it, for the given class that each car is in. I don't think I've ever met anyone who has wanted a focus...

wishiwere

Well, in that case....go 9-3! I think the 93ss deserves a spot, in my (obviously)unbiased opinion However, I have a strong suspicion (hunch) that the g35 coupe will be on that list (I think it meets all those requirements...).

larchmont

FDL -- You quoted the guidelines for the 2002 awards. I assume you're sure that the "2002" list was indeed 1 year ago, not 2? i.e. that the upcoming list will be the 2003 list, not the 2004 list??

If so, and if they keep the same guidelines, then clearly neither the TSX nor the TL will be eligible.

majormojo

Eligibility aside, I think the TSX would have a real chance at replacing the Accord on the list. Look at the other cars they choose - not exactly weighted toward practicality. The TSX can certainly be considered a sportier version of the Accord, giving up a bit of back seat space, but still practical and gaining a lot in handling and general fun to drive character. "Fun to drive" goes a loooong way in the C&D Ten Best.

OTOH, I could also see it possibly bumping the RSX as a more practical car that delivers a driving experience that's as satisfying as the RSX.

AcuraFan

Yeah, the A4 is a really nice car. But, in a list of nice cars, it might not be quite enough. Personally, the A4 is a little bland to look at and a little boring to drive...that's not to say I don't like it, I just think there are cars out there that deserve it's spot a little more (like the TSX or 9-3).

The Focus may be a cheap car, but it's a good car in it's class. C&D isn't the only one giving it praise. Just because it's an economy car doesn't mean it's not the best car at what it does. Taking the Focus off the list would be like C&D saying there are no good economy cars on the market and that the only cars worth buying are luxury and/or performance cars. I have no objections to it being on the list.

fdl

Not 100% sure. The only list I could find was the 2002 list. Maybe I need to look harder.

EDIT: Good one Larch! I found the 2003 list ...so the 2004 list will come out in Jan 2004 and should include the TSX, and TL, etc.

Dropped from last year's list are the Audi A4, BMW 5-series, and Honda S2000. This year's Car and Driver "10Best" winners are:

Acura RSX (2)
Infiniti G35
BMW 3-series/M3 (12)
Mazda 6 s
Chevrolet Corvette (9)
Nissan 350Z
Ford Focus (4)
Porsche Boxster (6)
Honda Accord (17)
Subaru Impreza WRX (2)

larchmont

That's what I would've thought, since, you know, they usually cheat the calendar on things like this --- so I would've been surprised if the next list would only be "2003."

larchmont

So, back to the question: I say the TSX makes the list, unless the TL does.

Which it probably will. -- hey, the friggin' icon doesn't work!


P.S. If both cars make the list, Acura takes over the world.

AcuraFan

What year is this list? I'm looking at the C&D website and the January 2003 list looks like this:
Acura RSX
BMW 3-series/M3
Chevrolet Corvette
Ford Focus
Honda Accord
Infiniti G35
Mazda 6 s
Nissan 350Z
Porsche Boxster
Subaru Impreza WRX

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=2416

And if that's the case, when did the 350Z and Mazda6 come out? I didn't think they were available by January 2002.

(as a side note...wishiwere...notice the A4 is not on the list but the Focus still is? :P Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Count Blah

I could see the TSX displacing the Mazda6 or WRX from the 2003 list. But maybe I'm biased.

AcuraFan

Dang it! You beat me too it!

fdl

This is such great time for cars. There is SOOO many great cars out right now, in every category. It think it gets harder and harder to pick just 10. Should the TSX be there? Ya...but its going to be really hard to decide what SHOULDNT be there.

wishiwere

Now this is interesting. Putting both the g35 and the 350z shows means that a single platform accounts for 20% of the list...

I think the biggest deterrant to the tsx will be the mazda6s being on the list. Those two cars are extremely similar (4-door sporty sedan with a good number of entry-luxury features, priced a step below the 3-series/a4/g35 etc.), and I don't see both cars making the list. I'm not sure if they favor cars that are already on the list or not, but if they do, I am predicting the mazda6 stays on and the tsx just misses out.
However, with all due respect to AcuraFan, I still have big problems with the focus being on the list. I have nothing against economy cars, but there should be a recall threshold, where above a certain number of recalls a car is not considered to be one of the 10 best on the planet (speaking of recalls...the election is back on...what a mess CA is... ). Other than the focus, I don't see any of the others being taken off (except maybe the wrx, just because the sti and the evo are now out and kind of beat the old wrx at its own game).

fdl

I still say RSX gets dropped, and TSX gets added, even thought it will mean the list will be loaded with sport sedans.

fdl

Could you imagine the insanity that would go in here if the 3 series got dropped for the TSX. Buff-Daddy and Gilboman would be publically gang raped!

j/k guys

ClutchPerformer

The funny thing is: that's not impossible.

But I think if any car gets "dropped" for the TSX, it'll be something else. The 3 series is here to stay (until BMW itself effs it up). I wouldn't be surprised if TSX takes out the M6.

Buff-Daddy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have never been sure how they came up with these lists to begin with. Their criteria has to change from one car to the next. 3-Series reliability #'s wouldn't put it on that list and I don't see one common factor that they all have? The only thing the Corvette and the Focus have in common is that they are American made cars. Here are the current 4 door sedans on the list.

Infiniti G35
BMW 3-series/M3 (12)
Mazda 6 s
Ford Focus (4)
Honda Accord (17)
Subaru Impreza WRX (2)

Now, the TSX has to replace one of these and beat out other competitors who are trying to get thier name on this list like the A4, S4, Volvo S60, Saab 9-3, New 5 series, You have to remember that this list doesn't just cater to our demographic. The Accord is, has and always will be the closest thing to a "sure thing" in the auto industry. What makes the TSX so interesting is what also might prevent it from making this list. It is a "tweener", meaning it sits perfectly in-between 2 markets. The 6 and WRX don't have squat for luxuary, but they have the performance and price edge. It will all come down to how they look at things. The aging 3-Series is not 100% safe, but they have liked the 3-Series for a long time and I don't know if the TSX offers enough for them to replace it on the list. They will keep thinking about the fact that it is a front wheel drive with a 4 banger and I am not sure they will be able to justify that taking the 3-Series off of the list. If they decide that the G35 is better overall, then they could leave the 3-Series off for that reason?

I think it is great that they have so many great cars to choose from and I hope the TSX makes the list, they did a great job with this car. Regardless of what the list says, I would never buy a Corvette, WRX, RSX or Focus.

darth62

I'd dispute your argument that the M6 has a the "performance" edge. It is between .4 and 1 second faster 0-60, depending on the source, but it is also a lot slower in passing times (like AUTOMOBILES 30 -70 ) and doesn't handle as well. Also, if you consider the functioning of the transmission to be part of "performance" the M6 falls even further behind the TSX.

The M6 has one real advantage over the TSX, braking. Brakes are more powerful, and there is much less nose dive. I would also argue that there is more driver feedback (better road feel) in the M6, or at least in the M6 I test drove. Otherwise, the performance issue is debateable at best.

MrChad

The Mazda 6 may likely be bumped from the list as car and driver has complained on many occasions they hate the bump steer and chassis rebound the m6 offers in return for use on bumpy roads.

The TSX is a heavy contender for the list. However, I don't look for the TL to make the list. There are clearly many better drivers cars (RWD) offered for 35k.

If the Mazda 6 doesn't leave the list I would look for the Z to leave. I think its impracticality would, as a daily driver, may bump it off the list. The Z can't live up to the performance per dollar of the Vette or the usefulness of the G35 coupe.

dnb

I agree with those who think the TSX will displace the Mazda 6 from the list.

I also think the WRX will be displaced by the Evolution. (The Evolution beat the STi in a C&D comparo.)

fdl

Ya, either the STI or the EVO will be on the list for sure, and if you say the Evo beat out the STI..then it will be on there.

Now think about this..if the Accord is on there...and the TSX is a BETTER version of the accord...then it should definately be on there shouldnt it?

I actually think the M6 might stay. Thats why the rsx gets bumped...as its getting a little dated and is not the killer car it was before.

fdl

Maybe...but keep in mind the NA Accord is a 17 time winner. That will be no small feat.

BuddySol

Didn't C&D implement a rule about how many cars from one manufacturer could be on the list because Honda had taken up a good chunk of the spots one year? I think that's why the S2, as well as the Civic and Prelude were dropped. So, in essence you have to pick two cars from Honda, and no doubt the Accord will be on it. So that leaves one more spot.

larchmont

Here's an idea: Maybe C&D changes it to a "15 best" list??

jackspat2

TSX = better than A4.

It wins.

This thread is over.



Have a nice day.

dabuda

hmm, only 2 cars from one manufacturer? maybe theyll have ACCORD/TL as one entry since it's the same platform and have TSX by itself

fdl

Affirmative action for cars??

I've not heard this, and I hope its not true because it would be silly. No need to be "politically correct" when chosing cars. Just pick the ten best..period.

ClutchPerformer

This is an interesting statement....

...but I don't think the TSX is a better version of the Accord. It's a different version of the Accord, yes. More sporty version, yes. But the Accord's on that list so much because it's the best roomy, Camry-stomping family-hauler that money can buy (which is a very important car function). The TSX is not about to dethrone it.

On a different note: am I the only one on here who likes the Accord (including the 4-door)? I think it's a great car, and I even like how it looks.

fdl

OK, I mean better in its sportiness, feel, and quality...which are things that C&D usually value more than interior space etc. Then again they picked the accord over the M6 in a comparo .. and the M6 drives similar to the TSX...so who knows.