ATLiens79

New to the forum as of today. My wife and I are thinking about ditchin our Bimmers and switchin to Acura (seen the tsx on speed world challenge). Little background on me: Is use my 2001 330i for business during the week and autoX/DE events on the weekend. Car handles well, has tons of power, and lots of aftermarket upgrades. Lately, I have been forkin out some serious cash on costly repairs due to the age/mileage of the car, thus the reason for the replacement....I will either upgrade to a newer version of the 330i or look for an alternative (TSX). I have couple questions for the forum that perhaps could help me in my decision process:

1.) Anyone have any experience using their TSX as a dual purpose track car? If so, how does the car handle? What is the suspension of choice? Can it keep up with the pack or do you spend most of your time looking in the mirrors to signal people to pass you by?

2.) What kind of HP is realistic with simple exhaust/computer mods? Is it a vast improvement over stock? Not looking to do any type of turbo/super-charger upgrade...

3.) Braking-is stock enough with performance pads or is a big brake upgrade necessary?

Basically, I don’t want to spend $15-20k on a slightly used 6 speed TSX and then have to spend another $5-10k to make it trackable. Just looking for some honest feedback if this car has potential based on my needs. I know nothing about acura's or honda's. Thanks for the help in advance.

super4

on that kind of budget ui think you can go with something much better/more suitable for your purpose. id say like a 00-02 s4, tho they have $$ repairs also tsx is reliable and a good daily driver but no bimmer. plus its fwd is no car for autocross. the tsx handels ok, but going from a 330 will be far worse with a stock set up, aftermarket is all up to you how far you can go. i thnk with all basic bolt ons youll have a hard time getting to 200WHP. braking is ok.

if you like autocross find a cheap miata as a second car, you can find a very decent one for well under 3000, and build it up for another 5000 to be a monster.

chuson

1. TSX is a great track car w/ respectable suspension mods, HOWEVER, do not expect alot of power. It can be done going full N/A (Hytech) and rip the cabin apart + no A/C etc; or snap a Comptech S/C + I/H/E + Pulley + HFC and call it a day. It's peppy but not fast, you need to stay @ high rpm way more often than your 330i. Driving in City is good enough.

2. Stock 6MT is around 175-180WHP on dyno. 6MT + all possible bolt-on (not much for TSX) will be close to 200WHP/170ishWTQ, or barely over. S/C + bolt-on is about 260-270WHP/210ishWTQ. Hytech full N/A ranged from 270WHP to 350WHP but this is not what you want unless you want the same car as Speed.

3. Stock brake is WEAK compare to your stock 330i. I would suggest upgrade your Rotors+Pads+SS line+Upgrade Brake Fluid to suit what you needs; or if $$$ is not an issue, just swap the front brakes to BBK, expect 1000-1500ish.

ThirdLane

For what you are looking to do, TSX is a great dual purpose car. Since you are looking to Auto X, power production is not a requirement. As Auto X'ing emphasize suspension tuning and sharpness rather than pure engine power. Plus with Auto X'ing most are done on big parking lots so there isn't much room to stretch out the engine. TSX has one of the best handling/ride compromises out there in the FWD car market. Having double wishbone suspension allows for a better fine tuning of handling characteristics that are required for Auto X'ing(I could write 10pages on Double wishbone suspension tuning and characteristics but I won't). As for braking stock brakes are sufficient for a few laps but will fade after awhile(I can attest to this). I can tell you that just swapping out for higher temp pads, brake fluid, and ss braided lines will do much more than a big brake kit. Most fail to realize that with BBK, your braking distance will suffer since the stock MC is not designed to pump the fluid required for a multi piston brake kit. To fully utilize a BBK, you must switch to a bigger MC. Only advantage of a BBK is the fade resistance. But thats it. And its looks better. As for power adders. Don't bet on bolt on giving you much power addition. Its a Honda so the K24 is pretty much wrung out full from the factory. I suggest going for a TSX in 2004-2006 model year since those years have the Hondata reflash available. It won't net you much peak power but it will net you almost 30hp/25ft/lb tq in the mid range where it will be more useful for what you are looking to do. Feel free to PM me

ThirdLane

Most people fail to realize that your braking performance suffer when using BBK with out upgrading their MC. Stock MC's aren't designed for multi piston calipers. They simply cannot move the amount of fluid required to make it beneficial.

ATLiens79

Figured is was worth investigating. Thanks for the info.

SicK TypeS

both are great cars! from a daily driving point of view the TSX will get better mpg and will hold up much better as you rack up the mileage.

ATLiens79

Does the TSX have a LSD?

ThirdLane

No. Not from the factory. But you can swap a DC5 ITR LSD into the TSX. And a few aftermarket manufacturers offer a LSD for the ITR which will fit a TSX

chuson

I do realize that and have mentioned to others tons of time on forum, I did not emphasis it here because it's non related.

It is NOT necessary to upgrade MC for BBK because it depends on WHAT calipers are you getting. E.g. Spoon and Wilwood calipers DOES NOT require to upgrade MC, simply because those are mini-piston compare to the stock HUGE piston. 6pot or full size 4pot might need it.

BTW: I assume the OP wants to track? What's autoX in parking lot? Never see that in Canada, or I just don't notice.

ThirdLane

The volume of fluid needed for most BBK, is greater than stock calipers. But might not be the case for Spoon or Wilwood. Auto X is a small scale time attack races. Where one race against the clock in a pre determined route. Most Auto X's are small scale compared to Japanese Time Attack so it can be held in big parking lots or lots. Auto X'ing is a test for car dynamics and handling rather than powerful engines. Its held in lots with courses marked by traffic cones and laps only lasts between 40 secs to 2 minutes. Since most are held in parking lots, you don't need to powerful engines. Google AutoCrossing. Auto X is fun and anyone could get into it,

Mokos23

i guess you don't like the new 09 TSX huh?

LaZyPiGgY

335i coupe, Dinan Chipped.

jaehshim

TSXs do not have LSD. rather, we have VSA, Vehicle Stability Control. it's just like any other Traction control.
their technical purpose is pretty much the same, yet

LSD gives you better traction without cutting power.
VSA gives you better traction with cutting power.

CGTSX07

right off the bat I will say that this is not the car for you and it will be too much of a leap from what you are coming from. but my best recommendation would be for you to test drive an 08 at the dealership and see what you think for yourself. The 330 and TSX are completely different cars. 4 cyl vs. 6 cyl, fwd vs. rwd...

chuson

Thanks.

I tried to search AutoX in my area/city but it seems like None. Track event was popular tho due to 3 different tracks nearby.

ATLiens79

I may try to hit the local dealer up this week. Based on everyone feedbacks, I may be wasting the salesman's time. Thanks again.

financeman1

I would go for a low mileage 2006 6mt. They got a 10 whp boost compared to the 05. With CAI, headers, exhaust, pulleys, hondata, IM gaskets, intake spacer... you should be able to get in low 200's horsepower with the lower vtec point of hondata suiting you very well for auto crossing.

You can brace nearly every point of the chassis and suspension to get a very balanced FWD car.

Lastly, an upgrade of lighter rims/wider tires is necessary along with better pads and rotors. Stock setup has lots of fade and the michelins dont help braking at all.

What most people are trying to say is that it will take some upgrades to get where you need to be for auto x but thats nearly every car. Just be prepared for lack of low end power with TSX that the bimmer has and the 50/50 weight distribution and RWD helping your car handle very well. I think it would be a very fun project, could perform very well( as others here have proven) and last forever.

SoCaliTrojan

I doubt he saw the 09 on the world speed challenge...that, and compared to the 1st gen, the 09 is more of a boat. He wants a vehicle for autocrossing, so the 1st gen would be better at that.

wackura

The OP would be very disappointed with the TSX.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Coming from a person who has tinkered with at least 100 of the people's cars who are posters of AZ, and a person who currently drives a E36 M3....

You are going to notice that the TSX feels a lot lighter. Probably feels more nimble too. However it is a lot weaker too. BMWs are much more rigid than acuras. You can fit additional bracing to the car that will make a huge difference at the expense of a little weight and the tradeoff is favorable.

The engine is respectable and it is possible to get some big power out of that 4 but it is not inexpensive. Hyetch's engine can get you in the high 200s for whp and in the mid 200s for ft-lbs, but it is going to take a full engine build. Of course there are a multitude of things that can be done in between as well.


For those that try to make a TSX into a 3-series....you are usually doing it wrong. The TSX has a great many benefits over the 3-series. Not the least of which is the nickel and dime BS. Expect well over 100,000 miles of nearly worry free service from your Acura, freeing up funds for mods and fun.

Ibn Rushd

Out of curiosity...wouldn't the TL fair better for this than the TSX....the TSX is a good car, but i'm just curious, if he's coming from a 330, wouldn't an 08 TL Type S fair better?

ATLiens79

Trying to take all of this in. Basically, I spend most of my time on the track, every once in a while I will hit up an AutoX to kill some time between DE days. W/ the Bimmer, all I have to do is slap on a set of slicks and firm up the suspension. I don't have to be the fastest, but like to keep up.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this car sounds as if I am going to have to do some serious work in order to have some fun on the track. I have never seen a TSX on the track at any DE event, maybe this is an indicator? Love the idea of a worry free car, thats why I am investigating and perhaps doing something different. If possible, could someone build me a price list of must need items w/ estimated prices to get one "track ready"-suspension, ECU, exhaust (do not want to sound like jonny racer), bracing, ss brake lines, etc. Please exclude the turbos and S/C...If I have to spend that type of money, I think I will stay with a BMW.

Additionally, how many people on this forum have actually taken their TSX to the track?

Thanks again.

ATLiens79

Remember, I like the idea of a dual purpose car, not a dedicated racer. That’s the great thing about the BMW and what I am trying to emulate with the TSX. If it’s not feasible, then it just may not be the right car for me. Either way, its worth looking into.

ThirdLane

I've taken my TSX to a road course in SC called Kershaw MotorSports Park. Done few AutoX events with it. For the Road Course, car really showed its limitations as far as power and braking. For Auto X, car show a lot of its strengths like its handling, and quick revving engine. For Auto X'ing the TSX is a blast. Just need better tires, and higher temp brake pads/fluid, and light suspension work

litesout

I'm with Super4 on the Miata idea. I drove a 1G Miata that was scarry fast. It was an M Edition that the owner dropped the small V6 out of the MX3 into and modded the crap out of it. It handled great, and I think it had great potential as a track car, even though it was not used as such. And who knows, it could be fun on the weekend for other stuff too. There's about two weeks out of the year here in Orlando it's cool enough that I'd like to be able to drive with the top down.

Populuxe

As someone who has owned a 2001 330 and a 2007 TSX, you don't want a TSX.

Hondas are really finicky machines and not all that great at making any power at all for cheap. You also have to get used to the fact that all of the power a naturally aspirated Honda makes is way up in the powerband past 4000-5000rpm.

You will have to spend $5-10k on modifications to get what I think you're looking for, and you will lose some civility. Right now, with the parts I have on my suspension (about $3500 into suspension and tires/wheels alone,) I've got more grip than an E46 M3, but ride quality has inevitably suffered. My suspension setup has been recorded at 0.92g on the skidpad.

Power is what the TSX lacks and torque is terrible. To make this car good on a road course you're going to pretty much need the power a supercharger will get you and even then you're only looking at about 240whp and ~200lb-ft of torque for about $6000 in mods (supercharger, intake, header, exhaust is negligible on the TSX and doesn't really make much power.)

Really, I would have gotten rid of my TSX a while ago if it hadn't depreciated so much after ending up getting rear-ended (minor accident and frame wasn't bent, but still it's too hard to sell a new car with that on the Carfax.)

The TSX has been absolutely reliable for me, though.


Do what I didn't do, and go buy an A4/S4 and save yourself the trouble.

ATLiens79

Done. Won't think about the tsx ever again. Good advice and point well taken. Would like to take a ride in a well prep'd miata....search is on, but glad I took a look at the tsx. Seems like the Acura community is a classy group of well educated folks. Thanks again for all the feedback and advice.

Blazing GT

This is an Acura forum and you are going to get a lot of positive replies...IMO go for a TL or stay with BMW. The 2001 330i is much faster than the TSX....any generation!

wackura

Track with a FWD boat?

TommySalami

Yup. Autocrossed mine a couple weeks ago and the tires are definitely the weakest link with this car. Even with stock rubber I was only a couple seconds behind the average times being put up by the STi Evo Miata drivers etc.. so that upgrade along with a rear sway bar and maybe coilovers would make you competitive.
As for the TL, it's WAAAY to big to be taking to an autocross, but it might fit in a little better on a real track
The only thing is, it'll never have as much power as your 330. I guess you've just gotta decide whether you can live with that or if you're always going to be wanting more out of it.

kabota

I drive a stripped out matrix at rallycrosses and I like the way the front wheel drive handles. I would say TSX would do well at autocross.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Taje a look again when a the newer TSX is released with SH-AWD. It should have plenty of power and great delivery. Of course, the tires will probably still suck. It's a honda thing.

Marcus

aznt1217

In terms of fun I think you will have more if not the same amount.

Ditch the Exhaust, you'll tear up the corners quite well with the TSX and stay in that lovely high RPM band and hear the engine in its element.

TSX 6SPD- should cost you like 15-18k for a decently used one. Lack of repair costs should make up for whatever you pay for the BMW already.

-Get an Intake (Cold Air)- approx 120-160 (hopefully find one used on forums)
-Hondata ECU- 600
-Stickier Tires
-Tein SS
-Comptech Rear Sway Bar
-Front Strut Bar

You will get some excitement with that relatively simple mod list. What I suggest is going to the track with some member around your area, see how you feel after.

super4

my freind just got an 04 330ci, totally diff car... feels much heavier, but the power is great!!!
handels good and has a sick interior!!!

DuckDodgers

If you are willing to consider the TSX as a "track" car, go buy a V-6 Accord instead.

More power, more mods available, cheaper parts...

JayRoam

^Accords aren't typically considered a track car due to the weight and "floaty" handling. TSX's and Integras are much more nimble in this regard, and would be much more suitable for autocrossing.

ThirdLane

I am really wondering if Acura would release a SH-AWD TSX. It would be nice and if they do I would definitely buy it. But I doubt Acura HQ has the balls to release it.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

IMO, they will.

1- the chassis is totally designed for it, as is the engine bay large enough for a V6.
2- I don't think the 'base' TSX would have been such a benign upgrade if they were not planning to release a sports TSX model. With the success of the TL-S, I don't see why they would not make a TSX-S as well.

Of course, who knows until the car comes out, right?

Marcus

LuvMyTSX

Some people have said that the large engine bay is actually to fit the diesel engine since it is pretty big. However, a V6 model would be fantastic, as would AWD.