Originally Posted by Ozzman

Seriously though, why would anyone trust the obviously salesman-like opinion of some dude with 8 posts? Do your own research if a certain battery is that important to you. This guy is obviously here to sell batteries or to justify to himself that he has bought this battery.

Originally Posted by jiggaman

where is the OP?

Originally Posted by PJS

God, you're such a cynical bunch........

Originally Posted by rmpage

The guy's technically unsupportable claims didn't help his case either. As JTso already explained, once the engine is running the battery is more or less irrelevant because the alternator's output voltage is higher - the battery then becomes a load on the electrical system, not a source. I'm sure the product works just fine, but being solicited in such a disingenuous manner can be insulting to some.

Originally Posted by poltergeist

If by "malevolent" you mean I actually read the thread and only respond when I know what I'm talking about then you're right....guilty as charged. And this quote has the most malevolence of any in this thread so far "Let me be the first to call BS on your existence.... Post #11.

P.S. Did you draw your pictures yet?

Originally Posted by jiggaman

hey i posted in that thread too marcus, don't take it personal

Originally Posted by PJS

Apart from no direct link to the battery's site, (which is devoid of any information other than weight, CCA, and dimensions) I can't possibly think why members didn't flock to that thread and buy one for every family member.

Maybe they didn't have enough info on which to base a decision?
Maybe the site didn't sell them on the battery? It certainly hasn't for me!
Maybe they were looking for more CCA?
Maybe they've been conditioned to believe Optima is the automatic choice when spending more than $100 on a new battery?

Originally Posted by timd38

Interstate battery can get it for you if they don't have it in stock.

Originally Posted by jiggaman

i just talked with someone at Optima and they said that they are not re-releasing the 51R yet....

Originally Posted by timd38

I spent all day yesterday with the Dir of Marketing for Opitma and he told me the first shipments are going out in the next couple of weeks. Advance Auto and Interstate have already product on order.

Originally Posted by PJS

You see, most of that I glossed over and skim read without giving a second thought to.
Battery didn't really float my boat, Odyssey and Braille being what I'm interested in for now, so maybe that's why I didn't see why certain members were jumping up and down screaming blue murder for.

Of course my "argument" with the malevolent spirited one probably drew some of my focus away from Alan's remarks about improvements over and above engine starting ease, and longevity of battery due to deep cycle capabilities.

Originally Posted by nrgcell.com

Car Battery Tech and NRGCELL Capabilities
Most automotive enthusiasts are familiar with the term "Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)" as the rating that you look for when buying a battery. But how many of them really know what this number means? What about the variations of this rating you see out there? CA, MCA, HCA? And is comparing this number to the stock battery a good way of determining your cranking amp needs? This page is intended to resolve some of these questions for you!

A brief overview of electricity.
A battery is a device that is used to create electrical energy to operate some electrical device. It is basically made with lead plates that are in direct contact with a sulfuric acid solution. The solution is liquid in a lead-acid battery, and it is a dry solution in a dry cell battery. When connected to a circuit, a battery will being to release a flow of electricity into the circuit to do some sort of work. Electricity flows with two properties. Volts and Amps.

Voltage is the amount of force the battery has to push the electricity though the circuit. Voltage is like the torque of the battery. Nearly all automotive applications run with a 12V system in place. All NRGCELL Batteries are 12 Volt batteries.

Naturally, to do work, some voltage is used up and that translates to a resistance in the circuit. Simply put, the amount of volts that come back to the battery after it goes through the circuit is less than the amount that was output in the first place. Also, it should be known that batteries have an internal resistance as well (similar to an engine that not only experiences drivetrain loss, but also internal friction; both of which reduce the amount of torque the engine can actually output to the wheels).

Amperage is measure of current in a circuit, the speed of electrical flow. The higher the amps, the faster electricity will flow out of the battery. So different batteries will have different amperage rating depending on the vehicle requirements.

If high school physics left any impression, one may be familiar with Ohm's law, where Current(I) is equal to the amount of Voltage(V) divided by the Resistance(Ω, or R).

I=V/R

Now let's think about our automotive application.
The voltage will be the same for all car batteries (12V). The Resistance is not likely to change (you car will likely always have similar R value over time, so we will call R constant). And there is a minimum amount of current we need to fit this equation. Automotive Engineers know that they have to take many circumstances into consideration when choosing a battery size for any given car. It is recommended that the automotive performance enthusiast use the same guild lines when choosing a battery

* Cold Cranking Amps: Cars that live in colder climates; a cold battery will have a higher internal resistance, therefore being deficient in voltage for starting. Batteries do not like it cold. It hinders the chemical reaction a battery uses to create electricity. At 32°F a battery's capacity is reduced 35%. At 0°F, capacity is down 60%! It is for this reason the Automotive Council developed the Cold Cranking Amp rating to define a battery's ability to start an engine in cold temperatures. The CCA rating is the amount of amperage a brand new, fully charged battery can output AT 0°F FOR A FULL 30 SECONDS while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts. I have placed emphasis to give some idea of the strain a battery is under at it's CCA rating. If we do some backwards math we can say that a battery such as the NRGCELL Original (360 CCA) will have 600 amps available for startup. Practically speaking, we can say that a car the has a stock battery rating of 600 CCA, that battery will start the car if it is 0°F outside. And at normal temperature (call it 65-85 °F) the NRGCELL Original will start the same car. 360CCA may sounds low, but it is a sufficient amount of energy to use in a car that, presumably, will primarily driven when the weather is above freezing temperatures! Therefore, the CCA rating is only really best used as a guideline unless you DRIVE in these colder temperatures.
* Battery Capacity: Cars that are not driven regularly; a sitting car will slowly drain the battery of it's power over time, dropping the voltage available for starting. This capacity is defined by the amount of amperage that a battery can dole out over time. This is the Amp Hour (Ah) rating. For example, a 50Ah battery will be able to power a 1 amp device for 50 hours, continuously without being disconnected or recharged. So, the time it takes for your battery to drain depends on whether or not your car has an excessive parasitic draw. For reference, the EXPECTED Parasitic draw for a 92 Honda Civic is around 10 mA, or .01 amps. The stock Civic Battery is rated at about 40 aH. If you just let a 92 Civic sit without every starting it, the battery would die in 4000 hours, or about 5 1/2 months. Let's compare again with a NRGCELL Original, which is rated at 13 Ah. The NRGCELL Original will die in about 1300 hours, or almost 2 months. You have to keep in mind though, that below 10 volts the battery will not have enough power to start the car. The longest you should expect to let your car sit without running and leaving the battery connected is 12-14 days in the case of an NRGCELL Original. And so we have exposed the true compromise in optioning a small racing battery. You can expect to save about 15-20 lbs by switching to a smaller battery, but letting the car sit for long periods of time is not possible. Notice though, that the sitting time is still very reasonable for a daily driver. In fact, if you drive your car every day, you can expect an NRGCELL battery to last a very long time.
* Battery Capacity x2: People use electrical accessories when the car is not running; for example, listening to the radio with the ignition switch on the ACC position without the engine running. It should be that this is an obvious extension on the first point; one needs to be weary of the battery's Ah rating! If you have the car sitting with the headlights on, you are drawing 15 amps on the battery. Obviously, the battery, any battery, will die at a very fast rate with this sort of draw. The best thing to do here is make sure you don't run any accessories with the engine off.

So, what sort of person would buy an NRGCELL Racing Battery?
Inherent to upgrading a vehicle, one should expect to incur some losses along with some enhancements. NRGCELL is trying to accomplish a significant performance advantage while limiting the compromises to those with which we can live. Intakes increase power, brakes improve stopping, and sway bars enhance handling. But weight is the one thing that holds back every aspect of vehicle performance. Some car's performance levels are dependent on light weight. A car battery is a necessary vehicle component. It cannot be removed, and unfortunately is heavy by nature due to a high lead content. With an NRGCELL battery, there is a lot of performance for the weight. To draw the previous Civic comparison, the stock battery is around 450 CCA with an approximate weight of 26lbs. Thus, you have 17.3 amps per pound of battery. An NRGCELL Original at 11.5 lbs. is running around 31.3 amps per pound of battery. NRGCELL Batteries are much more efficient and provide more power pound per pound than conventional batteries.

How batteries die.
Of course, with normal use, a battery life will reduce over time. We normally expect 3-5 years of service life in an automotive application. But three factors; Heat, overcharging, and deep discharge conspire to reduce the expected service life of a power cell.

* Heat is a major problem for battery life. Because electricity is formed based on a chemical reaction, heat adds extra energy to the equation, fueling the chemical reaction. This results in an overproduction of electricity and contributes to corrosion of the electrolytic plates and self-overcharging.
* Overcharging is a situation where the battery is given charge after it has reached its capacity. Overcharging can lead to explosion or cause irreversible damage to both the battery and the charger that overcharged it. Overcharged batteries will swell before they explode. If your battery has been overheated or overcharged, it will be fairly obvious.
* Deep discharge is very bad for batteries because with every charge and discharge of the battery, material is removed from the lead plates inside the battery. When material is excessively shed from the lead plates holes can develop that will reduce surface area of the plate causing lower electricity production. When left for longer periods of time, lead that leaves the plates goes into solution to form a lead sulfate buildup on the surface of the plate that inhibits electrical production even further. The lead sulfate crystals are very difficult to breakup during charging and can permanently impact the function of the battery.

Battery Maintenance
Battery Charging is another important issue to consider when using a battery. When a battery runs low on power and is incapable of starting the engine, the first inclination is to charge it back up. What people fail to realize is that once the battery has died, it is less likely to come back to life for every day it rests dead. Typically a car will sit for a week. Then two weeks. Then pretty soon two months. In this time, the battery is drained beyond the point of revival. Lead sulfate buildup and plate deterioration degrade charging the battery to a fruitless activity. Even if enough surface charge is put in the cells to start the car once, the battery is no longer generating its own charge and will be dead the next time it's power is demanded. In the end, if a battery needs to be charged, it is because it was being drawn on too much for too long, and NRGCELL considers this ABUSE. The battery may come back, but then again, it may not!

In general, NRGCELL Racing Batteries recommends that the typical user avoid attempting to charge an NRGCELL Battery. Charging a dead battery is like taking an engine that has seized due to oil starvation and attempting to fix it by overfilling it with oil. Even if the engine will start, it has been permanently damaged. Due to the highly engineered materials inside NRGCELL recommends making battery maintenance a priority.

NRGCELL has developed a specialized Battery Conditioner that is designed to be permanently attached to the battery and plugged in when the car is going to sit for more than a week. The NRGCELL Battery Conditioner actively charges and conditions the battery plates as needed. Even conventional trickle chargers are not ideal as they are prone to overcharging. They don't typically have provisions to shut off when the battery has reached ideal charge. Instead the continuously supply a very small amperage to combat the draw of the car.

The NRGCELL Battery Conditioner is a smart unit that takes many factors into consideration as it operates. It can vary the input current between charging and floating functions and can be left on the battery indefinitely without the risk of overcharging. It also has an automatic conditioning function that actively breaks up lead sulfate crystals, helping to revive deeply discharged batteries. Because of widely varying user conditions it is impossible to gurantee battery performance for all people over the course of 4 years. The NRCGELL Battery Conditioner is an integral part of the NRGCELL 4-Year Warranty program.

NRGCELL hopes with page has been useful in helping to understand a little more about battery technology in automotive use. The information provided should help you choose a battery and charger that will be ideal for your needs!

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

You are a pretty sensitive guy it seems...

Originally Posted by Alan Briggs

I am not impressed with many of the participants of this community who are opinionated bigots that only provide commentary to exercise their poor skills in aggravated criticism. I am sure these people know who they are where I intend no offense to any other readers of this. If these obnoxious participants had made any intelligent points, in their comments, on my previous contributions I would have responded with the electrical measurements i had made on AGM batteries in car system circuits. I would also have submitted the videos I had made, along with spectral analysis, on the engine combustion inside the cylinders of my Acura Legend Coupe. However, i anticipated that the only kind of interest this would generate from your community idiots is that I had made all these engineering measurements and scientific observations up. So I could not be bothered.