Advanced VTEC Engine in Euro R Accord
09-26-2006, 04:04 PM
#1
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Advanced VTEC Engine in Euro R Accord
Honda Develops Advanced VTEC Engine
Source: Honda
September 25, 2006
Article Images
[Honda Advanced VTEC]
[Honda Advanced VTEC]
(Click to Enlarge)
TOCHIGI, Japan 09/25/2006 -- Honda Motor Co., Ltd. has further advanced its VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System) technology with the development of the Advanced VTEC engine, which achieves high performance along with outstanding fuel economy and lower emissions. The new engine combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with the continuously variable phase control of VTC (Variable Timing Control). Honda plans to release a production vehicle equipped with the new engine within three years.
This new system permits optimum control over intake valve lift and phase in response to driving conditions, achieving improved charging efficiency for a significant increase in torque at all engine speeds. Under low to medium load levels, the valves are set for low lift and early closure to reduce pumping losses and improve fuel economy.
In combination with optimized intake components, these advances in control technology result in world-class dynamic performance along with approximately 13 percent* improvement in fuel economy. The new engine is also exceptionally clean, with exhaust emissions that meet both U.S. Environmental Protection Agency LEV2-ULEV regulations and Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport requirements for Low-Emission Vehicles, with emission levels 75 percent lower than those required by the 2005 standards (based on Honda calculations).
Source: Honda
September 25, 2006
Article Images
[Honda Advanced VTEC]
[Honda Advanced VTEC]
(Click to Enlarge)
TOCHIGI, Japan 09/25/2006 -- Honda Motor Co., Ltd. has further advanced its VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System) technology with the development of the Advanced VTEC engine, which achieves high performance along with outstanding fuel economy and lower emissions. The new engine combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with the continuously variable phase control of VTC (Variable Timing Control). Honda plans to release a production vehicle equipped with the new engine within three years.
This new system permits optimum control over intake valve lift and phase in response to driving conditions, achieving improved charging efficiency for a significant increase in torque at all engine speeds. Under low to medium load levels, the valves are set for low lift and early closure to reduce pumping losses and improve fuel economy.
In combination with optimized intake components, these advances in control technology result in world-class dynamic performance along with approximately 13 percent* improvement in fuel economy. The new engine is also exceptionally clean, with exhaust emissions that meet both U.S. Environmental Protection Agency LEV2-ULEV regulations and Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport requirements for Low-Emission Vehicles, with emission levels 75 percent lower than those required by the 2005 standards (based on Honda calculations).
09-26-2006, 04:19 PM
#3
mrgold35
Sounds like the economy version of our K24. Is it made for US/europe Honda accord market or is there a US TSX version? Is the engine 2.0L, 2.3L or 2.4L. I wounder what the hp/tq numbers, mpgs, and torque curve look like compared to our K24.
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09-26-2006, 04:58 PM
#9
Racer
Originally Posted by acn684
I believe its still an 06...?
Now that Advanced VTEC has continuously variable lift, phase, and timing I believe honda has everything that BMW's Double Vanos has and maybe a little more since double vanos does not alter phase? I had been under the impression before that i-VTEC altered lift, phase, and timing while double vanos merely altered lift and timing. can anyone confirm?
09-26-2006, 05:10 PM
#10
Racer
I guess the best thing to do would be to make a chart. But I don't know how to fill all of it in.
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
09-26-2006, 05:17 PM
#11
Racer
Originally Posted by hahaitzskippy
advanced vtec vs i-vtec
on the topic of power... which is better?
spose from the text, the advanced vtec is better... i wonder if its gonna be building off i-vtec or different
on the topic of power... which is better?
spose from the text, the advanced vtec is better... i wonder if its gonna be building off i-vtec or different
09-26-2006, 05:47 PM
#12
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by stewie20068
I guess the best thing to do would be to make a chart. But I don't know how to fill all of it in.
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
And what you are describing above is for Valvetronic. Vanos is only variable cam phasing, while double vanos is on both intake and exhaust.
I'm interested in seeing how Honda implements Advanced VTEC. For Valvetronic, the valvetrain mass is increased, so there are more losses at high RPM. That's the reason Valvetronic is used on the smaller non-performance engine and not on the S series engines.
09-26-2006, 05:59 PM
#13
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I read on another forum that it is believed to be a SOHC motor instead of DOHC for use in cars like the fit and other small cars.
09-26-2006, 06:36 PM
#14
Racer
Originally Posted by aaronng
i-vtec has variable phase by changing intake cam phasing.
And what you are describing above is for Valvetronic. Vanos is only variable cam phasing, while double vanos is on both intake and exhaust.
I'm interested in seeing how Honda implements Advanced VTEC. For Valvetronic, the valvetrain mass is increased, so there are more losses at high RPM. That's the reason Valvetronic is used on the smaller non-performance engine and not on the S series engines.
And what you are describing above is for Valvetronic. Vanos is only variable cam phasing, while double vanos is on both intake and exhaust.
I'm interested in seeing how Honda implements Advanced VTEC. For Valvetronic, the valvetrain mass is increased, so there are more losses at high RPM. That's the reason Valvetronic is used on the smaller non-performance engine and not on the S series engines.
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuously variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos with Valvetronic
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
09-26-2006, 06:46 PM
#15
Someone stole "My Garage"
Originally Posted by stewie20068
the difference in advanced VTEC and i-VTEC is that i-VTEC merely had two cam profiles. Once was for fuel economy; the other was for power. that's why you felt a difference when the engine changed profiles (at 6000rpm in the TSX). The continuously variable profiles will gradually change lift and timing so you are always on the optimum profile. I believe this is correct.
Advanced VTEC sounds like an infinitely-variable cam profile (would this be camless -- hydraulic cam's?)
09-26-2006, 06:49 PM
#16
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
I read on another forum that it is believed to be a SOHC motor instead of DOHC for use in cars like the fit and other small cars.
09-26-2006, 07:04 PM
#17
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ok. vtec is technology where an engine has dual camshafts that will make a fuel economic engine perform like a racing one at high rpm. a sohc engine only has dual cams(vtec) on its intake valves (pretty much all honda cars). dohc engine have dual cams(vtec) on both the intake and exhaust values, thus more of a power change in vtec (integra type r and nsx...). now, i-vtec is technology that is designed to push more output out of a smaller engine. also to make it feasiable for the i-vtec hardware and the engine to fit under the hood of a car. now i-vtec is technology that can program the "phase timing" or in other words change the elasped time between the intake valve closing and exhasut value opening. i-vtec is i think only limited to a certain amount of degrees that it can control when the intake and exhaust values open and close. the Advance vtec i guess say its continuous which i guess can limit up to 360 degrees of the vtc.
p.s. not much advancment bec i-vtec is kinda the same thing..but its progress which is good.
p.s. not much advancment bec i-vtec is kinda the same thing..but its progress which is good.
09-26-2006, 07:16 PM
#19
Pro
It probably uses a variable rocker ratio or something to achieve the variable lift. It looks like the timing cover still has the hump for the VTC pulley on the intake side.
Note that there's no power steering pump on that engine--perhaps Honda is finally dumping it?
Note that there's no power steering pump on that engine--perhaps Honda is finally dumping it?
09-26-2006, 07:23 PM
#21
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by stewie20068
is the phasing for i-VTEC continuously variable? that's what I'm curious to know. oh yeah I forgot its Double Vanos with Valvetronic. when you say S series are you talking about BMW engines?
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuously variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos with Valvetronic
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
i-VTEC
phase: ?
intake lift: dual cam profiles
intake opening duration: dual cam profiles
exhaust lift: dual cam profiles
exhaust opening duration: dual cam profiles
Advanced VTEC
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuously variable profiles
intake opening duration: ?
exhaust lift:?
exhaust opening duration:?
Double Vanos with Valvetronic
phase: continuously variable profiles
intake lift: continuosly variable profiles
intake opening duration: none
exhaust lift: continuously variable profiles
exhaust opening duration: none
There are M and S engines. S engines are the ones used in the high performance models like the M3 and M5/6. The M engines on the regular models are the ones with valvetronic. S engines use only double Vanos because they have to rev higher.
09-26-2006, 07:24 PM
#22
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by curls
I could be wrong, but doubt I am... VTEC and i-VTEC both have two cam profiles... its just that i-VTEC has variable phase/timing due to VTC (intake cam timing change mechanism).
Advanced VTEC sounds like an infinitely-variable cam profile (would this be camless -- hydraulic cam's?)
Advanced VTEC sounds like an infinitely-variable cam profile (would this be camless -- hydraulic cam's?)
09-26-2006, 07:28 PM
#23
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by gcjin2007
ok. vtec is technology where an engine has dual camshafts that will make a fuel economic engine perform like a racing one at high rpm. a sohc engine only has dual cams(vtec) on its intake valves (pretty much all honda cars). dohc engine have dual cams(vtec) on both the intake and exhaust values, thus more of a power change in vtec (integra type r and nsx...).
There are also Honda DOHC engines with vtec only on the intake cams.
Originally Posted by gcjin2007
now i-vtec is technology that can program the "phase timing" or in other words change the elasped time between the intake valve closing and exhasut value opening. i-vtec is i think only limited to a certain amount of degrees that it can control when the intake and exhaust values open and close. the Advance vtec i guess say its continuous which i guess can limit up to 360 degrees of the vtc.
p.s. not much advancment bec i-vtec is kinda the same thing..but its progress which is good.
p.s. not much advancment bec i-vtec is kinda the same thing..but its progress which is good.
BTW, if you have VTC that goes 360 degrees, you'll have munched valves.
09-26-2006, 07:31 PM
#24
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by junktionfet
Note that there's no power steering pump on that engine--perhaps Honda is finally dumping it?
09-26-2006, 07:32 PM
#25
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by KYTSX
how come honda doesn't have similar setup on the exhaust side?
09-26-2006, 08:35 PM
#26
Racer
Originally Posted by aaronng
Intake cam phasing for i-VTEC is handled by VTC, and yes, it is continuously variable. It's adjusted through the cam gear.
There are M and S engines. S engines are the ones used in the high performance models like the M3 and M5/6. The M engines on the regular models are the ones with valvetronic. S engines use only double Vanos because they have to rev higher.
There are M and S engines. S engines are the ones used in the high performance models like the M3 and M5/6. The M engines on the regular models are the ones with valvetronic. S engines use only double Vanos because they have to rev higher.
09-26-2006, 08:42 PM
#27
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by stewie20068
how about lift and duration on the exhaust side? is honda just going "advanced" for the intake side and leaving the exhaust with the dual cam profile?
Looking at their past VTEC developments, they usually apply it on the exhaust side for performance models. So if there is a performance model requiring a major upgrade and facelift, they might apply advanced vtec on the exhaust.
Best source would be from Honda, not me.
09-26-2006, 08:52 PM
#28
Racer
Originally Posted by aaronng
It's not mentioned if there is conventional VTEC on the exhaust side, but I am guessing no.
Looking at their past VTEC developments, they usually apply it on the exhaust side for performance models. So if there is a performance model requiring a major upgrade and facelift, they might apply advanced vtec on the exhaust.
Best source would be from Honda, not me.
Looking at their past VTEC developments, they usually apply it on the exhaust side for performance models. So if there is a performance model requiring a major upgrade and facelift, they might apply advanced vtec on the exhaust.
Best source would be from Honda, not me.
09-26-2006, 09:39 PM
#29
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by stewie20068
yeah I've been looking around honda's stuff, but they don't seem to be very specific so far. I wonder how much more output we'll see in the advanced engine's midrange. I mean do you think at least 30 horses around 5k since hondata accomplishes 25hp with just a backup of the VTEC point on the i-VTEC?
Hondata makes 25hp at 5000rpm by leaning out the stock rich fuel maps as well as advancing the timing as far as it can go at WOT. Power is not made because the cam change point is lowered to 5000rpm. It just so happens that with Hondata's fuel maps, the optimum cam change point was 5000rpm instead of 6000rpm.
09-28-2006, 12:16 PM
#31
^
http://www.wwwearables.com/techniques/color.htm
RED
Like: Just as red sits on top of the rainbow, you like to stay on top of things. You have a zest for life. Remember that red can speed up the pulse, increase the respiration rate and raise blood pressure. It is associated with fire, heat, and blood, so it is impossible to ignore. And so are you (or would like to be).
The key words associated with red are winner, achiever, intense, impulsive, active, competitive, daring, aggressive and passionate. Red people are exciting, animated, optimistic, emotional and extroverted. Desire is the key word, they hunger for fullness of experience and living.
Now that you have all the good news, let's hear it for the bad news. Since you crave so much excitement in your life, routine can drive you bananas. Restlessness can make you fickle in your pursuit of new things to turn you on. It is hard for you to be objective and you can be opinionated. You have a tendency to listen to what others tell you and then do whatever you please. Patience is not one of your virtues.
However, you are an exciting person to be with, and always stimulating. The world would be a dull place without red people.
Like: Just as red sits on top of the rainbow, you like to stay on top of things. You have a zest for life. Remember that red can speed up the pulse, increase the respiration rate and raise blood pressure. It is associated with fire, heat, and blood, so it is impossible to ignore. And so are you (or would like to be).
The key words associated with red are winner, achiever, intense, impulsive, active, competitive, daring, aggressive and passionate. Red people are exciting, animated, optimistic, emotional and extroverted. Desire is the key word, they hunger for fullness of experience and living.
Now that you have all the good news, let's hear it for the bad news. Since you crave so much excitement in your life, routine can drive you bananas. Restlessness can make you fickle in your pursuit of new things to turn you on. It is hard for you to be objective and you can be opinionated. You have a tendency to listen to what others tell you and then do whatever you please. Patience is not one of your virtues.
However, you are an exciting person to be with, and always stimulating. The world would be a dull place without red people.
09-28-2006, 01:42 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
I read on another forum that it is believed to be a SOHC motor instead of DOHC for use in cars like the fit and other small cars.
You're right. Look at the end of the valve cover... looks like one Cam gear.
09-28-2006, 01:42 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Zoopa
I find it interesting how the engineers at Honda/Acura like to use Milano Red when they show case new technology, in this case a more efficient, powerful and advanced engine.
Because they know it's the Euro Accord's/TSX's best color
09-28-2006, 08:19 PM
#34
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by moda_way
You're right. Look at the end of the valve cover... looks like one Cam gear.
The DOHC i-VTEC I engine also had that bump for the VTC. Haven't you all seen an SOHC Honda engine before? The entire end has a round profile.
Right side on this pic:
09-29-2006, 12:36 AM
#35
Pro
Originally Posted by moda_way
You're right. Look at the end of the valve cover... looks like one Cam gear.
09-29-2006, 12:57 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by stewie20068
my feeling is that advanced vtec is merely i-vtec updated with continuously varaible lift and phasing.
09-30-2006, 06:01 AM
#38
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by stewie20068
my feeling is that advanced vtec is merely i-vtec updated with continuously varaible lift and phasing.
09-30-2006, 05:56 PM
#40
Race Director
Originally Posted by EuRTSX
wowowow, 06 wheels on a 04-05. looks niceeee
