AC TL

I saw a white tsx today...pulled up behind it to see something odd......The "A" on the back had been replaced with a "H"......instead of TSX...the letters read "Accord".......this is about the 5th car iv'e seen thats an acura that has been made into a "honda".....saw about 4 or so RSX' that said "integra" on them with a big "H" symbol on the back.Im a kid and even I wouldnt do this...if anythin...debadge it.

Precision Crafted

Weird :shakehd: I've never seen that however I've seen Hondas rebadged as Acuras.

As for the RSX thing, well I guess some still find it hard that their beloved car has a new name.

I wonder when the Grand Am is renamed if GA lovers will do the same.

soopa

If I had/get a TSX I would badge it as a Honda.

any Acura built in Japan I would badge a Honda.


I wouldnt go so far as to put Accord on it. But I would put the H badge on.


If I get a TSX it will be white and I will go JDM.

jackspat2

Acura Accord

I've seen the same thing around here. I don't think it's that bad.

ssm_tsx

There's a really nice "honda" integra around here. The guy went all out and it really does look JDM.

Brad

Perhaps those who put "H's" or "Accord" over their Acuras are making a statement about their cars' trueness and authenticity.

The Acura nameplate is but a marketing label that Honda uses only in the North American market.

Very close variants to the US-Market Acura TSX are the Asia-Pacific market Euro Accord Luxury and the European market Accord Type S and Executive models.

I wouldn't mind it the least if my on-order TSX had Honda and Accord labels on it. That's what it would be called everywhere outside of North America. I'm no slave to utterly superficial marketing perceptions.

I guess some people cannot believe what a fine car range the Accord platform offers, from a plane Jane family sedan to something exciting. The Acura RL and CL are Accord-based. Aren't the Odessy, MDX, and Pilot also based on an Accord-derived platforms? Does a superficial piece of plastic label with certain letters on it make it less worthy?

Fooman

I did this once to my Integra, putting the red H emblems on. Other mods were Type R spoiler and 17" rims, the rest was stock. When I went to the local Autozone here, the guys in there were asking what kind of car it was. One guy insisted on it being an Integra even though it had the H emblem while the other person insisted that Honda didn't make Integras and what I was driving was some new Honda.

I was like uh.......

granted that this was a while back ago....

They asked to look at my car and I remember them saying "It has the H emblem, but it has the Acura logo on the steering wheel". They had this confused look on their face.

And no, they weren't being sarcastic.....they were just truly uninformed and perhaps lived in a cave.

Brad

That' funny, "perhaps lived in a cave"!

Is Autozone a dealership?

I've read about "Detroit" (namely Ford and Chryzler) assembly plants mix-matching parts and name plates. Years ago, someone took delivery of a Dodge and found Dodge nameplates on one side of the car and Plymouth nameplates on the other.

I'm surprised at how controversial--especially attitude-wise--this topic is. Some people imply something inherently "superior" of Acura labels over Honda labels. I'm sure that Acura marketing are in glee over some people's perceptions and confusion about that.

Perhaps they should visit the Honda main Web site in Australia, where they can readily see legitimate Honda Integras, Honda Legends, Honda MDX's, and yes Honda Euro Accord L's (which are nearly a complete mirror image) our vaunted Acura TSX except for minor spec differences (such as 16" wheels, RHD, standard fog, extra-cost AT, etc.).

TWong1200

I see it everywhere here in the LA area. It's somewhat common. I don't think it's too bad ONLY when you have a car that totally JDM'd out. That's when the cars looks pretty sweet. But when you see some ricer with a freakin' shoppin' car spoiler on, and an "H" badge, it makes me laugh and say, "you couldn't pay me to be in that car."

Fooman

No, Autozone is chain of automotive parts store. Funny, but they recently started carrying Fast and Furious products. I guess they wanted to cash in on this stupid craze.

While I maintain that Acura and Honda are one in the same, I can testify that their service department is not. The Honda service departments that I've been to are no where near the same type of service I get from the Acura dealer. I believe this also has a slight impact on retaining repeat customers. Maybe this perpetuates the whole Acura superiority over Honda complex.

The same can be said about Lexus and Toyota.

Off topic here, but I just read in the July issue of Motor Trend that the new Saturn Vue Red Line series will be using Honda V6 engine and the Honda 5spd transmission. I wonder if Saturn owners will put the Honda emblem on their car.

Brad

I take my Honda to an independent service facility, although for over 10 years, I took my Hondas to the Honda dealer for servicing without any major problems or bad service.

Regarding the Saturn, that's interesting. A few years ago Honda and GM signed a technology exchange agreement. Analysts figured that GM would benefit from Honda's superiority in engine design and engineering, but what could Honda get from GM in exchange? That was a mystery. Some speculation was that Honda would have access to GM's V8 engines for use in some future product.

I don't know if this is in the same vein of technology exchange, but the Isuzu-built Honda-badged Passport SUV wagons and the not-missed-at-all Izusu-built Acura-badged large SUVs (SLX?? forgot name) had engines made by whom? Were they Honda engines, Isuzu-built engines, or GM Holden (Australia) engines? (GM Holden exports vehicle engines to Japan, Korea, and maybe even the US.)

bowersan

SLX? what the heck is that?

Sorry, im a youngin and a canadian... its not my fault!

J.

iNteGraz92

SLX is a rebadged isuzu trooper

1killercls

JDM>Acura IMO

soopa

exactly...

like i said... if i had a TSX... i wouldnt go so far as to rename the model.

but i would definately replace the (A) with (H) and take off all the other badges including model insignia.

OldieTSX

I rebadged by integra simply because I'm military and on assignment orders to Germany. I didn't want it to stand out too much from the other Honda Integras over there. That said, I doubt I'll do it with the TSX, gets a little expensive with the new grill, etc. BTW, my integra isn't "JDMd" out. Integras have been sold in Germany also, as Hondas.

GeorgeTSX

That is very strange. Although I respect the Honda name (I owned a Prelude for 12 years) I don't understand why someone would replace the badge and model name on a new TSX to Accord? Acura means prestige and TSX's are a rare care to be seen on the road currently. Whereas there is a bazillion Honda Accords out there. That just doesn't make sense why someone would go to the trouble.

TSX007

In my case I'm looking to rebadge my TSX to look like the Accord Euro-R. I prefer the the Front grille on the Euro-R but it wouldn't look correct if only the front was rebadged. Everything I need is sold at boomplustoys.net.

MrChad

I've already discussed this with Moda-Way. I'm a die-hard Accord freak, I was very pumped the Euro Accord was coming over. We are thinking about purchasing an Automatic TSX for the wife in a few years when some come back from lease. I've thought about replacing all things Acura with Honda on the car, even the Airbag and installing the 16" Standard Euro-Accord wheels and brakes. I'm just freaken weird like that. I bought my car over an New Si in 2000 solely because I was in love with the UK spec Accord type-R.

1SICKLEX

Its funny, we in the USA badge the cars JDM sometimes and in Japan, they love to put on the Acura or Lexus/Infiniti badges. We are all nuts.

I would debadge it but I don't know if I would go so far as to put the Honda back on there. It would be kinda cool though

PimpDaddyKABZ

nothing shocking...
how many countless integra's have you seen with a honda badge?
and how about the dozens of RSX's with the Integra badges, Honda Badges, Integra door sills.

Its all part of the import craze that some kids don't understand whats complimented on and whats frowned upon.

GeorgeTSX

The worst one I have seen was some old ultra riced up car that someone put a BMW badge on.

PimpDaddyKABZ

You mean THIS little CRX?












so far this little Honda has BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, all on a Honda.

larchmont

Sorry to reveal my ignorance again, but -- wtf is JDM?

I see you can put it through interesting conjugations, like "JDM'd out."

InspireS

Soopa,

You took the words right outta my mouth....great minds think alike!

Cheers!


InspireS

InspireS

vwong

Yeah...it's pretty common here in LA area. I see one everyday...my wrecked Integra. However, I wouldn't do the same with my TSX because I'm not planning on going too "mod crazy" with the TSX.

odessa

JDM - Japanese Domestic Market, cars made for sale and use inside Japan.

larchmont

Thanks Odessa, I needed that!

And, if it's not too much to ask, could you (or an esteemed colleague) finish the lesson for me?.....

What kind of stuff does that basically mean? Seems like it must be a pretty specific kind of thing, or else there couldn't be a concept like "JDM'd out."

MrChad

No JDM'd out means every mod is from Japan and is usually hard core as in -- not for sale in the US market. You can even use non-Honda aftermarket parts as long as they are 100% made in Japan sold in Japan. Hard core JDM guys will even go as far as to run Japanesse market parts that are OK in performance as long as no one else in the US has them. It's kinda like a one-up-manship kinda thing.

Brad

"Acura means prestige" only to the extent of superficial marketing in North America. It real terms, there is nothing unique or special about Acura, per se. The exact same Acura products are all Hondas outside of North America. The Honda label doesn't make the car of lesser prestige or quality. They are all good. Some people don't appreciate the superficial contrived "Acura" marketeering facade. Amazingly, someone on this forum said that Acura makes great cars! Acura makes nothing; it's a marketing organization. Honda makes everything. I love Honda products, and there's no added value or meaning to a totally contrived marketing label called "Acura".

Note that Acura marketeering abandoned perfectly good product names like Legend and Integra to give us "non-names" like RL, TL, CL, RSX, TSX, etc. What did that accomplish? It's smoked mirror marketing, IMHO.

larchmont

Very interesting post, Brad, and very well said. But is it totally true?

At first, indeed that's EXACTLY what I thought. When I say "at first," I'm talking about when "Acura" first came to the U.S. -- I'm guessing it was around 1986. (Am I close?) I remember thinking it was a joke that Honda was trying to pass these off as luxury cars, and that they were charging $20,000 for what were really Hondas. (At that time, $20,000 was a true luxury price.) But then the "image" took hold, and also it turned out the Acuras really were great cars, and they certainly seemed to be materially different from our Hondas. Somehow the idea crept in that Acuras were made "specially," at different places and by different people and with different expertise, and that everything was better -- and even to the present day I have carried around that belief, even about the TSX which as we know is the Euro Accord. I have actually been under the belief, and still am, that the TSX is significantly different from the Euro Accord in many ways. A couple of times on ClubTSX I put out the question specifically as to whether this is true, but nobody ever addressed it.

So really, I'm left scratching my head a bit, not being sure how true your assertion is. Even if you're technically right, isn't it true that there is a higher level of quality in Acura (with perhaps the best case example being TSX vs. the Euro Accord), to the point that even though it's all done by Honda, "Acura" really is essentially a different operation? That's what I've thought, and it seems perhaps to be consistent with what you say. And, if true, it means those of us who talk about Acura "making cars" are wrong only in terms of rigid semantics.

P.S. (Edit) How about an analogy: The New York Yankees run a major league baseball team, called the New York Yankees. They also run various minor league teams, the best being the Triple-A team, the Columbus Clippers. The Columbus Clippers don't run anything, really; they are run by the Yankees. But they are of different quality than what we know as the Yankees, they are worth less than what we know as the Yankees, and it wouldn't really be wrong to think of them as a different operation. In the case of Honda/Acura, it would be sort of the opposite, in that the "subsidiary" organization would be of the higher quality. But the idea is the same.

MrChad

No Acura is just a name. The only place were Acura exists is NA. If anything the truest Acura currently is likely the CL as it exist no were else in the world except NA. This may also hold true for the next TL. The MDX was an exclusive, however, it is now a Honda in Japan. Aside from the DVD Navi and Bose stereo offered in the Current gen TL it was hard tell it apart from the V6 EX Accord in quality. The leather on the seats and carpet was essentually the same. Honda's does not yet use true died leather as the Germans do.

Aside from HID's and Leather stabdard; it would be hard to tell a TSX apart from its over-seas brother in quality. After all do you think an RSX is better built then a JDM-UK Integra?

Acura is a Warranty package and complete dealer experience. It is nothing really more. Mechanically Acura = Honda. However, I must admit, I am treated better at the Acura's part counter then the Honda dealer. And I would prefer going to the Acura dealer over the Honda dealer for service. This is the reason I would likely purchase a base TL over a loaded Accord EX V6.

*note my Acura dealer and Honda dealer are owned by the same person. Not sure why the Acura is better at customer service. I figure it must be the image -- not that the Honda dealer is bad mind you.

Acura to me is a feeling example:

Honda experience =
Acura experience =
My Cheverolet's Service experience =

larchmont

Brad and Chad make a darn good tag-team.

So let me get this straight:

You mean there aren't separate Acura factories?

And that except for the headlights and the leather, there's no difference between TSX and Euro Accord????

Chad says it would be "hard" to tell them apart, but that's not really the Q. The Q is, CAN you tell them apart? Are there or aren't there differences under the hood, and if so, what are they? I keep asking, and no one gives a straight answer, maybe because none of us really know. (I sure don't.) But until someone can give facts to the contrary, I'm still believing in Santa Claus.

My impression has been that TSX does have fundamental differences from the Euro Accord, and that there are fundamental differences of (inner) quality between Acuras and U.S. Accords in general. I'd like to hear other opinions, and even more so, facts, about whether these are true. Brad and Chad, who seem to really know what they're talking about, clearly think I'm wrong. But what are the facts?

MrChad

There is no Acura factory.
Acura's are made in the same plants as Honda's.
Acuras are Hondas.

Acura is a badge and a dealership. There is no build quality difference. Go to the honda dealer and pop the hood of an EX 4 cylinder Accord and pop the hood of your TSX and be amazed at seeing the same thing.

larchmont

onsk

Is that really all there is to it?

(C'mon, isn't there anybody who can defend Santa Claus?)

odessa

While the Euro Accord and the TSX have the same body panels, there are more differences then just HID and the leather. The TSX has more HP and TQ, different wheels (17") and tires, suspension is stiffer by @5% (for once we have better suspension then Europeans), roll bars, instrument cluster and stereo different, there are different color combinations, etc. I am sure someone else can add to the list.
So while the built quality should be the same for the cars that come from the same factory in Japan as is the TSX, Honda also builds some (or all) English Accord in England, and if I remember correctly their projected sales for the Euro Accord was 17,000 units in Europe.
So the correct answer is: there are differences and then there are differences.

larchmont

Santa lives! Thanks Odessa.

O indicates he thinks there are also other differences between TSX and Euro Accord besides what he mentions.
Anyone else know about other specifics?

Also: From what you all say, I guess there's no escaping the fact that there are no "Acura" factories. :'( :'( :'( :'(
But, what about this: Within the same factories, are there separate (i.e. "special") assembly lines or areas for Acura as opposed to Honda? I know I'm stretching. But I'm really interested to know how totally true it is that "Acuras are just Hondas."

Not that that would be a bad thing.

MrChad

Look Mom, TSX version LX

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...arl/index.html

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...arl/index.html

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...oto-index.html

I'm partial to the cloth interior: no hot seat burns on 90' sunny days. I like the optional rear window wiper too.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...oto-index.html

Santa is dead my friends:
as 17" wheel are standard on the type-S model-oh no!
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-equipment/accord/index.html

There 2.4 liter engine is the same power as ours, you just have to do the conversion from PS to HP and Nm to torq.
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...ata/index.html

Boy that 2.0 liter lower power 4cylinder vtec might be nice -- as I could opt it up with All wheel drive
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...ype/index.html

I'm a big fan of the modulo option family of Honda's myself. Kinda like inhouse Mugen.
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCESS/automobiles/accord/

Oh and the Easter bunny is dead too!
The Accord Euro-R (Japan) actually is a smaller engine 2.0 liters.
But, it makes more ponies, and higer reves, figure around 220hp since PS and HP are nearly identical to a point.
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/accordeuro-r/
The Accord Euro-R seat you wish you had:
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...aro/index.html

This is a great car link to check out too:
http://www.honda.co.jp/INSPIRE/

There are no Acura factories, however, there likely is a day when the best workers were on the Japanesse assembly plant to make the special Accord models. They were likely Euro-R's. Why would I say this, Euro-R engines are hand built just like the S2000 and type-R Integra (RSX) engines. Yes boys and girls, this is the billy bad a$$ of all Accords.

As for making Accord models in England's Swindel plant. That ended with the Accord Type-R production. The Swindel plant no longer makes Accords. All UK Accords now come from mother Japan too. The Swindel plant makes all UK-JDM Civic hatches 3-5 doors even Civic type-R's for Japan.

I'm not putting down the TSX, I love this car and want one. The fact is, it's just a Japanesse built Accord spec'd for US consumption. There are no unique US parts save for the badge. They may not be able to opt for the Type-S engine and excutive leather, but they can build a USDM TSX in Japan alot easier then we can build a JDM Euro-R in America.

larchmont

Uh, does he win?

Since I don't understand Japanese very well (not to mention car-ese), I'm not in the same weight class with Chad, and I'd have to rely on his fellow heavyweights to take up the cudgel (not that I understand that word either).

The only things there that I really understood were "Santa" and "Easter bunny."