"Acura Music Link" (iPod) for TSX
#121
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
A disclaimer does not protect a merchant from the implied warranty of merchantability. They can say whatever they want in the disclaimer; it doesn't change the law.
"An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold"
Doesn't the disclaimer suggest they are not "guaranteeing" anything? Anyway, I'm not an attorney so I'm not trying to represent myself as such....
#122
My Garage
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
What I said is perfectly logical. The value of watch with a one year battery is something that can be determined.
If you answer yes to this you might was well jump off a bridge because you are insane.
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
But you purchased it as an option. It is not a part of the car. Can they really be liable for more than the option's cost? If so, can they be liable for more than the car's cost? Where does it end?
What I did purchase was a car that was advertised as having certain capabilities to connect with certain accessories. This capability was supposed to be part of the car.
I don't see how or why the cost of the accessory would have anything to do with this issue. The value of the promised capability is the issue.
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Originally Posted by Colin
From Wikipedia (ok I know it's not a legal journal, but this isn't a courtroom):
"An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold"
Doesn't the disclaimer suggest they are not "guaranteeing" anything? Anyway, I'm not an attorney so I'm not trying to represent myself as such....
"An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold"
Doesn't the disclaimer suggest they are not "guaranteeing" anything? Anyway, I'm not an attorney so I'm not trying to represent myself as such....
In other states, you can escape it only be explicitly and boldly listing that the good is being sold "As Is". Acura does not label or sell cars this way.
#125
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
In fact, I can't purchase the option.
What I did purchase was a car that was advertised as having certain capabilities to connect with certain accessories. This capability was supposed to be part of the car.
I don't see how or why the cost of the accessory would have anything to do with this issue. The value of the promised capability is the issue.
What I did purchase was a car that was advertised as having certain capabilities to connect with certain accessories. This capability was supposed to be part of the car.
I don't see how or why the cost of the accessory would have anything to do with this issue. The value of the promised capability is the issue.
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
so let me get this straight, if you buy a $100 watch with a $20 2 year battery in it included in the $100. The battery only last 1 year, you would expect a free battery and the percentage difference of the value of the watch without said battery returned to you. So you would expect $20 as well as a free battery?
If you answer yes to this you might was well jump off a bridge because you are insane.
If you answer yes to this you might was well jump off a bridge because you are insane.
If "2 year battery" means a battery that is promised to last at least 2 years, then I would expect the difference in value between a 1 year battery and a 2 year battery.
Now you've asked something about getting an extra battery in there somewhere. I'm not sure where the extra battery comes from. That would be redundant if you got the cash.
#127
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
In fact, I can't purchase the option.
What I did purchase was a car that was advertised as having certain capabilities to connect with certain accessories. This capability was supposed to be part of the car.
I don't see how or why the cost of the accessory would have anything to do with this issue. The value of the promised capability is the issue.
What I did purchase was a car that was advertised as having certain capabilities to connect with certain accessories. This capability was supposed to be part of the car.
I don't see how or why the cost of the accessory would have anything to do with this issue. The value of the promised capability is the issue.
#128
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Well, I've said my piece. Still just as amazed as when this thread started, but good luck with your fight.
#129
My Garage
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
Of course, we'd need to define what "2 year battery" means. If it means a battery with a mean life of two years and one year falls within the generally accepted range of life for a "2 year" battery, then there's no issue.
If "2 year battery" means a battery that is promised to last at least 2 years, then I would expect the difference in value between a 1 year battery and a 2 year battery.
Now you've asked something about getting an extra battery in there somewhere. I'm not sure where the extra battery comes from. That would be redundant if you got the cash.
If "2 year battery" means a battery that is promised to last at least 2 years, then I would expect the difference in value between a 1 year battery and a 2 year battery.
Now you've asked something about getting an extra battery in there somewhere. I'm not sure where the extra battery comes from. That would be redundant if you got the cash.
i bolded the most relevant thing, why wouldn't you want a refund on the watch itself? You bought a watch that was supposed to work a certain way and it didn't. The answer is because you were sufficiently compensated by the returned value of the battery.
Just as the returned value of the ipod interface is sufficient
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
As a percentage, how big a part was the availability of this accessory in your decision to purchase the car?
The issue is the difference in value between what was promised and what was given.
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
fair enough...1 year is not within the time period, the battery must last at least 2 years and not one day less.
i bolded the most relevant thing, why wouldn't you want a refund on the watch itself? You bought a watch that was supposed to work a certain way and it didn't. The answer is because you were sufficiently compensated by the returned value of the battery.
Just as the returned value of the ipod interface is sufficient
i bolded the most relevant thing, why wouldn't you want a refund on the watch itself? You bought a watch that was supposed to work a certain way and it didn't. The answer is because you were sufficiently compensated by the returned value of the battery.
Just as the returned value of the ipod interface is sufficient
I expect to compensated for the difference between the value of what was promised and what was delivered. This is true for the watch and it's true for the car. I'm not asking to be double compensated in either case.
#132
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
That's not a relevant question. Suppose the only car in the universe were the Acura TSX. The issue doesn't go away. The promise and obligation remain.
The issue is the difference in value between what was promised and what was given.
The issue is the difference in value between what was promised and what was given.
And if you're embarrassed because you realized you bought the car based solely on the fact that you thought this ridiculous accessory would be available, I understand too.
#133
6MT or Death
I just came across this thread as I was listening to my iPod in my 06 TSX through the aux input. My question is, what kind of a mental midget pays for an integration that costs the same as the product(the iPod itself) without doing any research? You deserve the irony God hath dealt you my son. sim simma.
I'm an oddity because i bought the car with the options I saw instead of the down-the-line-after-production product that seemed to be crap even before it was released. Does no one remember the threads before it was released that aptly defined this as most likely not worth it?
I appreciate the people who researched it and tried it anyway for the good of the group. I have no sympathy for anyone else. Sorry.
I'm an oddity because i bought the car with the options I saw instead of the down-the-line-after-production product that seemed to be crap even before it was released. Does no one remember the threads before it was released that aptly defined this as most likely not worth it?
I appreciate the people who researched it and tried it anyway for the good of the group. I have no sympathy for anyone else. Sorry.
#134
My Garage
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
The last sentence is a total non sequitur.
I expect to compensated for the difference between the value of what was promised and what was delivered. This is true for the watch and it's true for the car. I'm not asking to be double compensated in either case.
I expect to compensated for the difference between the value of what was promised and what was delivered. This is true for the watch and it's true for the car. I'm not asking to be double compensated in either case.
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
It's totally relevant. How much it calculated into your decision will determine just how valuable it was for you.
#136
Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
you said the price of the link should be refunded as well as the value difference in the car that allows for the capability to use the link should be refunded. Sounds like double compensation to me...
I want to give a shout out to Rick!
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
you said the price of the link should be refunded as well as the value difference in the car that allows for the capability to use the link should be refunded. Sounds like double compensation to me...
I'm talking about the car. People should be refunded once for the difference in the value of the car. I've said this so many times. Why do you keep thinking I'm saying something else?
#138
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
No. As I already explained the issue would remain if the TSX were the only car one could buy.
#140
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
If somebody actually purchased a link that doesn't work, they should be refunded for this. That's a separate event.
I'm talking about the car. People should be refunded once for the difference in the value of the car. I've said this so many times. Why do you keep thinking I'm saying something else?
I'm talking about the car. People should be refunded once for the difference in the value of the car. I've said this so many times. Why do you keep thinking I'm saying something else?
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Originally Posted by Colin
Just to be clear, Ron didn't actually BUY a music link right? He's upset because it's no longer available? This is thread is so long I've forgotten already.
I want to give a shout out to Rick!
I want to give a shout out to Rick!
The promised availability of the music link did enter into my discussions with the dealer about the value and price of the car.
#142
My Garage
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
If somebody actually purchased a link that doesn't work, they should be refunded for this. That's a separate event.
I'm talking about the car. People should be refunded once for the difference in the value of the car. I've said this so many times. Why do you keep thinking I'm saying something else?
I'm talking about the car. People should be refunded once for the difference in the value of the car. I've said this so many times. Why do you keep thinking I'm saying something else?
#143
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
The promised availability of the music link did enter into my discussions with the dealer about the value and price of the car.
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
And my question would still stand because it is not supposing you were looking at other cars. I want to know just how important this thing really is to you. So quit dodging the question.
If your question is whether I would have purchased the TSX anyway if Acura had explicitly said that the TSX would not work with the music link, then the answer is almost certainly yes. However, this simply has no effect on Acura's obligation.
FWIW, I've already said in this thread that if given the choice when I purchased the car, I would have paid at least $50 to have the option of adding the music link later. So, to me the capability is worth at least $50.
#145
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Because you refuse to tell us just what value you put on this particular ACCESSORY in your decision on purchasing the vehicle.
#146
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
We already know that. The question is, of what value was it to you. How much off the price of the car would you have expected if this weren't a feature in the first place?
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
So you are now saying that everyone that bought the 06 should get a partial refund for the incapability for the TSX to pair with the ipod link?
#148
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Originally Posted by Ron Parr
The question doesn't make sense. There was never a calculus in which individual features were given percentage scores. I don't even know how that would work. I can't answer a question about a nonsensical event that never occurred.
If your question is whether I would have purchased the TSX anyway if Acura had explicitly said that the TSX would not work with the music link, then the answer is almost certainly yes. However, this simply has no effect on Acura's obligation.
FWIW, I've already said in this thread that if given the choice when I purchased the car, I would have paid at least $50 to have the option of adding the music link later. So, to me the capability is worth at least $50.
If your question is whether I would have purchased the TSX anyway if Acura had explicitly said that the TSX would not work with the music link, then the answer is almost certainly yes. However, this simply has no effect on Acura's obligation.
FWIW, I've already said in this thread that if given the choice when I purchased the car, I would have paid at least $50 to have the option of adding the music link later. So, to me the capability is worth at least $50.
#149
Funny, till post #144 I don't recall any $ value placed on the lack of this feature
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
All this for $50? Sounds like a mountain out of a mole hill if you ask me.
You say, "all this." All what? Debating with you guys about consumer rights and the right way for a company to handle a $50 situation? Perhaps we call could have spent our time better, but that's often the nature of debates. People get interested in the issues and the sides that they support.
#152
6MT or Death
Originally Posted by Ron Parr
Acura could choose to deal with this obligation in several ways. It could be determined that the extra capability added $75 in value to each car, and that each customer who purchased the car with the belief that it was compatible with the music link is entitled to a $75 refund. .
page 5
now Ron's offering a discount.
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Originally Posted by Colin
Funny, till post #144 I don't recall any $ value placed on the lack of this feature
In 108, I mentioned the $50 figure.
#154
Yes, my apologies, I just re-read that (you beat me to it)
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So I have to say that I think all of this is very amusing. Of course, any kind of class action lawsuit would never happen, but I too was extremely disappointed when the music link turned out to be a bust. I'm not even going to begin to try an interpret the law related merits of a hypothetical case, but in the end, I have to applaud Ron for his patience in trying to explain the way he sees things. I'm getting frustrated just reading the logical fallacies thrown at him, and he's handling them like a pro.
#156
To me, the irony is if the interface worked in the TSX as it does in the TL, I feel he'd even more disappointed with implementation. IMO, this is a blessing in disguise!
#157
Everyone just chill out
Yes, very amusing thread indeed! I have had my car for a week now... after waiting more than 2 months for my PWP 6 MT Navi to arrive at my door.
I agreed that Acura dropped the ball on failing to integrate the Musiclink properly... hell, even if they couldn't do that, throw in the darn 3.5mm headphone wire... but anywho, everyone just needs to relax and enjoy what the rest of the car has to offer.
Get over your high horse and you will be a happier camper. Personally, I would've loved having IPOD integration as I love my music (THAT WOULD BE BEYOND COOL). At times though, looking down at the Navi screen a bit excessively can be dangerous. BUT the fact of the matter is, no matter what "that additional value" would be, I still love everything about the TSX. Period.
If you want to find a few more nitpicky things on top of the IPOD fiasco, see separate thread about lack of penholders.
I agreed that Acura dropped the ball on failing to integrate the Musiclink properly... hell, even if they couldn't do that, throw in the darn 3.5mm headphone wire... but anywho, everyone just needs to relax and enjoy what the rest of the car has to offer.
Get over your high horse and you will be a happier camper. Personally, I would've loved having IPOD integration as I love my music (THAT WOULD BE BEYOND COOL). At times though, looking down at the Navi screen a bit excessively can be dangerous. BUT the fact of the matter is, no matter what "that additional value" would be, I still love everything about the TSX. Period.
If you want to find a few more nitpicky things on top of the IPOD fiasco, see separate thread about lack of penholders.
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
I actually think it is a Apple product (I know the Acura name is on it, but Apple openly claims to be the producer).
I never said a refund for the entire product, a refund can be partial.
And you never answered the question
I never said a refund for the entire product, a refund can be partial.
And you never answered the question
#160
Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
I actually think it is a Apple product (I know the Acura name is on it, but Apple openly claims to be the producer).