Not Specified

I was recently shopping around for a car, and when i went into Audi, BMW and Lexus dealers and bring up the TL and the TSX, their response was that "Acura isn't really considered a high-end brand." I've heard this several times and I wonder why they say that? Does it have to do with FWD and badge engineering?

BRH

It probably has everything to do with the fact that they want to sell you THEIR car.

kyotousa

cuz Acura's dealerships look like piece shit
and RL can't match up with LS or 7 series or S class
TSX can't match up with IS and 3 series....C-Class kinda suck haha

why you choose Acura?...they are cheaper and they can almost match up with a car that cost 5K more...

xenonhid

that is MARKETING 101.

xenonhid

that is MARKETING 101

A Cake On

Regardless of whether others think it is a high-end brand or not, Acura is made better. I have never had anyone make that kind of comment around me though. Acura is pretty well respected to many in Chicago that I have come in contact with. I will take a Honda brand over anything German any day of the week.

I know multiple people that drive Mercedes cars and trucks, and they are constantly complaining about maint costs. Sometimes they brag, but they are quiet when their alternator goes out, and they have to shell out 1300 on a repair outside of warranty. That is when I really come to appreciate the 100,000 mile powertrain coverage on my certified pre-owned. So take your "high end" car and shove it I say!

kyotousa

ok man....so you gonna choose a car cuz maintainance now huh =_=|||

it's like choose civic 4dr over TSX

Washington

I wanted a car that would still be worth driving in ten years, so my search got limited to Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus pretty quickly. Also something that could be repaired at ubiquitous Honda or Toyota dealers in a pinch.

- Civic's too small; not exactly built for comfort

- IS way too small, particularly back seat. Otherwise, very similar to TSX

- Camry, Accord - yawn - didn't feel comfortable driving the Camry; it was pretty noisy. Didn't feel good looking at the Accord (apologies Accord drivers, I acknowledge that whether a car is attractive is just a matter of taste; a bit of tint and some nice wheels would probably have taken care of it for me)

- Avalon was comfortable, but had boat-like handling. Probably shoulda tried the Touring version with stiffer suspension

- ES was one of my favorites, but was at the end of the ES330 life cycle; styling was a little too stale. Unfortunately, I like the new ES350 even less.

- TL would have been a good second choice for me

Gave up on BMW when I faced my first major repair in 1976: Bad transmission on a car that only had 80K mile. Audi's always made pretty cars. But their history is one of unreliability. Mercedes? Consumer Reports lists them at the very bottom of the reliability list

SoCaliTrojan

Almost everyone knows what a Honda is...and those who know Honda, usually know what Acura is. My family was trying to talk me out of buying an Acura because they thought it was way too expensive/high-end.

Everyone has their idea of what high-end should be. Acura is the high-end line of Honda. bmw/benz/audi people consider high-end very expensive and more horse power.

Back when I used to commute 25 miles a day, about 80% of the cars I saw that were broken down at the side of the freeway were bmw...

My dad will never ride in a Japanese-made car...he's all about american and german cars. The funny thing is that all of his cars keep having problems. He also complains about problems coming back after he's spent hundreds of dollars to have it fixed

el chile grande

I stay away from german cars, because maitnence is an issue for my "not so deep pockets." Plus, my friend is from Germany and has been a mechanic for nearly 19yrs. He has always told me they are great cars until the electronics do you in. It all depends if you can afford it, just like any car.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Does the badge really mean that much to you? Does it matter who makes the car if it is reliable, fun to drive, well-built, well-designed, and well engineered? Hell, all those "luxury" German brands have reliability issues that our "lowly" Acura doesn't suffer from. They try to pass it off as "character" but it really is just their advertising to get people to buy their cars.

Dan Martin

Audi, BMW, and Lexus aren't high end brands either. Maybach, Pagani, and Spyker are. It's all about perspective.

dz06tl

When I settled on the TL I ran through comparisons on many models: Lexus IS250/350, Volvo S60, Infinity G35, Nissan Maxima, Lincoln Zephyr, Mercedes C class, Mazda 6, BMW 3 series, Audi A4, etc . . . . . even considered CPO BMW & Mercedes . . . .

Decision makers:
1. Acura is the best option set for the $$$
2. In my opinion the Acura had the best interior styling (Volvo and Mercedes were very close, Lexus IS was maybe a little better, BMWs new '06 interior turned me off)
3. I looked at used '05 TLs and dealers had them priced very close to the '06 new price . . . and Consumer reports gave it favorable resale ratings
4. I like the exterior styling, obvious downsize is if Acura makes significant design changes to the model in future years

I came close to getting a Volvo S60 due to possibly getting employee A-plan but since I was buying I wanted something I could keep forever (basically Acura, Lexus, Nissan & Mazda would be my choice for longevity)

As for the "high end brand" . . . Acura's lineup includes the smaller cars - i.e. Civic = RSX, Euro Accord = TSX . . Infinity and Lexus seem to start with the TL size and move up . . . .maybe the other dealers are offended that Acura offers a few "entry level" luxury models

VegaTSX

I'm with Dan on this one I don't agree that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus are high end brands. Try Bently, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Ferrari's, TVR now those are high end brand cars. Audi's, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus are dime a dozen nowadays way too common to be considered high end.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and I would just like to point out that Audi platform shares with VW in just about the same way as Acura and Honda. BMW and MB are as much a grocery getter in Europe as a Civic. Only Americans seem to have that snobby attitude that allows brands like BMW and MB to charge exorbitant prices for their cars at will.

kwjustin89

Indeed. In the three times I have been to Europe, BMWs and Mercedes are a dime a dozen. They are VERY common cars. Hell, there are Mercedes buses and cabs and such over there. People in the U.S. tend to be very small minded sometimes..

Michael05

Tell him to get a TL...designed in the U.S. and built in Marysville, Ohio.

I played that game before. I was dead set against owning a "foreign" car. (But really...what's a foreign car anymore? The Ford Focus is built in Mexico, but most Hondas and Toyotas are built in the U.S.) I owned two Pontiacs that had problem after problem. I even tried the Saturn, which was supposed to be a "different kind of car" and the "import buster." It was better, but still not that great.

The data doesn't lie...right now (and really for the past two decades) Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus are the companies that make the most reliable cars. If you're a car buyer and reliability is a big factor in your decision, I don't see how a rational consumer can pass up a Honda/Acura or a Toyota/Lexus in favor of a Ford, GM, or a German-made car like BMW.

But everyone's entitled to their own opinion. And it's probably better that way, because if everyone saw it the way we see it, there would be a lot more TSXs on the road. And how much fun would that be?

SoCaliTrojan

He's all about the name. He didn't want me to do computer science, because all I'll be is a "Mister" (ie: the bachelor degree), as opposed to "Doctor" (ie: medical degree). So all I am is a Mister....

I remember when audi/vw was known to have hesitation problems. You'd floor the gas, and it wouldn't go anywhere. That's why for a brief period of time, the commercials they had showed people who were going on test drives, and the salesperson would say, "go ahead" when they wanted to overtake someone...and the test driver would be so excited just because the car accelerated.

ninjamyst

Instead of trying to defend Acura like everyone else, I have to say that even though Acura markets itself as a competitor to Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi, and etc, it just doesn't carry the same prestige as them. Please note that this has NOTHING to do with the quality of the brand but the image/social status of the Acura brand. As to why, I have no idea...but there's no doubt Acura isn't as luxurious as other brands in the minds of many consumers. And since most consumers are ignorant and brainwashed by the media, I guess it doesn't really matter.

BananaFusion

You do realize that you can get a doctorate in CS and also be called "Doctor". Less school too and depending on your specialization might get paid almost as much. Less prestisage though.

Also I must admit that before I started really looking for a car, I had pretty much forgotten about Acura. I'd heard the name, but if you had asked me to name car companies off the top of my head, I probably would have missed Acura, or at least it'd be near the last. As as others ahve said, it doesn't really quite have anything to compare with the ultra high end like Mercedes, BMW, etc have, but that doesn't really matter to me.

drkangel348

Don't forget Aston Martin, Maserati, Bentley, and Rolls.




Most people who buy a C class are only buying it for the 3 pointed star.
I say the TSX's well designed suspension makes up for its FWD shortcomings.

kyotousa

yah MB are grocery getter as civic......because they also make A class...and B Class (?? forgot...but another small car)...hence for Civic driver.

I don't understand why everyone try to put down other brand to make Acura better.

Other also point out that Bentley, Mayback, Ashton Martin class types of car are high end class......Those car cost 200,000 +
So there you have it, Money = Class....
Acura is not high end brand cuz it's cheaper than all the other luxurious brand......

btw if your car cost the same as all the other cars would you buy another instead?
I guess it's about 35,000 - 42,000 with all the options....

Most of us said they chose TSX for "Most bang for the buck" so we buy it just for that...who cares if they are not high class or what...IMO it's not there yet...cuz the RL aint high class enough....

Washington

Actually, I'd probably get an RL if I was buying a car in that range. Dealers are dropping the price enough that $42K would do it.

kyotousa

35-42k i was talking about drive out price....base on 325-330 or IS 250-350

sorry i was thinking every Acura cars price goes up to the same level as so called "Luxury Brand" (well to each their own).....

So RL would be like 63 drive out??

I guess it's not fair to compare this way.....cuz since Acura is cheaper....so the quality is cheaper....

Washington

[QUOTE=kyotousa]So RL would be like 63 drive out??
[QUOTE]

No, drive-out would $42K plus sales tax. As you speculated, it's a "bang-for-the-buck" thing. I know of no other car that I would prefer if I was spending $42K.

Trophyhead

Maybe a little different take, but I am a government contractor. For obvious reasons I purposely bought a car that would register a little less on the "snob appeal" scale. (For those of you in Rio Linda, it's not the smartest thing for a government contractor to show up in a BMW or Lexus.) I looked at the A4 and IS and even the G35 and some others, and of those, the IS seemed to be the best alternative to the TSX, but I just could not bear the scrutiny of showing up with a big L on the grille. An Acura carries more prestige than a Honda, but in my mind, less than Lexus, BMW, Audi, or MB. The dirty little secret is although my TSX ranks a little lower on "snob-appeal" meter, it's every bit as good a car as the competition--and cheaper, to boot.

Let the world think what it wants about our Acuras. We know the truth. It's kind of like being married to a hot librarian...she may look boring and drab during the day, but only you know what she's like when she gets home and takes those glasses off!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

What evidence do you have that the "quality" is cheaper? Every manufacturer has strengths and weaknesses, but there is nothing in terms of quality that sets BMW or MB apart from brands like Acura and Infiniti in terms of quality.

It's all a perception issue that is perpetuated by the American mindset that "brand name" is more important than all else.

kyotousa

^^^uh i guess you are not getting it......i'll wait for someone who has better English to explain better than me....

Washington

No, drive-out would $42K plus sales tax. As you speculated, it's a "bang-for-the-buck" thing. I know of no other car that I would prefer if I was spending $42K.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

at the librarian analogy...good point!

kyotousa

it's either they are making less money or they got cheaper parts or have lack some other high tech stuff......

just point out that it's not really fair for the way that I compare....

btw not just America ...in Asia too.....
I don't know if there's a country that'll say Acura or Infinity is more luxirious than MB and BMW

kyotousa

^^^uh i guess you are not getting it......i'll wait for someone who has better English to explain better than me....

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

No, I understood what you're trying to say. You're trying to say that because Acura sells its cars for a lower price, they are cutting corners in terms of quality. This simply isn't the case. The fact that BMW and MB charge such ridiculous premiums for their cars is because people bestow upon them that image of being a premium brand. It doesn't mean they actually have better quality. The $48k MSRP RL is simply as good a car as the MB E320 4MATIC or the BMW 530ix that both cost nearly $10k more with the same options. The price difference is nearly entirely the result of "image" and not quality.

You have to understand that in the automotive industry, there are a lot of ways to cut costs besides reducing quality.

kyotousa

sorry I wasn't refering to you on that comment.....
that W guy had posted before you...for some reason he deleted and post back...
So I had to delete mine......

this is getting hectic...=_=|||
=============================
but since here we are....
I am just wondering.....are we getting the same thing the new IS 250, 350, BMW 325 and 330 get? (I know for sure my car is way louder than my dad's E320 =-=|||)
however i'd compare TL to E320
btw...E320 is full leather and I believe part real wood

I don't really know......since i don't really understand auto industry
(not being sarcastic...cuz i really don't know)
there's tariff., their marketing strategy, and watever material they choose to use.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to do a direct comparison between cars of slightly different generations. The IS250 was a totally new design released while the TSX was entering its 3rd year on the market. You would expect a brand new vehicle to receive things that a 3 year old car would not. So in that sense, the two cars don't match up exactly.

However, in terms of quality, if you drove as many cars a year as me, you would realize that the "quality" differences between a C-class, 3-series, A4, IS, and TSX are all about equal. Continuing to use the IS as the example, it has areas where it has better "quality" than the TSX, but it also has areas where the TSX is better. The same applies to the other cars in this class.

Like I said before, the strengths and weaknesses are there for all brands and it's simply a matter of where each manufacturer has chosen to pour their resources. But the price that a car is sold for does not directly correlate to better quality.

junktionfet

Another thing is that Acura got its start in this country as a really incomplete interpretation of a high-end make. The original Integra was a simple hatchback with a rough little siamesed cylinder-bore engine (ala the Civic). The Legend offered no more features or luxury than a V6 Eagle Premier. Admittedly, that wasn't a bad first attempt for a Japanese car in the 80s

Over time the brand evolved--I assume that the architects started to figure out what BMW and Mercedes customers were looking for.

Toyota's Lexus came onto the scene after Acura I believe, but the original Lexus offering far exceeded any Acura at the time. Their marketing convinced people that a Lexus was the quietest, smoothest, and most incredible car ever made. And it came with a V8 engine. I was in 7th grade (I think) and I remember the buzz. Of course people soon came to their senses, but by that time it was too late.

The super-exclusive NSX from Acura didn't do as much as they expected. At the time it was an engineering and manufacturing marvel. Not many people could afford the car--and others often complained about how overpriced it was... implying all sorts of things about the value of the car and the image of the "Acura" name.

Anyway, I think today Acura is most certainly a worthy contender against other "high end makes". Their cars now look the part and feel as they should. Acura seems to have embraced more of a performance oriented image--which is fine by me. I guarantee than no Honda will handle like my Acura TSX out of the showroom, while offering the same level of back seat space and exclusive-ish features.

Being a former mechanic, I don't buy the whole "Acuras are built way better than other cars" argument. The fit and finish is no better or worse than other comparatively priced cars in the same class... however I believe they do experience better reliability and probably fewer warranty claims than the other makes.

DLTSX6MT

Most of us Americans are either gullible lemmings who are easily brainwashed, or have to keep up with the Jones's, or both. Some brands (MB, BMW, Lexus) have us wrapped around their marketing fingers. That's not to say that they're not fine automobiles. MB's are solid, BMW's drive great, and Lexus's are buttery smooth. (Actually, I'm surprised that Bimmers do well here at all, since IMO, most of us Ummericans are slothful lardasses who don't know or care one bit about driving and prefer living rooms on wheels that drive themselves, and the flashier the foyer/grille of their homes/autos the better).

I ambled into a Lexus dealership a month ago, hoping that there'd be an IS in the showroom to touch and feel. And although I figured the chances were zero, maybe even test drive one with a stickshift. First of all, even though it was midafternoon on a weekday and I was one of only three people loitering the showroom, all the salesmen pretty much ignored me for over 20 minutes as I went from car to car looking at and touching almost everything inside and out. I guess the suits weren't jumping at the chance to court little ol' dressed down me in my khaki shorts on a 90 degree day (BTW, I look about 10 years younger than I really am, too). Finally, the kid salesman (must have been the low man on the totem pole, or drew the short stick or something) came to me and asked me if I needed some help. I said I was interested in checking out an IS RWD with a stickshift, and I told him that I would not be interested in an AT. The kid immediately said that they don't have any RWD available, maybe I'd be interested in an AWD? I had to inform him that the AWDs don't come with MT. He then tried to convince me that the manumatic is the same as an MT. (Two things to postulate here...Lexus "drivers" aren't buying the RWD because they're too inept to venture out into the world without their AWD crutch, and these are the same folks who think that by power paddling their paddle shifters like a bad Pontiac commercial that they're actually manual shifting their tranny.)

He basically said that they have never had an MT IS in their lot, and probably never will. So I asked the kid, what do people do when they buy an IS with the MT if there isn't one to test drive? The answer...they don't test drive the car, they just get in line and buy it.

So how stupid is that??? Other than being totally brainwashed by the blinding halo of the brand, why would anybody plunk down such a huge amount of money on a car that they've never, ever test driven, huh, huhhhh??? Answer: how well the car drives is secondary to these folks, primary concern is to have the "L" badge on the grille for the neighbors to see.

BusyShifter

For the longest time, Acura Integra was only known as "Integra" by most people, and Acura Legend was known as "Legend"; same could be applied to NSX. During the 90s, Acura did not make the most out of those oppotunities to build up their brand name "Acura". It was not until several yeasr ago that Acura realized its error and renamed all their vehicles beside NSX. However, by taking away their prized name such as "Legend" and "Integra", it was almost like Acura needs to start everything from scratch marketing-wise.

I guess it is fair to say that Acura has been playing catch-up trying to recover the lost grounds in the past few years. Us smart-and-well-informed consumers benefit from it by geting "bang-for-the-buck" vehicles.

ck123

^agreed...acura went more with sport with their integra line, therefore ruined their name. Lexus from the start made only luxury cars which help build up their reputation.

SoCaliTrojan

What do you think about Hyundai & Kia. For decades, korean cars were known to be horrible. Now-a-days, they seem to have cleaned up their image a little (in 2003, their reliability rating tied with Honda...(click here) ). Back in 2001/2002, I rode in my friend's Hyundai, and it felt solid and luxurious. Their cars are dirt cheap, but I don't think it's because of cheap parts.

Now, I won't consider owning a korean car any time soon (grew up in a generation that saw it's problems)...but the generation of tomorrow might just well be future owners of korean cars.

The price of a car isn't indicative of it's build quality. It has alot to do with name brand. My dad wanted me to buy an older, low-end bmw instead of my TSX. Considering that my dad's bmw has tons of problems, I think I'll stick with Honda/Acura for now.