PRODMGR18

I picked up my 06 CG/6sp/non nav TSX this last weekend and I love it. This is my first manual car and I am wondering what the advantages/disadvantages of a 6sp vs 5sp.


note: i did look to see if this topic was previously but found nothing....

afici0nad0

6th gear used as a cruising gear and used for additional fuel efficiency (lower rpm's)? don't quote me on it...

helraiser

once you're proficient with the stick then you can really start to have fun by getting a motorbike!

BusyShifter

I did the opposite way -- I learned to ride motorcycle first, but I decided to quit riding and got a MT. For me, I had easier time learning shift gears on a motorcycle.

Going back to the question, 6-speed gives the driver a more refined control on getting the optimum RPM at a given speed.

PRODMGR18

okay, so IYO what is the optimum RPM shifting range and speed per gear?

1st 0-5 @ 3000rpm
2nd 5-15
3rd 15-30
4th 30- 45
5th 45-55
6th 55+

BulldogHockey

I have previously driven 4 speed and 5 speed manuals. I'm loving the 6 speed on the TSX so far.

The sixth gear is taller for cruising and increased MPG. Also having more gears keeps you in the higher rev power band as you shift up through the gears. Each gear ratio is closer to each other. As opposed to my classic, but lame-o Plymouth Horizon with 4 that would bog down every time you shifted

Plus going through 6 gears on your way to 80 or 90 is just more fun.

formerRSX-S

impresses chicks

PRODMGR18

thanks

STL

Sadly, that is not the case with the TSX. The top gear in the 5AT is even better for cruising than top gear in the 6MT. I still find it dumb Honda/Acura did that...

waTSX

I find sixth gear in the TSX to be a perfect cruising gear. The lower gearing doesn't bother me a bit because the engine and tranny are buttery smooth. To each his own I guess.

It certainly isn't anything to be sad about.

STL

I just don't understand why the top gear of the MT needs to be geared lower than the AT -- especially with the MT having one additional gear. It would make more sense to me to gear it higher and get 2-3 more MPG when cruising.

BusyShifter

Optimum -- not too little, not too much.
The fun of owning MT is that the driver defines the "optimum" RPM. If the driver wants to be fuel efficient, he probably wants his "optimum" RPM be as low as possible, ie, below 2500 RPM; for a driver going for a spirit spin, he might want to shift at 3000+ RPM; or to drive like the car is stolen, the driver might shift gear right before the redline.

If you want to hear something like "a car with 6-speed accelerate faster than with 5-speed", I am afraid to say that in a straight line, drag-style racing, I could not see how a car, with the same engine and total weight, would obtain a faster time in 0-60 on a 6-speed transmission than the same car on a 5-speed transmission. I am no racer, but in theory, I believe the advanage of having more control of the engine RPM becomes more critical when the driver is cornering combining with the famous heel-toe technique.

waTSX

I think you have a point. The only thing I can think of is that Acura views the MT version of the car as the sportier iteration, hence the lower gearing across the board.

But it really hasn't been an issue for me. It sounds like it is for some folks.

STL

Wouldn't the 6MT have less driventrain loss than the 5AT? I swear I've seen magazines list faster 0-60s for MTs (versus ATs) on identical cars.

FYI, you don't have to "heel-toe" to take advantage of driving a MT in the twisties.

vidgamer

Yeah, I thought it was a given that the MT was faster. It was that way on my previous car as well, which was a Honda Prelude with a 4cyl. In that car, people were about a second slower with the auto!

One of the few times I heard it going the other way was with the more recent Cambirds. Apparently with the manual, there was just too much power, and you couldn't apply it to the ground, so the reduced power of the auto smoothed out the shifts making it actually go faster in a straight line. Or something like that.

So yeah, in general, particularly with a modest HP, the MT > AT. Another reason I choose MT when playing video race games.

I swear, I know the TSX is heavier than my Prelude, but it feels just as fast.....

BusyShifter

If you pay attention, you would also notice on the same car, AT usually weights slightly more than MT transmissions. It's because in AT, I believe there is a nifty mechanism calls "converter" ( I forgot) in the transmission system. It is the "thing" that shifts gears for drivers. It is estimated the mechanism contribute to 10 to 15% of power loss from engine. This issue has been discussed before on this board. You can do a search.

The more proper term for the 10-15% power is probably "AT is less efficient in delivering the power from engine".



I never said that you need to "heel-toe" to have fun on twisties driving a MT.

BusyShifter

I re-read your statment. I believe the original question is not comparing to 6-speed MT to 5-speed AT. PRODMGR18 asked a comparison of 5-speed and 6-speed manual transmission.

STL

I know -- I just didn't want someone reading your post and thinking the only way to take advantage of a MT was to "heel-toe".

curls

With the closer gearing of the 6MT than the 5AT, shifts at redline don't drop you down quite as far in the powerband. As dyno plots normally show, you make more power at higher RPM's, and thus by not dropping lower in the RPM range, you aren't "losing" as much power.

In other words, shifting into a lower area of the power band means you aren't putting as much power to the ground, and thus aren't accelerating as fast (or, essentially, you're playing catch-up to get to the point where the more agressively geared car dropped to in the first place).

With the close-ratio 6MT in the TSX, the gears are closer together, and thus you can stay "up in the power band" easier.

Not to mention that 1st gear (and most gears) are geared towards putting more torque to the wheels in the 6MT than the 5AT. That's the primary function of gearing, afterall.

STL

You're right...I mis-read you statement as comparing the 6MT versus the 5AT (when you were really talking in generalities about 5MT vs. 6MT).

BusyShifter

Cool.

In short, I think 6MT gives the driver a sense of more precise control than 5MT. But in terms of acceleration, I don't think it make much of difference, if any. Other than the extra fun factor of having one extra gear to play with, 6-speed also helps to impress other people, for example, girls.

psteng19

You mentioned "converter" so perhaps you mean torque converter, but that's not the part that shifts gears.
The job of the torque converter is to allow the engine to continue to turn with the transmission connected without stalling the engine.

Perhaps you meant planetary gears.

BusyShifter

Yes, you got it right -- it is called "torque converter".

I don't believe you made me search the treads for you intead of doing it yourself. Here are some links I found. I am too tired to read/review/explaning them, perhaps you can do it.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ight=converter

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ight=converter

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ight=converter

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...rque+converter

afici0nad0

yes, i think i read this somewhere too...

someone replied back that it was b/c the 6mt was geared towards more spirited drivers, hence, the shorter top gear on the 6mt...

sounds plausible? maybe. i really have no clue...