Santacruz

I love Honda's 4 cylinder engines! But I've often wondered if they were the best. Is there anyone that makes a better 4 cyclinder engine?

lshenretty

Lycoming?

Teledyne Continental?

fdl

Probably not. However the Audi 1.8 has won awards.

teombe

Yeah, I'd like to see that comparo!

chrisalberts

For naturally aspirated production 4 cylinder motors - nobody beats Honda. Just look at the S2000 for that.

Audi's 1.8T motor is good, but it is turbocharged, and not the smoothest motor.

Also, generally high revving motors need to be more tightly toleranced - most manufacturers won't consider a high rpm motor because they can't trust themselves to build it right.

C.

gilboman

i would have to say Honda makes probably the best N/A 4cylinder motors..but the thing is... everybody has moved on to 6,8,10,12 cylinders for even their mid level cars while HOnda is sticking with 4cylinders from econobox to sportscar....One size does not fit all.

MotownTSX

Geo.

Santacruz

Here's a interesting quote from an article in CanadianDriver that speaks a little bit as to why companies like Honda are focusing so much on 4Cylinders...

"Four cylinder engines have improved at a faster rate than six cylinder engines in terms of horsepower and torque between 1997 and 2002," says Mark Stevens, Volkswagen Competitive and Market Analyst. "Since 1997 the average four cylinder engine has improved in horsepower and torque by over 8% while the average six cylinder has improved by less than 6%."

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/4cylinder.htm

rb1

Well, it depends on where you are talking in the RPM band. When cruising, the 1.8T is virtually inaudible until you exceed 3500 RPM, which is good for 80 mph. The engine is very smooth when accelerating up to this same RPM but of course you can hear it. Above 4000 RPM, it does get loud. On the other hand, the TSX valve train is very audible until you are going fast enough that wind noise masks it (50 mph or so). Not a bad sound, mind you, but obvious.

At high RPM, there is no contest. No one makes a 4-banger that is a smooth as a Honda's at higher RPM.

DEVO

Now, if they can get their V10 working right, I will be one happy man.

gilboman

wow 2%..i'll take a 6 anyday please. and the 6 cylinders are so much smoother and have a more decent powercurve as well. not to mention the mpg differences btwn a 4cylinder and 6 are minimal..i mean if you cant afford a few extra gallons of gas a week you shouldnt even be driving.

princed

I sincerely hope you were kidding when you made that statement. To the greater than 40 million Americans living without health insurance and the more than 25 million Americans living below the poverty line, those extra few dollars a week help vaccinate their children, pay their rent and utilities, and barely allow these people to live lives far below the standard to which you and I are accustomed.

The above quote may very well be the most shockingly insensitive statement I have read in quite some time. We need to remember how fortunate we are to be able to be enthusiasts of $25k+ cars...

finalheaven

He's gilboman... what did you expect :P

gilboman

that's why there is public transit, so go fvck off and thank you for informing me of the unfortunate people in the states, as a token of my appreication..do you know in Iraq there are even more people in poverty and dont even have what the people in poverty here have?

SPUDMTN

All I know is that Audi/VW makes one sweet sounding engine. I love listening to the unique European "whine"...anyone else know what I'm talking about? I think it may be the turbo. All I know is that it sounds sweet when they drive by quickly

Honda/Acura has some nice sounding engines, too. I especially like listening to them sing at high RPMs...they really shine there (they should win a grammy )


SPUDMTN

joedokes

It's the turbo.

TSXinCA

In case you haven't noticed, princed, Gilboman is a complete jerk. Seems like a bitter, unhappy person who likes to take it on on others to make himself feel better. I would suggest he go out and get laid, but I suspect with that attitude he would just strike out anyway...

TSXinCA

Hey, I got an idea, Gilboman. Why don't you go to Iraq and leave us alone??

gilboman

because i dont support invading soverign conutries to steal their oil and gain a foothold in the middle east.

briny319

Exactly.

Don't listen to gilbo he has no idea what he is talking about.

MotownTSX

Man, gilbo sure takes a lot of shit around here....well, he always did, but now even newbies are harping him.

Hi! I'm BobTSX....My post count is 3 and two of them ripped on Gilbo....yeesh!!!

Hahahaha...

TSXinCA

Gilbo gets a lot of s*it because he GIVES a lot of s*it.

TSXinCA

So you'd rather let Iraq run rampant and unchecked until we have another 9/11?? If Saddam stayed in power, there would certainly have been more atrocities committed against his own people (not an opinion, but a well known fact and his atrocities have been well documented), as well as a high potential for more attacks against the US. I think with everything that has happened in the last few years, it was imperative that we intervene in order to protect ourselves and to send a message to the entire middle east that we are not the fat, lazy weaklings they think we are. And if you don't believe they think that, go ask anyone from the middle east what the perception of the US there is...they'll tell ya. It would have been a huge mistake to sit here and do nothing. We absolutely did the right thing invading both Iraq and Afganistan. It is our responsibility as the only democratic superpower to try to keep stability in the region and the world. To quote Spiderman: "With great power comes great responsibility." We did not invade Iraq to "steal their oil." You're ignorant if you think that. It was a preventative measure to resore some balance of power in the region, a step toward protecting ourselves, and to liberate the Iraqi people from an awful dictator. Did the US have its own best interests in mind? Of course, we'd be stupid and short sighted if we didn't. But we also acted in the best interests of the Iraqi people, the entire middle east, and the whole world. It will take time to repair all the damage and rebuild Iraqi society, and its not gonna be all sunshine and rainbows there overnight. But despite the current problems with reconstruction efforts, things are still better for the Iraqis than they were under Saddam.

I hope you weren't one of those moronic protestors who would stand there just trying to "understand" the enemy while they were trying to kill you. That non-violence stuff is crap. No one has ever won a war that way. Brute force is the ONLY way to win a war. Go read "The Art of War" or take a world history class and you'll see that anyone who believes so firmly in "non-violence" is an idealist living in a bubble and is clueless about the reality of our world. Sure I'd love it if everyone got along and could resolve our difference through love and understanding, but THIS IS NOT THE WORLD IN WHICH WE LIVE. Give peace a chance and the enemy will beat you over the head with it...every time!! This is weakness, just thinly veiled as progessive thinking. And for the record, we did not start this war. We were provoced and sucked into it by Osama and Saddam and the various parts of the middle east who supported their actions. To all the non-violence protestors out there, all I can say is: You stand there while I smack you in the face repeatedly. Then we'll see just how long you stay "non-violent". A simple analogy, I know, but this is EXACTLY what has been going on with the middle east. How many more Americans have to die before these idiots understand the reality of the situation??

OK, my tirade is over. Thanks for reading and I hope I didn't offend anyone too much...just speaking my mind.

YBA

coming back to the original subject, the Nissan SR20DE is a great engine... OK, it's an older engine but you can crank some pretty wild HPs out of this engine...

On the other hand, I don't think it comes close to the TSX's...

txtsx

Seems that ol' princed is wound seriously tight. "...the most shockingly insensitive statement... " As Bugs Bunny says, unlax.

Yeah, Honda four bangers are real jewels. They like to rev, which takes some getting used to if you grew up with American v 8"s, but they are precision engines.

Brad

THANK YOU.

Agreed, Honda is particularly well known for its engineering excellence in producing well-running and particularly efficient and clean-burning power plants. Amen!

Other manufacturers can only aspire to produce such normally aspirated power plants as what Honda makes. (Good pun) That's why other manufacturers rely on "bolt-on engineering" or modifications, such as superchargers or turbo-chargers. Sometimes these add-on components may produce more HP, but they add complexity and wear-and-tear to engines that in the long-run may make them require higher maintenance and repairs.

1SICKLEX

Honda makes the best 4-cylinders bar-none.

finalheaven

Very true imo as well. At least the best naturally aspirated ones. I like to think that though 6 cylinders will become standard soon but that might not be the case. As people will want hybrids more later on.

sauceman

and
Well well, smartguy. I bought the TSX exactly for that. A powerful 4 banger, with the power of most 6 cylinders, but with the fuel efficiency better than most 4 bangers.

Now what you're saying, is that since I can't afford the fuel consumption of a 6 cylinder, I shouldn't be driving, notwithstanding the fact that I use my car for work, as a tool to make a living. What's more, since I can't use public transit, because my job brings me to places too far out to use these facilities, then I guess I'm really fucked, eh?

Lets sit down and make some quick calculations if you will:
I have an average fuel efficiency of 33mpg.
I drive a total of 50,000 miles each year on my car.
Therefore, I use 1515 gallons of gas each year.
Let's assume that buying a 6 will rise my gas consumtion by 5mpg (conservative estimate, but let's say it's a Honda 6 cylinder).
This means I will now use 1786 gallons of gas, or an increase of 271 gallons of gas.
Where I live, premium gas costs the equivalent of 2.29$ / gal.
I will therefore increase my yearly spendings by $620.59 in fuel budget only!

Now I haven't taken into account the generally higher maintenace costs of 6 cylinders, and the pollution factor, that is, 6 bangers are about to start being taxed up here in Canada in order to try and force people to resort to the least polluting possible solutions for their transportation means, whereas 4 cylinders, especially our LEV and ULEV Honda engines will benefit from an incentive, probably in the form of a tax credit.

So if you really want to go around telling me and others to fuck off, that I don't deserve to drive because I can't afford the extra gas, paypal me 620$, and I will shut the fuck up. If you can't do that, you will have to find a way to replace my income for me to get off your back, because my car is my revenue.

Asshole.

SPUDMTN

Dude...are you tryin to be funny?

jcg878

Holy shit, did you just quote SPIDERMAN during a political rampage?!?!?!

Sorry, I couldn't let that one go.


(actually wasn't it his uncle who initially said that?)

DEVO

i do, what the fuck are they going to do with the oil?

MotownTSX

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!

That's amazing!!!

gilboman

ASSHOLE..if you cant afford an extra 620.59 a year..dont drive a TSX..if that 620.59 is the going to make a huge difference in your quality of life, you got some serious problems and you shouldnt even be looking at a 25k+ car and where did you get 33mpg from? even the most optimistic figures from acura assuming you have the more fuel efficient 5AT, you get 31mpg with pure highway driving...or do you coast on the highway and push your car once you get off the highway to save gas because you cant afford to use any above your budget?.... u cant afford 2dollars a day??? and most people drive half of what you drive in a year...so it costs them an extra dollar a day for the improved powerband and torque of a 6cylinder? and you have people spending hundreds of dollars on mods to try to improve power and those mods resulting in higher gas consumption as well. no matter how you put it, if you are looking/considering a TSX and cant afford an extra dollar a day, you got serious financial problems. and where did you pull the 6cylinder being taxed from? up your asshole? the TSX is LEV-II while a lot of 6 cylinders are ULEV..so does that mean the TSX will be taxed while those 6's with ULEV wont?? i'm sure 2dollars a day means a lot to people in unfortunante countries or even the poor people in canada/US..but if you are on a TSX board and consider purchasing a TSX or have already purchased one and 2 dollars a day is going to mean whether you get to eat or not, you got problems. if 620 a year means so much to you..go drive a kia... cheap car, cheap gas, cheap insurance.

Jason

For what it's worth, on straight highway runs I average 32-33 MPG. But that's only on the highway. When you mix in some city driving with more highway miles, the MPG drops to about 27-28. And of course doing most of your driving in the city will knock that number down to about 22-23.

Also Gilbo, if I could chime in on a few points. You are Canadian so that means you can't say a word about Iraq. It has nothing to do with you. You are correct on your assessment of $620 yearly and it's importance to a luxury car owner. However, $620 is still $620 and if I could buy a car I love and still save that cash, that is a good thing.

Everyone debating: tone it down a bit and don't let it get out of hand. Flame on.

gilboman

why cant i say anything about iraq? i cant say anything but the US gets not only to say stuff but invade and occupy as well? war rant off

sauceman

620$ is not the critical point for me, you gotta be kidding. It is the fact that it is on gas, and gas alone, in a budget that has many more spendings to take into account. Do you know that with this sort of high mileage, I have to budget some money to set aside in case of big repairs? I got caught by engine failures and other major things of that sort, and I am not too fond of having too do those repairs on credit. Just my way of dealing with it. And BTW, I am building myself my own retirement plan... It's just a matter of where you put your priorities.

And I don't expect you to understand what it implies to travel so much. You know, it is very easy tosay go buy a Kia, but I'd love to see you drive that Kia 50k every year for six years, lol.

But I manage my budget, that is for sure, and where I can save, I will save, and it will go into a bigger downpayment for the next car. I understand I drive at least twice more than 90% of the people out there, but do you bash on someone trying to be economical and efficient with their budget? If that is so, I also wish I had so much money to waste here and there that I could look down to others the way you do. Hell, I wouldn't even be on this thread aguing and giving shit to everyone, because I'd rise above.

And like I said, I bought the TSX, because it has more power than many V6, but consumes less gas than many other I4s. I don't give a rat's ass about the social status a 25k car brings you.

Since I am a calculator, and I try not to waste too much, I do calculate my mpg on every gas tank, and I do get the 33mpg average on my 6MT, mostly because I do drive on the highway. I also drive usually (at least during working days) at 65mph. This does 2 things for me, help me save gas, but also stress, since I don't need to try and force my way around traffic, I just flow with it. It also avoids road rage for me, because being the grumpy bastard that I am, I'm prone to it.

Now, about the engine taxing. I have heard and read of what the government projects to do to conform to Kyoto, and don't worry, it is not the industrial sector who going to cope this time, it is us citizens. At least in Quebec, one of the options that are looked at, is that:

-4 cylinder and less engines will be either left untaxed, or even granted with a tax credit, because they are less pollutant engines.

-6, 8, 10, 12cylinder engines and up will be imposed a proportionnal tax (emissions tax). So, if you want to buy a big polluting SUV (and I think this is the base of the reasonnning), you will have to pay more, with the hope it will discourage some users, and help them "choose" to buy a 4 cylinder car.

This is nothing definite so far as I know, but don't worry, it will come into effect someday or the other, you can be sure of it. And yes, it is discriminatory, and not fair towards ULEV 6 cylinders, but that is the way it is. By the way, I'd like you to name me those ULEV V6s,. because I didn't know there were any.

Edit: I wasn't calling you asshole because of that 620$ thing. It is because of your general attitude here.

sparky57

Yep. It's the same whine you hear with 18 wheel truck diesels.


rw

Jason

Ya gotta pay to play!

dnb

Here's a counterquote from Terminator 2:

"You can't just go around killing people!"

"But I'm a Terminator."