Brad

Have any of you evaluated the Lexus IS300? Any thoughts? Advantages or disadvantages?

A TV commercial the mentioned year-end deals prompted me to at least visit at the IS300 on Lexus.com.

For me, some disadvantages include:

- Higher price, bigger engine (6 cylinder), worse gas mileage, less trunk space, less rear seat leg room, forced to pay for leather options since base cloth upholstery is never available, local dealers are skittish about stating what "additional fees" are. (For marketing purposes, there's a "base" IS300 with an under $30K MSRP, but in reality there's no "base" IS300. I guess Toyota doesn't make any. The Lexus Web site's "build a car" feature doesn't let you NOT specify Options packages, which puts it above the "base" model.)

Advantages include: I couldn't really come up with any advantages other than dealers have the IS300 5MT in stock, and vehicles are marked down from inflated MSRP. (I may actually prefer 5MT over 6MT.)

Certainly there are many more technical disadvantages and advantages, but they didn't really matter, like auto-levelling headlights.

One dealer quoted me $28500 for any 5MT in stock. He didn't say _what_ or how many were in stock.

But at that price, that's still well over 2 grand more than my on-order TSX (6MT non-Navi). I can do a lot of other things with 2 grand in my pocket. I don't think I'll be visiting the Lexus dealer this weekend, but it was a curious thing to consider.

Is there any advantage of the IS300 that makes it worth over 2 grand more than my on-order TSX--besides the cars longing for customers?

James

is300 is a lexus. that's pretty sweet to me.

finalheaven

A new redesigned model will be coming out in about one more year. I hate old models. =)

James

really?? any spy pictures or concepts on it?

kenbiddulph

Well, its a good car, the interior has nice materials and looks sporty. It has an inline 6 engine and is RWD which may or may not be to your liking. Its an excellent car overall but you are "forced" to put on option packages (typical of Toyota/Lexus), so what it really comes down to is, can you afford it?

darth62

My big problem with the Is300 is size. Its not that much smaller than the TSX, but the difference is notable. Its basically about the size of a Corolla, and Lexus doens't make any attempt to maximize the internal space. The trunk is very small (about 10 cubic feet) and there isn't a whole lot of internal storage inside.

Othere issues, the interior styling is not very modern, I didn't like the available colors, and the interior is not up to Lexus' standards (lacking such niceties as a telescoping steering wheel).

The IS300 is a great deal these days, and it has a sweet V6 in it. But, I'd pass.

swami

I'll admit I looked at one. Thunder silver I think, equivalant to a SSM TSX. If someone handed me the keys and said go, I'd have taken it. Still a cool lookin car to me.

speedzer

the lexus is pretty sweet. the whole exterior is one of the best except the tailights. the interior is so so... only think i like is the insturmental gauges. i think they're cooler than ours. the rest of the interior is like a toyota.
and lastly, i have nooo idea how toyota got such horrible gas mileage out of that inline 6. the v6 accord got better gas mileage for god sakes.
other than that, the car is a looker

TinkySD

When the IS came out i had my heart set one one but as the time came for me to get a car i really changed my mind based on the following criteria.

1)exterior -- I likie them both. The lexus rear end is starting to look pretty dated but the front is still nice and aggressive. I really like the looks of the tsx though so this is just a subjective category.

2) interior -- the IS is much samller inside and has a much smaller trunk. I sit fairly close to the wheel while driving but even in my position I coulnd't sit in the back without hitting my knees. Not a problem in the tsx. The chrono gauges are aestethically interesting but hard to read especially while driving. For my money the TSX has a better interior.

3)Performance -- the RWD and I6 are advantages but on most metered test acceleration numbers aren't terribly different (.1-.2) in 0-60 and quartermile. It does of course have a lot more low end for cruising. And the RWD will help at at the limit handling. For a normal driver this would never come into play. Bottom line is they both handle nice and unless youa re auto crossing you won't notice much of a difference. The IS comes with summer tires which is a bit of an advantage compared to the TSX all seasons.

4) Economy -- TSX is definitely the value leader. Even though you can get discounts on is300s now you will still spend probably 2 grand more(msrp is more like 5-6) for something comparably equipped. A lot of users on is300.net are getting sub 16-18 mpg on average for their cars which also might make a difference to you.

Brad

While I _can_ afford it, but it would cost me over 2 grand more than a TSX. Let's say I'm not convinced or impressed enough to part with additional $2K.

To be fair, I've never test driven it, but there are a lot of sweet cars between $20K and $40K.

chrisalberts

Well, exceptional reliability and a peerless dealer network might be considered advantages. As others have said, and inline 6 (an inherently balanced and sweet configuration) and rwd are things that some people would place a value on. Others would be swayed by the Lexus name.

It doesn't seem like you think much of the Lexus - I'm surprised you're even considering it.

If you find something you really like, then don't worry about the "competition". If you don't really like anything you've tried so far then wait until you do before buying.

C.

Brad

Thanks. The "sanity check" really helps!

Same here. Styling-wise, there's no advantage of one over the other. They're different, but both are acceptable. On the negative side, the IS300 is chunkier looking. Chunky, yup.

The TSX wins there! And that's important to be comfy!!!

Yup, same here. Performance diffs don't matter to me. One thing I don't understand is this notion of summer tires vs all season tires. I never change tires by season. Perhaps that's not an issue in temperate Mediterrean climates??

OUCH!!! The Lexus gets sub 16-18! That's pretty poor!!! That's tuna trawler mileage, isn't it? TSX wins there!!!

Good, I'll delete the Lexus dealers' email messages!

chrisalberts

Then you either have never driven a car with summer tires, or you drive like grandma.

Summer tires are a soft compound, usually with large tread blocks that optimize dry road grip. They are usually ok in rain, but are not appropriate for icy or snowy roads. If you live in a temperate to warm climate with little snow and ice then you would probably want summer tires for the vastly better handling and roadholding they have over all-seasons. The difference between good summer tires (Michelin Pilot Sport, Kumho MX) and all seasons is night and day.

All season tires are a horrible compromise and are basically the worst of all worlds. You would be better off with summer tires for 3 seasons and winter tires for the winter (if you get much ice and snow).

C. <-- summer tires all year round in Austin, TX.

Brad

I'm not familiar with Lexuses, but I know that they have an excellent reputation. In some surveys, their reliability is comparable to Honda and Acura within a few points.

I was just curious about the IS300 and hadn't researched it before. I didn't want to bother trying the car until I was convinced it would be a contender (to suit me). I'm now convinced that the IS300 is not.

I may have to wait 'til the end of the year before my TSX arrives. That will be a six month wait for me, believe it or not. I'm not in a hurry, but I hope my salesperson finds something this Fall before the onslaught of holiday bills, insurance bills, property tax bills, etc.

Brad

That made me wonder if it was based on the Corolla platform. Before the IS300 was introduced to the US market, I think it was available in Europe as a TOYOTA "Something". (Sound familiar?) I vaguely recall reading about the car being based on a Corolla platform, but I might be mixing up models.

chrisalberts

Well, it's about getting the vehicle that will suit you. A Lexus IS 300 is a nice car, but if rear room and gas mileage are important to you, you'd have to really want the inline 6 and the rwd to pick the Lexus.

You're right to say that Acura/Honda reliability is right up there with Toyota/Lexus and it's probably a wash there. The Lexus dealer network and overall ownership experience though, is apparently unbeatable.

Personally I don't think any of the Lexi are sporty enough for my tastes, although they're decent cars.

C.

gilboman

well... the IS and TSX are really very different cars..the IS is a single focus pure sportsedans and concerns such as room and mpg are really of secondary concern to the IS. the IS engine is very torquey and althought acceleration numbers are only marginally better than the TSX...the powerband is better for everyday driving....in the end... if you want a pure sportsedan, get an IS

things like LSD, I6,RWD, 17" summer rubbers are the main advantages of the IS...and if you dont really care how the car performs and want room, good gas millage, get the TSX.

gilboman

well... the IS and TSX are really very different cars..the IS is a single focus pure sportsedans and concerns such as room and mpg are really of secondary concern to the IS. the IS engine is very torquey and althought acceleration numbers are only marginally better than the TSX...the powerband is better for everyday driving....in the end... if you want a pure sportsedan, get an IS

things like LSD, I6,RWD, 17" summer rubbers are the main advantages of the IS...and if you dont really care how the car performs and want room, good gas millage, get the TSX.

Crazytree

Many tools here in SoCal seem to be driving either the IS300 or the BMW 3-Series. Not sure what that's all about.

Brad

Many tools? I think I pick up more jargon on this forum.

OK, I give. What's a tool, please?

Oh, do you mean fool, as in lemming?

Crazytree

I test-drove an IS300 and then I realized the only reason to buy this car was because it had the "L" logo on the front. In fact the main reason to buy this car... as stated by one of my collegues is "HEY WOW IT'S A LEXUS!" I actually was ready to take delivery of a GS300, but I figured I'd rather buy a car for cash then finance even a portion of it. This HEY LOOK AT ME I'M IN A BMW/MBZ/LEXUS is the same phenomenon that characterizes many people purchasing MBZ C230's or BMW 3-series automobiles. You could take a Chevy Cavalier... fill it with BMW/MBZ/LEXUS emblems... and there are people who would buy it for $30,000. This my friend... is the definition of a "tool".

Brad

Ah tool! As in marketing tool. Clever! (I was briefly thinking "marketing troll".)

TSeniorX

I've always kind of liked the IS300 too. I think it looks pretty nice on the outside, and the gauge cluster is interesting. Couple of show stoppers though - the "boy racer' tail lights and the 1970s type "package shelf" that dominates the top of the dash. That would be pretty hard to live with. I love the smooth, seamless dash of the TSX.

finalheaven

try autospies... a few weeks ago they had one.

Iceman

Here's one way to understand the difference: Check out the autocross thread. Our Hero does his first run with the VSA on, which manages the throttle and brakes for him. Result: very little wheelspin coming off the starting line. On the second run, Our Hero turns off the VSA and spins his wheels at the starting line. If Our Hero had purchased some appropriate summer (i.e. sticky) tires for the autocross, he would not have so much wheelspin.

Bottom line: from a standing start, the TSX on stock tires can't use all the torque its engine is capable of generating. What sense does that make???

Crazytree

Maybe the JApanese are still mad at us over WWII.

swami

If they were, they probably wouldn't let us disable the VSA.

Crazytree

Personally I think that's why Honda is building these robots... to come over here for payback.

captainjack

"Tool" isn't specific to marketing. It's a generic put-down along the lines of jerk, moron, posuer, schmuck,fool, idiot, etc.

As for the cars, you seem like you'll be happier in the TSX. Enjoy and good luck tracking one down.

dabuda

Yup, it was the Toyota Altezza...I think it was already out for 2 years before it came here.

I testdrove a Thundercloud Metallic IS300 5MT sportdesign after I testdrove the TSX. When I first saw the IS I thought to myself this is the car I want. But after getting inside I started having my doubts, the interior was outdated and cramped. The auto climate control knobs were something I would expect in a camry but not lexus. The trunkspace was also small, it was just a little bigger than my prelude trunkspace. The performance and acceleration were decent but nothing to rave about. After my testdrive I talked to the salesmanager and he wouldn't budge on the MSRP(approx 32k)!!! He said sportdesigns are rare and was rarer because of the color and 5MT. He said this was the first one he's ever seen with this setup. Of course I thought this was BS so I was a little peeved. But after calming down I looked at the facts:

1) Would I pay approx $5k more for a outdated car? NO
2) Would I pay approx $5k more for a smaller car? NO
3) Would I pay approx $5k more for a quicker car? NO
4) Can I live with sucky gas mileage? NO
IS300 18/25mpg
RX330 20/26mpg - New SUV has better gas mileage!!??
TSX 21/29mpg
5) 2003 vs 2004 model? Doesnt matter

So after thinking this thru I told the lexus salesnazi thanks for your time and went to the acura dealership right after and put down my deposit on my TSX. I haven't regretted it since.

My advice is go testdrive the IS300. It would make your decision to get a TSX a lot easier.

1SICKLEX

U mean Honda/Acura is comparable to LExus. Lexus makes the most reliable cars new and after 5 years of ownership. The IS 300 is on a shortned GS 300/400 chassis. It came out in 1997 as the Altezza. It offered a 200hp I-4 with a 6-speed. It won accolades there and in Europe as a true 3-series competitor.Toyota had not decided to bring the IS into the USA unless the 1998 GS series did well to bring in younger buyers. It did so they did hella research.Toyota's research came to the conclusion a 4-cylinder IS would not be taken seriously as a luxury sports sedan in the US market. So they fit the I-6 from the Supra inside. However the I-6 has too much torque for the 6-speed, so they had to bring the 5-speed over, that is why the manual got here a year late.

The IS was intentionally brought here with it's crazy interior and back then ORIGINAL clear tails as they wanted the IS 300 to be as far from the ES 300 as possible, since both cars occupy the same price point.

The IS can be made into a 400-800hp beast nowadays and they have tons of aftermarket support.
I think it says a lot of the TSX to compare to more expensive, RWD cars. Well sorry dude, YOU ARE ALSO A TOOL, the TSX, we are all well aware is literally an Euro Accord with an Acura badge. We are all tools Cept, some of us have not 1 badge on our cars.

darth62

Personally, I like the IS300 just as much as I like the TSX. the real issue with that car remains its size. It is not very practical as the only car for a single person like me who has an active lifestyle. Trunks is too small for camping equipment, and the back seat is too tiny for me to bring any friends along. I has less internal space than a Civic or Corolla.

I'm not sure what the next generation of IS300 will be liked, but I wil be surprised if it is not somewhat bigger.

adam fiooz

is300 looks like a honda civic on crack.it sucks dick!

dom

We do all know that the TSX is a Euro Accord, but we can't be called tools for not buying a car that is'nt offered in NA (Euro Accord)

dom

Nothing like the Accord Coupe, eh Adam

1SICKLEX

It was a joke. Dang, another dud today, I am off...The gene pool could use some chlorine. I know turds with a larger brain capacity than you.

dom

Sorry dude, I kinda figured you were joking but was'nt sure since your a mod at a Lexus forum

Brad

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
The IS 300 is on a shortned GS 300/400 chassis. It came out in 1997 as the Altezza. It offered a 200hp I-4 with a 6-speed. It won accolades there and in Europe as a true 3-series competitor...

Ah, thanks for the background on the IS/Altezza! And in Europe and Japan, that model is a Toyota, correct???

I would have preferred a 4-banger IS, and something not so chunky looking.

Hey, the TSX fits that bill!

darth62

Looks like you and the IS300 have something in common, Adam.

captainjack

Another homoerotic reference from Adam.

Hmmm. Maybe he's trying to tell us something. But if that's true, instead of driving an Accord, wouldn't he be in a Miata or a Mini?