Dan Martin

1.2L
165hp

'nuff said.

phile

I think he meant in the automobile realm.

But even then, Honda has a turbo car in its JD market. There's a car called "That's" and it comes with an optional turbo from the factory.

sauceman

Yes, there are a few turbo cars in Honda's lineup. Not including the 2.2 CDTi in this.

vitocorleone

What does it mean for the TSX?

I means we'll see a lot of new riced-out Civics zipping by us while we kick back and relax in our beautiful, comfortable, capable TSXs. *shrug*

Different car, different market.

MemRheins

yeah sorry I dont See a Horsepower boost because of the new civic..we allready have more then the Accord 4 banger...w/ the same engine...so honda prob figures thats fine...trust me no one would like to have an extra 40 Horses more then me...But I just dont see it in the cards right now...

503TSX

40 more hP is useless IMO unless they boose the Torque. Sure, 40 more HP is probably very possible by pushing redline, but I would rather see a 20ft/lb boost in torque. just my opinion of course.

Godwhacker

Just got back from getting the oil changed on my CR-V, and I was checking out the showroom Accords and it got me thinking of this post. It would seem to me that real issue that the 200 HP Civic will bring is that Honda needs to bump up the HP for the 4 cylinder 165 HP Accords.

The sticker on the 4 cyl Accord at my dealer was a little over 25,000. If I were a buyer, I would either go with a 200HP Civic, which I assume would cost less (but that could just be an assumption until we know what the price is going to be) or spend very little more for a TSX. Either way, the 4 cyl Accord is going to be in trouble, although I would expect Honda is going to up the HP on the Accord 4 cyl as well.

Speaking of HP increases, I think the CR-V is due for a bit of a boost as well.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The 4 cyl Accord is not in trouble because it sells due to its larger size. The uprated Civic is only going to be the Si model, which will be a coupe only and will likely cost well into the $20k+ range.

And the CR-V is rumored to be receiving the V6 as an engine choice in its upcoming revision.

dom

The 4 cylinder Accord is actaully 160HP but thats not important. Remember, that 200HP will only be available in a Civic COUPE not the sedan or at least not initially. Nobody will be cross shopping a Civic Coupe wilh a Accord Sedan.

Godwhacker

Ah....I stand corrected. Good to know the CR-V is getting a 6 cyl (hopefully still get decent MPG?)

phile

OT: So then we can safely assume that upcoming RDX will definitely be a V6, as it will share underpinnings with the revised CR-V?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I never assume anything will happen. Until North American Honda confirms either way, I think both the V6 and a turbo I4 are both possible.

Dan Martin

I somehow still doubt the V6 will be used in the CRV/RDX. My money is on a high output I4.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The problem is that Toyota has already confirmed an optional 6-cylinder engine for the next gen Rav4 so to stay competitive, Honda should be doing the same.

Precision Crafted

And the rumor is that Toyota did that because Honda was putting an optional V6 in the CR-V.

When you think about it, only Toyota and Honda have been sticking with i4's as of late.

pcdawg

SO it seems like the 200hp Civic will be the Civic Coupe concept that comes with brembos and 18" rims.... That means its something similiar to a tuned Civic like a Civic Type R ...so the regular civic coupe and sedans wont have the 200hp....

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The standard civic will likely sport close to 160hp in the higher end models and probably only around 130hp or so in the base model.

dom

It better come to play with 160HP standard IMO. The Maz3 starts at 148 and the Corolla a 130. Why just match the competition.

phile

Because currently Honda can easily sell the current Civic with just 116hp and 127hp for the LX and EX models. It would be nice to see 160hp standard, but Honda generally is conservative when it comes to their bread and butter volume sellers. I mean the new Accord I-4 is only around 10hp stronger than the last gen Accord.

03CoupeV6

160HP Civic, 160HP Accord four-cylinder -- is that likely? I would think the Accord four-cylinder would need a boost first.

dom

The current Civic isn't selling well at all. The Corolla outsells it by 10K a month now and considering the Corolla is only available as a Sedan, thats bad news.

dom

Good point, hadn't thought of that but I still say 160HP is nessesary. Optional for sure.

Dan Martin

The 160hp accord is a great little car. Sure it's not going to set any speed records but it's more than adequate for hauling the family around. I don't see a whole lot of competition between civic and accord because people will buy the accord for the size.

Precision Crafted

To some degree the Corolla looked better then the Civic before Honda saw fit to change the bumper cover, head lights, and grill. Now the Civic look down right sporty.

Also the Corolla is available in a "sport" package that well adds a little flair to it.

Now I do think that it is awfully narrow and tall looking compaired the the more "hunkered" down look of the Civic.

goldmemberer

For the price the Corolla "S" is a great car but it looks like ass.

phile

It's a different story in the US. In some months the Civic actually outsells the Corolla. But the Corolla outsold the Civic in 2004 by over 20K units (Civic 309,196, Corolla 333,161), so it's not outselling the Civic by 10K each month.

Also, the Corolla is only available as a sedan, but Toyota includes sales of the Matrix into the Corolla numbers. Granted that may only be a small number anyways, but those numbers for the Corolla are not just for the sedans.

http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp

dom

I actually was refferiring to the US. In Canada the Civic handliy outsells the Corolla and has been the best selling car in Canada 6 years running. The 10K a month figure was I think from this past January but your right the gap isn't as big as I suggested.

And the Matrix really helps as well, I bet it accounts for at least 7-8K per month.

Precision Crafted

Toyota does the same thing with the Camary and Solara.

dom

Only fair since the Accord has a coupe as well. And the Solara is the "Camry" Solara.

ix8vii

Why wait until 2007? Why can't you turbo your TSX now? You will have the option of a better turbo over factory. Any TSX has turbo beside the one in the magazine right now.

Dan Martin

Right now,
As soon as there is some sort of aftermarket fuel management system that works with our DBW system there will be an endless flood of turbo'd k24's.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

2 words...factory warranty

And plus, I have a lease so it'd be a waste of my money to put a turbo in. I'm just going to enjoy the remainder of my lease and then trade up when the lease comes up.

ix8vii

There's no demand for the fuel management system. Correct me if I'm wrong. TSX does not even have LSD. Tuners are not interested on modifying TSX for now. They're busy and back logged modifying STI and EVO's. But if anyone would start to offer a turbo kit for the TSX I would be subscribing.

ix8vii

If you're looking for a turbo TSX obviously you're thinking of 1) speeding on the freeway. 2) tracking 3) drag racing or 4) all of the above. Now if you answer 1 of the 4 why are you concern about factory warranty. I can understand your lease is getting close. You can also uninstall the turbo and back your tsx to stock. Just my .02

Dan Martin

-No demand? Have you seen the 300 post thread on the hondata kpro?

-No the TSX doesn't have an LSD but you can add one.

-Yes tuners like the STI and EVO but there are also tons of tuners for Honda and Acura.

ix8vii

300 post were not all 100% going to buy. If that 300 post will put a down payment, I bet you it will get done. So I would guess the tuners thinks it does not warrant for the time and money to research. What do you think that needs to get done to have the support from the tuners for a turbo kit TSX? $$$

Dan Martin

Sure money can buy anything. I'm sure I could walk up to Honda's headquarters and say "Here's a million bucks, give me a programable ECU" and I could have it in a week.

The fact is the K series engines are here to stay and DBW is likely to be a key component in any new car based on them. The DBW system adds a great deal of complexity to a system and it's not something any tuner shop is going to crack over night. Hondata is very well respected for producing a quality product and they won't release something until it's been thoroughly tested.

It's probably still a year away but it will be big once it's available.

xizor

Consider the car that made Hondata famous, the RSX does not have a LSD either. And the K24 ECU wont just be for the TSX but for any other Honda car that uses DBW. Maybe the 2006 Civic Si will use DBW w/ its K24

And I'd say there is good demand and now that the car is in its 2nd MY the user base is growing. What else does Hondata have to do lately other than making the same old K20 ECU and Gaskets, I imagine they should be putting R&D into new frontiers for Honda ECU's

STL

Do you really think we'll see a 2.4 liter in the Si? I would be very surprised to see that big of an engine. Most people believe it will be some 2.0 liter K variant.

phile

It's very possible. With the Scion tC sporting a 2.4L (and stealing quite a chunk of sales away from possible Civic sales), IMO it might be a wise move from Honda to up the ante, at least for the Si version.