superJess

I currently own a 2007 TSX. I had a 2005 TSX previously. Sadly, it met a concrete wall.

Anyway, in my 2005 I followed the "normal" maintenance schedule and changed my oil every 10,000 miles. I never had a problem. Once, the service guy at the dealership was trying to convince me I should follow the severe schedule and change my oil more often, then he checked my oil and said it was fine even though it had been 10,000 miles.

Now that I have a 2007, it "tells" me when it needs service. Well it just popped up with "Service Due Soon" the other day, and I'm only at a little over 5,000 miles. I'm not thrilled with this development. I really do not want to be in the dealership forking out tons of money 4 times a year.

I drive highway miles most of the time. My drive to work is 25 miles, all highway. I live in Ohio. There's not much that's extreme about Ohio, although it has been really hot for a few months.

Anyway, I guess my question is... is this about how long others are going before it says you need to change your oil? Do you think the summer weather contributed to it being so soon? Is this thing at all accurate? I ask only because the MPG and miles until you'll be out of gas are far from accurate.

My fiance has a BMW 3 series and he changes his oil once a year. Grr.

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

i had my first change at under 4K based on the maintenance minder.

in fact, it might've been like 3700. i don't see what there is to get upset about. everyone has different driving styles and conditions. i'd want to change the oil to treat my car/engine right.

dereksmalls

Don't bring it in just because the Maintenance Minder pops up. Check out the oil life reading on the MID. You'll see that the Maintenance Minder first pops up when you have 15% left. I try to bring it in when it's almost at 0% (or has been sitting at 5% for a few weeks). I brought my '06 in as soon as the first warning popped up at 15%, and I wished I would have waited. Also, do the math. Check your mileage at 15% and figure out what 100% would be, that would be more representative of the maintenance interval.

itsme27

I am the only one who still changes their oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles? I guess i won't be buying a car any time soon, i want to join the 200,000 mile club with this one. It seems absurd to wait 10,000 miles to change the oil. BTW i change my oil in the first 2,000 miles.

CGTSX07

I follow the MID. When it gets down to 5%, that is when I change it. 10,000miles seems like quite a long time in between oil changes. I believe the MID tells me to change mine every 5k miles or so. Besides, oil changes aren't even that expensive. Would you rather pay ~$20 for an oil change or have your engine crap out on you in the long run because you waited 10k miles to change it?

curls

What's also absurd is not realizing that the technology in oils these days is FAR superior to that of even 10 years ago, so going 10,000+ miles on an oil change isn't really doing any harm to your engine!

Sure, changing it earlier can be just as good, but it's also extremely wasteful and not cost effective, either.

Cars in Europe who routinely see autobahn speeds, go 15-20,000 miles between oil changes, and no harm done to the engines. It's the archaic Big-3 who always required oil changes seemingly at every gas fill-up, because they couldn't design an engine that didn't have a thirst for oil or an appetite for bearings!

mltk53

i change mine every 2500.

at least my mid tells me so

nj2pa2nc

i usually get the oil changed on my 06 6spd when the oil life is at least 5% to 0%. I have put just over 4,000 miles on the car since the last oil change 8/17 and the oil life is 30%.

Acurasrule

"Once, the service guy at the dealership was trying to convince me I should follow the severe schedule and change my oil more often, then he checked my oil and said it was fine even though it had been 10,000 miles."

There is nothing the Service guy could of visually seen that would of been an indicatior of whether or not you should change the oil. Sure you can check and see you're oil level, and you might not of burned any oil, so it still showed on the dipstick that it was within range, but that isn't going to tell you if the oil is still doing what it is supposed to do.

Right after an oil change, if you check the dipstick, you will be able to see the color of the oil is virtually the same as when you poured it from the bottle, a very light golden color.... You can check it a few thousand miles later, and it will be dark, and people will think that since it's changed color, it must mean it's time to change.

Actually the fact that the oil darkens and changes is a good sign.... it shows that the particles are sticking to the oil instead of the inside of the engine wall.

So visually the color will not be an indicator, as it will darken after just a few thousand miles.

You have to have you're oil tested to tell what kind of life it still has. But as a rule of thumb, I personally would not wait 10k between changes..... I beleive 3k is to soon, and feel 5k is just right. Again, the oil could and probably does still protect after 5k miles, but I feel better knowing that I'm not pushing the Oil to the absolute Max of it's life, just in case.

dalieu

I'm with this guy. I get an oil change every 5k miles for my 2005.

Da SJ

^^ +1. I also change my oil every 5k on my 2005. I also only change the filter every 10k per the "severe" schedule.

RGlesing

I drive one of those old dinosaurs... a 2004 TSX. We don't have MIDs and such new-fangled gadgets to poke us with a sharp stick when its time for an oil change. Instead we use an ancient thing-a-ma-bob, called an owners manual. My owners manual says I should change my oil every TEN THOUSAND miles. Not every 2,500 or 5,000 or 3,784 miles! Now I can think of a few pertainent questions:
1) Do newer TSXs have an owners manual?
2) If so, what does it say about frequency of oil changes?
3) How does the monitoring device (whatever it is) know how to judge the condition of the oil? Is there a little laboratory somewhere under the hood "testing" the oil constantly?
4) If newer TSXs need oil changes at 2,500 miles, but my 2004 only needs a change every 10,000 miles, then what has happened to the quality of oil in the last four years? Is this some great conspiracy of the oil companies?

loulinjai

I would be extremely careful with the first oil change. The factory oil is a little different to assist in better engine protection during the break-in procedure, and it should not be changed until it's time. The MID is a step smarter than conventional "change it at this mileage" story. The MID measures a variety of input variables including your driving habits to determine when you need a oil change. If you are very cost sensitive, change your own oil or get a friend to help you. It's easy and the owner's manual tells you step by step what to do. I wouldn't cut corners on oil for a $28k car. It works out to like a quarter a day!

nj2pa2nc

according to the owners manual on my 2006 tsx on page 266 it states based on engine operating conditions and accumulated engine revolutions the on board computer in your vehicle calculates the remaining oil life. i go by the oil life and also check my oil. I do not have a laboratory to test the oil-do you. it does not give definate mileage on when just %. my good friend is an acura service manager that told me to go by the oil life and wait until it gets down to 10%. with all the driving i do it ends up at 5%

dwest1023

Since this is your FIRST OIL change, DO IT AS THE MINDERS SAYS,SINCE THIS IT THE BREAKIN PERIOD. After this if you want to extend the oil interval, it will not be a problem. Keep in mind if you have an engine failure of some type, Acura may use the longer intervals as a reason to deny warranty.
I kept my Toyota Pickup for 23 years(only 75K miles) and changed the oil once a year or longer, and it never used any oil and the engine is still running, as my neighbor, bought it from me. In my own tsx I tend to let the minder go to zero before I change. I also use Royal Purple synthetic which is designed for extend oil changes even with short driving.

ck123

i change mine every 4k at the dealership. 10k is way too much, cleaner oil is always better than old oil

SodaLuvr

The beauty of the Oil Life Monitors (OLM) is that it adjusts the service interval for each individual driver.

The ancient method of going by a "fixed" service interval depending on your operating condition (one or the other) is an inaccurate (and possibly dangerous way) of determining the correct service interval. The service interval could either be too short or too long, as the old style maintenance schedules are very general.

It isn't surprising that the OLM is asking you for a service sooner. It's telling you that your prior maintenance practices were insufficient. The OLM is much more accurate...everyone thinks that OLMs will mean longer intervals for everyone...this isn't true. In fact, it SHORTENs the interval for many drivers as well.

dwest1023

I disagree, that idiot light is just a general guide and it cannot tell you the state of your oil or anything else. Right now its saying my air filter in my RL needs changing. I checked it and the filter if fine. The OLM cannot tell you the condition of your oil nor can it differentiate, between dino oil or syn based oil. What the OLM is designed to do is make assumptions based on what is programmed into it. It is designed for idiots, that is why it is call an idiot light.

Simba91102

This is a little harsh, but I'll agree with the overall assumption. For those (like many here) that actually pay attention to this kind of stuff, the whole service indicator thing is superfluous. But most people (remember, we're just a zit on the face of those that own/drive Acura's), this may remind, encourage, force (use whatever adjective you'd like) people to maintain their cars. The whole "how often you should I change my oil" thing is a question with as many answers as the number of people you ask, but there's more to service than that. Like many things today, newer cars are much more complicated than they used to be. An "idiot light" that will/may result in a better performing and longer lasting car is probably a good thing.

OhNoItsMe

Isn't an oil change less than $35 even at the dealer? What's the big deal?

RGlesing

OK, I think I understand what the "OLM" is, and does. Based on some easily measured factors, such as engine revolutions, probably temperatures, or whatever, the computer tells you how much "life" your oil has remaining. I guess the idea is that the oil should be changed when the "life" gets low. (Does the owners manual specify exactly how low?) Anyway, the OLM is apparently giving you a rough estimate of oil-change timelines. But my big concern is, why does this new system on the later model TSX's (not sure when they first appeared, maybe '05, or '06) now tell MOST drivers (based on the sampling of comments on this forum) that they need an oil change before even 5,000 miles, when my 2004 only recommends an oil change every 10,000 miles? The engines are essentially the same. Presumably, the oil is about the same. Is my engine getting inadequate service, even though I am following the owner's manual recommendations? Why has the situation changed so drastically?

STL

But that doesn't take into account if you're using a synthetic or syn-blend oil. I followed the minder the first time or two and changed it at ~5k miles, but since then I've been ignoring the minder and having the changes done every 7-8k miles. I do use a syn-blend and monitor the oil myself.

On my 95 Civic, I did 6-7k miles oil changes and the car was running great (and not using any oil) when I sold it with almost 140k miles.

STL

I believe it's all about money. I think the minder is a POS and isn't doing much calculating at all -- instead it's basically just erring to worst case scenario.

It wouldn't be the only feature that Acura has exaggerated on this car. They call the wipers "speed sensing" but I was really disappointed when realized it really only has two settings for that mode: stopped and moving.

Back the the minder, it once told me that needed oil changes at 5k miles twice, but what didn't make sense is one of them had almost 2k worth of easy highway miles (from some road trips) that the other didn't have -- yet someone that didn't affect the change interval at all? That's when I threw up the BS flag and stopped using the minder. I have a copy of the maintenance schedule from the '04/'05 owners manual that I use instead.

Nogard13

The problem is environmental. I don't want to have to use more oil than is absolutely needed for my car. If my car's oil still has usable life in it, I want to use it before I go and put a gallon of oil in it. If everyone held out on their oil changes until it was needed, I bet we could put a dent in the amount of imported oil in this country.

I, for one, am not a big promoter of synthetic oils but, while a bit more expensive, they at least help the USA to be less dependent on foreign oil. I have almost 5K miles on my car and the oil looks fine. The MID is at 10% right now but I'm going to allow it to get to 0 and then I'll take it in for service. I have free oil changes for life but I'll see if they'll let me pay a bit extra and put in a synthetic instead.

My previous Scion tC had oil changes every 7500-8000 miles and my Civic before that was around the same as well. I got almost 80K miles out of my Civic in 4 years and the engine was just as good as the day I got it. Just monitor your oil via the dip stick and check out how it looks on your hands/fingers. If it looks like it's breaking down and is getting too thick and grimy, then it's time for a change.

jlukja

Don't forget that the Maintenance Monitor is designed for use by ALL owners. If you're a member here chances are that you know a thing or two about cars, engines, and maintenance. Joe or Joanna Blow does not, and maybe doesn't care.

So, long ago the rule of thumb was to just change the oil at 3Kmi, that covered all eventualities and uses. As the oils and engines became better designed the interval increased. Then to make it even more specific to the user a "regular" and "severe" schedule was developed to make a distinction between hard use or easy use. The MM just takes that to a more customized level. Now, there is actually something that gets measured (total revolutions, temperature, etc.) and the oil change interval is adjusted real-time to reflect those measured quantities.

For every user out there who thinks the interval is too long there is a user who thinks its too short. If it tells you to change the oil after 5000mi. you can bet somone will post that changing it every 3000mi. gives you piece of mind while someone else will say that you can get 10000 miles out of it and its a conspiracy by oil companies.

Take if for what it is. Its a way of measuring oil life. It doesn't mean that at 0% your oil is shot. It means that, based on some parameters that engine designers chose, it recommends that you change the oil. I bet the engine designer knows more about that then 99.999999% of you. Whether you choose to follow it or not is up to you.

SodaLuvr

The OLM was only designed to calculate the optimal interval for engine oil service and transmission service (in certain Honda models) only. Replacement of other items are not monitored and are based on mileage, only. In fact, the owner's manual states very clearly to replace the engine air and cabin air filters every 15k under harsh conditions and to replace the ATF every ??? miles if used for towing ? or was being operated under certain conditions.

It's more than that, at least for the GM model that I'm more familiar with. Not only does it taken into account engine revolutions and temperatures, but also the depletion of additives. Of course, it doesn't physically monitor the oil, but it uses a pre-programmed algorithm which tests have shown is extremely accurate in determining engine oil life.

Why didn't the pre-06 models have it? Simply because Acura had yet to develop the algorithm for the 2.4 engine.

The OLM as I've stated earlier, is a much more accurate way of determining the correct service interval. As a GM engineer once stated, the fixed oil change interval practice of the past can be both wasteful and dangerous. No two drivers are the same and two different schedules cannot possibly account for each individual's type of service.

Yours (and others) is a perfect example of the latter. As the OLM is telling you, your driving style was far more severe than you had originally thought and it is necessary to change your oil more often that before.

Oil type makes little difference, contrary to popular belief. You should not exceed the recommended service interval REGARDLESS of oil type. Both conventional, syn, or syn blend oil will become contaminated with fuel, blow-by, etc. While some synthetic oils may have a beefier additive package, the contamination must still be taken into account when determining the service interval. And $30 ?? engine oil analysis results from Blackstone (or pick your favorite cookie cutter lab) aren't the best way of determining engine oil life. After all, if it was really that simple, automakers wouldn't have to spend millions of dollars in testing to validate the OLM.

RGlesing

So, if Acura has now decided that, for this engine, the practical and safe service life of oil is (say, for example) 5,000 miles, then why aren't they sending out a notice with a recommendation to all '04 owners to adjust the recommendation of the owners manual down from 10,000 miles?
If they are not informing us of this as a potential issue then they are setting us up for possible engine problems - probably not within the warranty period, which would cost THEM, but more likely when the engine has 80K or 100K miles, when it will cost US big bucks!
OR
They are being MUCH too conservative on their change-interval calculations/estimates which means they are unnecessarily impacting the environment and our economy.
OR
Acura is just trying to get customers into the dealers' shops MUCH more often (which I'm SURE the dealers would have no complaints about.)

ck123

when you check your dipstick, the oil can look clean, but when you drain all of it, it is more than likely very black. so dont go by the color on the dipstick

STL

Until we have some real evidence, this kid of speculation. The words in the manual were likely not even written by or signed off by engineers -- but rather someone closer to marketing/sales. For all we know the factors that are measured are only given 5% weight while the algorithm depends 95% on the milage for the decision making. If so, then ithe minder isn't really worth much.

Again, you are assuming engineers are behind the MM and had final say in how it was to work when -- based on my observations -- it's probably marketing/sales types.

nj2pa2nc

according to the owner's manual of our 05 civic it recommended 10,000 miles between oil changes. I personally thought that was too long to wait so i did it at 5,000-6000 miles. I have the oil changed in my 06 acura either at a dealer in Pa or a dealer in NC. the dealer in Pa recommends going by the oil life and the dealer in NC recommends oil changes at 3,750 miles. I go by the oil life or I would have to change the oil every month. by the way I am exactly 6 days older than you-you youngin

STL

Actually I wasn't the one advocating this, but I do think it would be a good idea. And WTF wouldn't using real world results be a good idea?

I'm not convinced Honda/Acura spent millions on their minder! Sadly, I had high hopes for this feature, but in reality it's junk. I don't know if they just didn't want to invest the time and money to make it good, or it they just watered it down and made it much to worst-case, or if the someone (above the engineers) thought it'd be a good way to get customers back to the dealership more often and/or increase parts sales.

STL

That's just more proof that the minder is really junk.

Nogard13

Last I checked, your dipstick goes into your oil pan. While it's true that sludge/grime/dirt settles on the bottom, you should still be able to get a pretty good idea of how your oil is doing, especially if you check it after running the engine for 2-3 minutes (not enough for the oil to really heat up, but enough for it all to circulate through a few times).

davidspalding

I usually change my full-synthetic oil in my 1987 Jeep YJ every 6000-7000 miles or so (and rotate & balance on the same schedule), and at 158,000 it's doing fine. I used to do it more often, until someone told me that synthetics last longer than conventional. I felt that I was breaking even on the price if i stretched it. And ... I used to change my own oil, so at 6000 or so, the synths looked dark golden where conventional oil was getting pretty dang dark at 3500-4000.

I trust the Acura engineers, but -- like this 2008 MP3-playing cd system snafu -- I think there's some FUD being blow up our tailpipes. If the 2004 could go up to 10000 without an oil change, I have a hard time believing that "suddenly" in 2006 the nearly-same engine needs new oil at 5,000. Maybe there's a TSB on this?

So ... what'll I do? Probably let the synthetic run through it for 7000 or so, and change it, and then reset the OLM. Acura's covering this powertrain for another 62000 miles, if they bring up oil change dates on a repair, I could pay to have the oil at time of failure analyzed. I suspect the argument wouldn't stand up in court. "He didn't change his oil on time!" "I changed my oil on a consistent schedule, with a finer grade and type recommended by the manufacturer." (gavel)

SodaLuvr

Because for every owner who had their service interval shortened because of the OLM, there's another who is benefiting from longer intervals because of it. Everyone is affected differently by the implementation of the flexible service schedule.

Look at is this way. Many of us give Honda/Acura fire for recommending ATF changes every 60k+. We feel that ATF needs to be replaced sooner, and that the interval they recommend is not in the best interest of component life. On the other hand, we are now criticizing them for recommending a shorter interval for engine oil?

Am I missing something here??? Automakers WANT to advertise their vehicles as low-maintenance. It's a selling point, period. If they can do it, they will. Automakers often stretch their service intervals to the MAX, and sometimes we feel that they are too long (example, ATF).

If the manufacturer is telling you to service your vehicle more frequently, there is a good reason for it and its very likely that it's truly necessary and it is not an effort to benefit their dealer network.

The algorithm is unrelated to mileage with regards to mileage. It is strictly based on factors that will determine engine oil life.

Not true. Google the GM OLM. Honda's system works similarly. Here's a post by a GM engineer (whom I personally know) regarding their system:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...fpart=all&vc=1

They are, it's just that accurate, reliable, and properly interpreted (yet unbiased) means of oil analysis aren't affordable to most consumers. The $30 tests you get from Blackstone are good for determining if your GM 3.4L V6 is leaking coolant from the intake manifold gasket, but that's about it.

STL

You talk as if you've seen the algorithm or the source code. If you have a copy I'd love to see it myself! I have a EE degree and have done my share of systems engineering, coding, and integration testing so I'm fairly certain I could understand it. Based my experince with the minder in my Acura, I don't believe it is truly doing what is being advertised. Like I said before, it wouldn't be the only feature that Acura has over-exaggerated on the TSX.

Just to be clear, I'm am not making any claims about the GM minder either -- as I have no experience with it. That said, just because GM minder might be doing something doesn't mean Acura is doing it too. I've seen a lot of features on GMs that never made on it on Honda/Acura.

jlukja

Why is it so hard to just follow the manual?

STL

Actually that is what I am doing...just the '04/'05 manual.

SodaLuvr

I just have a basic understanding of how the GM system works, and no, I do not have any info on the algorithm. It's probably proprietary info (the actual algorithm that is) and none of us will ever see it. But most true OLMs do operate on the same principle and I don't think it'd be terribly unreasonable to state that the Honda model operates similarly to the GM one.

STL

I agree -- that's why I found the statements you were making quite a leap (unless you had somehow seen it).

Based on what? Do you had inside info on other minders?

See that is where we ultimately disagree, based on my exprerience with the minder in my TSX, I do not believe Acura's minder is a true OLM.