BlackAc036

Audi A4 2.0T vs. Acura TSX:

Recently Audi has launched an attempt to come out with sportier and faster

versions of their A4, a car that has been long known as a good daily driver, not

for it's speed. Because everyone is talking about them and their ability to

outperform the TSX I thought I would post what I think and my general

impression of the car:


First off, I'm not going to discuss the 3.2L V6 engine due to the fact that, The new

3.2 A4 engine is $8,000 more expensive and about .6 seconds faster in the 0-60

than the 2.0T. Honestly, that is disturbing, anyone who goes out and buys a 3.2

is an idiot. I like the 2.0T a lot, my oldest brother owns a red 05' 2.0T and loves it,

he got the sport package and Navagation. After driving it and checking out the car

my conclusion is, you are getting a car with the slightest edge on acceleration and

a car that is comparable to the TSX for about $10,000 more (With Extra

Packages), that just doesn't do it for me. Here are the 0-60 times and 1/4 mile

times of the Audi 2.0T: [7.2] & [15.5 sec @ 92 mph], at a price tested of $35,995

(Without Navi), as compared to the TSX $27,190 [7.5] & [Around 16 at 91 mph].

For a difference of around $8,000 I truly cannot see why anyone would buy this

car, or consider a trade in. Here are some more Facts about the 2.0T:


Vehicle type: front-engine, 4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan

Price as tested: $35,995

Price and option breakdown: base Audi A4 2.0T Quattro (includes $720 freight), $30,170; Premium package (includes sunroof, HomeLink remote transmitter, leather seats, and power front-passenger seat), $2100; Lighting package (includes bixenon headlights and adaptive front lighting), $1425; Audio package (consists of Bose premium sound system and Sirius satellite radio), $1000; Sport package (consists of 17-inch alloy wheels, summer performance tires, and sport suspension), $750; power rear and manual side sunshades, $400; headlight washers, $150

Major standard accessories: power windows, driver seat, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster

Sound system: Bose AM-FM-satellite radio/cassette/CD changer, 6 speakers

ENGINE
Type: turbocharged and intercooled inline-4,
iron block and aluminum head
Bore x stroke: 3.25 x 3.65 in, 82.5 x 92.8mm
Displacement: 121 cu in, 1984cc
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Fuel-delivery system: direct injection
Turbocharger: BorgWarner K03
Maximum boost pressure: 11.9 psi
Valve gear: belt-driven double overhead cams,
4 valves per cylinder, hydraulic lifters,
variable intake-valve timing
Power (SAE net): 197 bhp @ 5100 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 207 lb-ft @ 1800 rpm
Redline: 6800 rpm

DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Final-drive ratio: 3.89:1, limited slip
4-wheel-drive system: full time with limited-slip
center differential and automatically
locking front and rear differentials
Gear, Ratio, Mph/1000 rpm, Max test speed
I, 3.67, 5.1, 35 mph (6800 rpm)
II, 2.05, 9.2, 62 mph (6800 rpm)
III, 1.42, 13.2, 90 mph (6800 rpm)
IV, 1.03, 18.2, 124 mph (6800 rpm)
V, 0.80, 23.5, 132 mph (5600 rpm)
VI, 0.66, 28.5, 132 mph (4600 rpm)

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 104.3 in
Track, front/rear: 59.9/59.9 in
Length/width/height: 180.6/69.8/56.2 in
Ground clearance: 4.2 in
Drag area, Cd (0.33) x frontal area (23.5 sq ft): 7.8 sq ft
Curb weight: 3660 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 56.8/43.2%
Curb weight per horsepower: 18.6 lb
Fuel capacity: 16.6 gal

CHASSIS/BODY
Type: unit construction
Body material: welded steel and aluminum stampings

INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 50 cu ft
rear seat: 39 cu ft
luggage: 13 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: fore-and-aft,
seatback angle, front height, rear height,
lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts; driver and passenger front, side,
and curtain airbags
rear: manual 3-point belts, curtain airbags

SUSPENSION
Front: ind, 2 diagonal links and 2 lateral links per side, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: ind; 1 lower control arm, 1 lateral link, and 1 toe-control link per side; coil springs; anti-roll bar

STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with electric power assist
Steering ratio: 16.3:1
Turns lock-to-lock: 2.8
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.4 ft

BRAKES
Type: hydraulic with vacuum power assist
and anti-lock control
Front: 12.6 x 1.2-in vented disc
Rear :11.3 x 0.5-in disc

WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size/type: 7.5 x 17 in/cast aluminum
Tires: Dunlop SP Sport Maxx, 235/45ZR-17
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 33/30 psi
Spare: full size on matching aluminum wheel

C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.6
40 mph: 4.1
50 mph: 5.5
60 mph: 7.2
70 mph: 9.7
80 mph: 12.4
90 mph: 15.7
100 mph: 20.2
110 mph: 25.4
120 mph: 32.4
130 mph: 43.5
Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.7
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 12.2
50-70 mph: 10.8
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.5 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 132 mph

BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 180 ft

HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.84 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 22 mpg
EPA highway driving: 31 mpg
C/D-observed: 22 mpg

For info. on the TSX just search the forums, it's pointless to post on this thread...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Basically, the Audi is selling itself on the brand. Their quality has not been up to par for a couple of years now and while their interiors are still some of the best in the business, so are Acuras. However, the new look to the Audi's with the enormous grille just doesn't do it for me.

I recently went to drive an A3, which is closer in price to the TSX. Optioned to the same level as the TSX, the A3 even exceeds the TSX price by a fair amount. The drive wasn't particularly sporting, but it wasn't bad either. I was a little surprised by the use of hard plastics though.

Saintor

Ahhh. youngsters.

No 4 cyl. has the same quality feel that 6 cyl. have. In my 45-50K$CAD car, I don't want a tin-can engine sound, thank you.

GIBSON6594

That wasn't the point

BlackAc036

Really, not even an Sti, I like that feeling a bit better than that of a 3.2 Audi... Ahhhhh. Old people.

TsxBoy

You are making no sense saintor... A turbo 4 cylinder car will not feel like a tin can lol. apparently you never have owned a turbo car.. once the boost kicks in, it feels pretty comparable or maybe better.

lol.

TinkyWinky

The point that Saintor is making is that the "effortless" acceleration offered by the V6 cannot be duplicated with a turbo. I don't have first hand experience in directly comparing the two types of engines but "most" people who can afford that much for a car should and most likely DO know the difference.

As for BlackAc036's comparison, and every other comparison that pops up on this site, there is no way to quantitatively compare the feel of driving these more expensive German counterparts.

If your comparing factor is mainly value (i.e., bang for buck) then there really is no point in making any argument. A cheaper car should not make it a better car.

psteng19

Thank you, someone who knows what they're talking about

roadtacks

Sanitor said:
"No 4 cyl. has the same quality feel that 6 cyl. have. In my 45-50K$CAD car, I don't want a tin-can engine sound, thank you."
Comment:
Say what? Have you driven S2000 or Lotus Elise? Tin can? Any 4 cyl is inferior to any 6? Methinks you are victim of market hype. Bigger = better, right? Even if it is 1960s tech cast iron push rod V6. By "tin can" do you mean aluminum?

psteng19

You described it yourself, turbo lag... which is not tolerable in a true luxury sedan.
Shoppers in this segment will complain if power delivery is not smooth and linear.

Heck, I know people in GTi's prefer the VR6 over the 1.8T for more usable torque and smoother power. Why do you think the R32 uses a V6 and not an I4?

Boy racer cars like the Evo, STi, SRT-4 think turbo lag is cool and all, but not in a $40k car

TsxBoy

do i see lotus elise? mm.. that "tin can" referred by saintor, is fast.. !

psteng19

The Elise weights under 2000 lbs.
Lets see how quick the torqueless Toyota 1.8L is with an additional 1500 lbs.

GIBSON6594

Have you all gone mad?

Seriously, some people need to learn how to read, the post was not saying that 4-cyl were better than 6-cyl. He was saying that the minor performance upgrade you get with the 6 in the Audi was not worth $8,000 over the 2.0T price. HE STATES THE 6 OUTPERFORMS THE 4.

He doesn't think its worth the money.

Ask yourself this, whatever car you have, would you pay $8,000 in mods to have the car be able to reach 60 1/2 a second faster? I know I wouldn't.

campaachen

AMEN!!

stewie20068

I drove some brand new '05 A4 3.2 quattros this weekend at the Audi driving school and they were pretty cool. I love my TSX, but the exhast note on the 3.2 was pretty exhilarating. Of course it felt much quicker than the TSX, but there is this one little problem, right now the 3.2 doesn't come with a manual. Supposedly Audi is developing one, but until then I wouldn't buy the 3.2. The handling was impressive though. What I find interesting is the fact that the two wheel drive TSX with 200hp is slower than the A4 2.0T with AWD. I found that I could push the A4's much harder and still maintain traction than I can ever push my TSX.

sauceman

According to BlackAc's numbers, the A4 2.0 isn't faster than the TSX.

But then again, maybe the magasine tester didn't know how to make the A4 go fast. That wouldn't be a first.

GIBSON6594

2.0T times according to AudiUSA:
0-60 mph in seconds:
7.1 (FrontTrak manual models)
7.3 (multitronic CVT with FrontTrak and 6-speed manual with quattro)
7.5 (6-speed Tiptronic with quattro)

sauceman

I declare the TSX winner on 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed

stewie20068

So even if the acceleration numbers are the same. For the base 2.0T with quattro and the sport package it costs $30,920. I've driven in my friend's 2.0T quattro and I would pay $4,000 more (if I had it) to go quattro. That stuff if just awesome. Plus the base A4 is not a bad setup.

sauceman

Can't argue with that.

jcg878

Thank you. Let's stop waving the Honda flag every time a comparison comes up and say that German cars suck. Some of them do have that je ne sais quoi that Acura has yet to replicate. It's just an expensive essence.

stewie20068

Yeah its all about keeping an open mind with cars...just as long as were all Honda/Acura people. Otherwise we gotta defend our kind against those other car makers. That way maybe Honda/Acura will have the time to exercize thier full capabilities.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I believe that's just marketing hype in the case of the A4. I've driven it and the essence is not there. If you want to argue about the essence for the top end cars, then there is no argument, but at the $30k price range, it is nothing more than hype.

GIBSON6594

I agree with you on giving credit where it is due. I don't believe anyone here thinks that German cars are truely inferior to Honda in every way.

You have to understand that many of us are disgruntaled ex-german owners, myself included, that are now Acura owners because we wanted more reliability. The German auto industry leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

That said, if someone handed me a E46 330ci for the same price as my TSX, bye Acura. The fact is the bang for the buck is unequivical with Acura and the reliability is outstanding.

Peace of mind is usually extremely expensive, however, Acura/Honda gives it to us at a discount.

Powered by Honda

Thats true and Sanitor is saying that no matter how good or fast the i4 is that it wont feel as nice as a V6.

stewie20068

However, I would take a i4 with a manual any day over a v6 with an auto.

jcg878

I disagree about the $30k(ish) range - I'd say it's there in the 325i.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

That's where I completely disagree. I have driven numerous versions of the 3-series and no matter what marketing hype or other people claim to think, I have not felt that it is particularly special. In fact, I found it rather similar to any other car in that price range. There just is no special sensation about driving that car unless you're willing to allow yourself to be won over by hype.

ric

as a disgruntled ex-German car owner. I do think that Audi has sumptuous interiors, perhaps the most consistently designed interiors in the industry, and the exterior styling demonstrates cumultaive refinement. There's going to be controversy about the "grilles" for some years to come, but that hardly rivals the legitimate controversy about the bangled bungled BMW designs.

That said, the price spent for value gained makes the Audi a challenging acquisition, frankly, and when the reliability issue is thrown into the pot...........It makes me make a beeline for the Acura dealership.

BlackAc036

If you want that Exhaust feel, go with the Greddy EVO2. I have it on my TSX and it sounds way better than my brother's 2.0T A4 (Different Sound than the 3.2), but I love my greddy...

afici0nad0

maybe the "special sensation" is experienced once the car is taken to its limits?

i dont know, ive never driven a german car.

g35doc

What a ripoff. That A4 stickers for more than the MSRP on my G coupe.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Believe me, I've hammered practically every car available on the market and there is nothing special about the car being german. Well, except maybe for the spotty reliability, but who wants that?

BlackAc036

I agree, it isn't a good deal at all, but the 3.2 is a complete joke! To pay that much more for almost the same car seems crazy to me...

NightShredder

Bravo Gibson. That is how I interpreted the post. I thought he was just doing a cost analysis of the difference in performance.

Ontilt

Hey guys. I am a huge VW and Audi fan. However, recently I have been in the pursuit of a new vehicle and the TSX is in the near future for me.

When you are talking about if the TSX is faster or as fast, there is no way. At least compared to the new 2.0t. VW is notorious for detuning and pushing down their times in 0-60 and horsepower ratings. The 2.0t with the DSG transmission is absolutely amazing. Plus, just by chipping/ecu upgrade to this motor VW fans have already heard a 250hp+ range for their vehicles.

The reason I am going with the TSX is because it offers a smooth ride and a entry/sport luxury feel to it. I am going to wait and test drive the new Jetta which will be comparable to the TSX and see how I feel about it.

Ontilt

You must realize that the 3.2 will be the top of the line model. The new Passat that is coming out in August will have the 2.0t and also a 3.6 model with 280hp. That will be one sick vehicle!! It's just like a Mercedes or BMW. You always end up paying more for the bigger engines. Is it worth it? You must be the judge of that.

xizor

Do the 05 A4's even come w/ DSG? I drove an auto and it absolutely sucked (even again I hate all auto's), but it wasn't DSG like the A3

Ontilt

I dont think that its standard, but yeah you can get the DSG on the A4.

ndx2

I don't think they do... I think it's still MT, CVT, or tiptronic for A4's.

edit: hmm.. maybe the 3.2 can be paired with DSG.