SilverJ

I've narrowed my choices down to the tsx 6spd navi or the accord 04ex-l manual navi. 27,500-28,000(1000-1500 over invoice) vs 23,635--about a 4000-4500 difference.
I still prefer the tsx looks--but I do think the accord is a good looking car as well. I see many people here think the accord is hideous..I just dont see it. I think with some tasteful tint and better wheels the car looks really good..a spoiler is a must on the car also. Performance wise ?

This helped me understand why the accord 4 cyl is almost as quick as the TSX despite the advertised 40 hp difference.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=80004

tsx dyno done at same place
http://www.clubtsx.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2649&perpage=15&pagenum ber=1

Based on those articles it seems that the accord generated more torque to the wheels than the tsx.(150 to 143) Although the TSX generated more HP--
It seems that the Accord is a little underrated and the tsx a little overrated.

As far as the looks I think the accord looks good in these pics and when I see it on the road in silver, black and carbon grey.

http://mishuna.image.pbase.com/u18/pdqgp/upload/20425960.IMG_3125copy_web.jpg

http://aming.freeservers.com/images/sided.jpgpg[/URL]

I still prefer the TSX looks but I dont see why everyone hates on the accord looks. Its not ugly at all...it has the J LO ass for sure tho! which I personally like!

iTimmy

I had this exact same line of thought just a few weeks ago, I decided to go with the TSX for a few reason's. First of all you can not deny there is more caché from an Acura instead of a Honda, it may not be worth much but it is worth something. Then you have HID headlights, a much better sound system and the real selling point for me was the waranty 3/36k vs 5/50k. Of course you have better styling which you eluded to in your post, better handling- over all a more spirited car to drive. This may not matter to you, but to me I didn't like the available color combo's with the Accord w/ leather compared to the TSX(of course I would have liked a milano red with ebony interior- to bad its not made), with the Accord the only color sedan you can get black leather with is Silver and Black(I don't like owning black cars in the north east) and I didn't want another silver car- again this is a small thing but it was a number of the small things that made the TSX make sense. It is a tough choice and if I could not find an Acura dealership who was willing to deal I would have gotten an Accord and not looked back. However I was able to find a fair deal and am glad I anted up and got the car I really preffered- I am going to have the car for 5 years so I mind as well have one I like!

SilverJ

Good points tireguy. What kind of deal did you get ? I want a six speed with navi but the best deal I have found is like 1200 over invoice. I agree with you on the color choices. Sadly--you cant even get a black/black accord. You need to buy silver to get black or the grey/grey looks good as well. The light interior on either car I cant stand. Acura's unwillingness to negotiate is annoying to me. I know its just a timing thing. 5 months from now they will change their tune when the 05's are coming out.
I guess the thing is I like the TSX/accord but it is still not totally what I want. I want the tl with navi. I cant justify paying 35k for that though...If the TSX had something great(re:6 cyl-240 hp 6speed) over the 4 cyl accord it would be a no brainer. But they are very similar..minus styling which is subjective. Plus the accord has built in satellite...which is very cool.

fdl

There is absolutley no way that the accord is producing more torque than the TSX. Even according to your dyno links , the accord is only putting down 143 pound feet of torque, while the TSX puts down 153. You might want to have another look at your links.

Also, while the two cars are somewhat close 0-60, (although the so called "mid 7's" of the accord is really an anomoly), the TSX will really pull away at higher speeds. No to mention corning and handling wise the TSX will be far superior.


As for accord looks ... some people dont like the front .... some people dont like the back. In my opionion the new accord is absolutely hideous from all angles! The front looks like someone who has had way too many face lifts (i.e. really "streched"), and the back ...i dont even know how to describe it...its just "butt" ugly.

Mokos23

Then you either must be:

Blind and have no taste in nice styling or are attracted to overweight looking cars.

tony4311

style is completely objective. You can't tell someone they have no taste because it's different then yours. Other people would say the same about the tsx.

SilverJ

Actually I think you may want to look closer.
The 143 tq to the wheels you are quoting was the HP not the Torque...

From the vtec.net dyno..
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=3

"As you can see, it put just under 140h
hp down to the wheels, and nearly 150lb-ft of torque. "

and in the 2nd accord test...
"Comments that follow are from Shawn Church: Honda underrates a K-series motor - by a lot. Remember, this engine was supposed to produce 160 hp and 161 lbs-ft of torque - at the crank! Judging by these numbers, it's producing closer to 170 lbs-ft and 175 hp. Which explains why it's so darn quick. "


In the TSX dyno it was putting down 151 and 153 TQ to the wheels.

If you figure 15% drivetrain loss on the second Accord test than that would produce 155 TQ at the wheels for the accord.
That number is better than all the TSX runs... and these are done by the same place.
I guess it just doesnt seem right to me that Acura/Honda has 200 HP in the TSX and about the same amount of Torque(or less) than the accord that is priced 4000 cheaper.

SilverJ

Tru.
I still maintain the tsx is better looking...i just think the accord looks good too...I just dont know if the TSX is $4-5000 better looking....
I dont view the accord as a bloated car either...
I do feel that way about the Nissan Altima though...

xizor

I don't think Temple of Vtec's dynos are very good indicators. Their max torque is at 2500 RPM for both the Accord and TSX, most dynos don't even show before 3000 because its the spin up. Notice what happens right after 2500RPM on the Accord? The torque drops to about 130ft/lb.

Edmunds says max torque occurs at 4500RPM for the Accord which is about 147ft/lb on that dyno, still pretty good. The torque graph is very bumpy though while the TSX graph is almost linear from 3000 to 4500 (max) and drops much slower than the Accord's. I think the iVtec makes a huge difference between the cars. It keeps the torque steady and the engagement point gives it the kick to get HP and Torque all the way up to 6800RPM.

kiteboy

SilverJ, the difference in torque is nitpicking. Both cars will feel the same in everyday driving. For $5k more, the TSX has:

- 17" wheels
- 6 spd
- better handling
- VSA
- HID
- power driver's seat
- heated seats
- homelink
- slightly better interior trim
- relative rarity
- mirror blinkers

Accord has:
- more interior room
- uses regular gas

Assuming you've test driven both cars and examined the spec sheets - if you are happy with the Accord, by all means get it and save yourself $5k.

gfxdave99

I still think the 04 accord 4dr has a big droopy butt!

ostrich

SilverJ, I am one of the few here who actually thinks that the current generation Accord is very attractive... I love it in the silver, black, anthracite and dark blue colors. It was one of the "finalists" on my list when I was shopping for a car. Then the TSX won, for all of the reasons mentioned above already. After 3400 miles, I am still so very glad that I got the TSX instead of the Accord V6 :-)

jlukja

See it yet?

gfxdave99

Yeah its like the 04 accord went to jenny craig and got some plastic surgery

phile

The TSX is also a little overweight.

xizor

The lights do it for me, the TSX headlights and rears are so gorgeous. The Accords are blah, I dislike the teardrop on about everything except the RSX.

sleeper

the accord isn't an ugly car, per se. but it certainly leaves a lot to the imagination when sitting next to a tsx. the thing about the accord is that you get what you pay for. albeit, the same thing can be said about the tsx.
after i test drove a tsx, i tired an accord for size. the accord is a great value, but it really doesn't inspire any passion. i've never heard any compliments doled out for an accord, and i know several jealous people with new accords. the tsx is better looking (especially with the underbody and spoiler) and feels much more sophisiticated. but if you're content with a car that is only mildly attractive and cheaper, the accord should suit your tastes.

Iceman

I love Accords, but the new ones just don't do it for me. The 6 speed tranny and the i-VTEC engine on the TSX are better than the Accord's, plus I am pretty sure the gear ratios on the TSX (manual) are more aggressive. Therefore the best way to experience the difference is put your foot in it!. There is no comparison between the Accord and the TSX once the i-VTEC kicks in.

For another major difference, try putting your foot in it in the snow (or rain). With the VSA turned on, the TSX tracks in a straight line. It's actually kind of a fun way to get out of your driveway in the winter. Um, lift off before you start your turn.

Saintor_RENAMED

It may sound stupid, but now that I know that the TSX can run on cheaper regular gas (as the Accord), this is a reason more to get the TSX.

I was reluctant to get the Accord back in 1999 due to the ultra-conservative design. But I didn't regret it and it grew on me. I like the shape of the new Accord and even its rear 3/4 view, but this front end, I can't help to hate it.

SilverJ

hmm--was driving a tsx the other night. 6 speed...shortly after drove the accord. I havent checked the dynos but the accord sure feels like it has more low end torque. not a lot...but it just feels quicker off the line--low end means more to me than high end. I am still debating. I am pretty damn pissed that tsx doesnt come with satellite either. o for the guy who commented about the ivtec kicking in on the tsx...tsx and accord 4 cylinder have the same ivtec engine. Maybe the accord has a lower vtec kick in point? hmm

SilverJ

Nope--

Accord looks great in silver and grey to me...black too. That tan is gay though

xizor

regular gas isn't going to sustain the high compression. Where'd you get that!?

Its not the same engine. The accord has a K24A4, TSX K24A2. And as far as I can tell, the Accord doens't even have a Vtec kick in point, find it on the dyno if you can. The Accord doesn't have more torque. Sorry but I think your butt dyno needs to be calibrated.

Saintor_RENAMED

On site Acura

http://acura.com/models/model_specs_...asp?module=tsx

SilverJ

Of course it has a vtec kick in point. Its a vtec engine.
Have you even driven the accord 4 cyl manual ?
As far as torque...the numbers are pretty much identical..do a search on the net. And if you read back to the first post on the thread you will see they are identical and may even favor the accord on these particular dynos.
Having said all this--the results are too close to call performance wise.
What the accord has that the tsx doesnt...
Not as good styling..
More room
Better gas mileage.
Satellite radio


The tsx wins in styling, handling to a certain degree..(although day to day driving I doubt most would notice)
Xenons,
17 inch wheels...

They are both great, great cars though IMO---it all depends on whats important to you.

xizor

ick, if "reduced performance" means knocking and misfiring pistons, then I guess it can! Cheapskates who don't want to pay for premium gas make me sick! Its an extra $2.00 per fillup, don't buy the more expensive car if you are going to degrade the performance anyways, treat it right!

Saintor_RENAMED

I wouldn't have minded a lesser engine anyway. Like an Accord 160HP. It is able to clock a 0-60mph in 7.5s, which is more than enough for me.

xizor

No doubt the Accord is a fine car, but I still think all of your inferences are wrong. I have not driven the 4cyclinder Accord. The dyno doesn't support what you're saying. The accord maxes out at 145ft/lb torque at 4500RPM and delivery is all over the place up and down. The TSX maxes at 150ft/lb at 4500RPM and its very constant. The Accord has ~85ft/lb at redline, the TSX 125ft/lb. No where does the Accord win.

As far as the engine. Where on that 4cyc Accord dyno you posted does Vtec kick in? There is no large kick from a cam change. To me it looks like it has iVtec the constantly changing cam adjustments, but not a Vtec kick in point.

SilverJ

All I can say is to me...the accord felt a bit quicker...now it could be my particular accord I drove vs one particular tsx...dunno..but most mags have these two at identical 0-60 times anyways....but anyway performance isnt whats going to sell the tsx. or the accord for that matter...I am just saying for cars that have a 4k price difference the engines are damn close to identical. Drive the accord and be unbiased and I am sure you will come to same conclusion.
I am shopping BOTH cars so I do not have any bias one way or another. My CLS has power that neither of these cars know nothing about.....but it has 2 less doors then I need. Unfortunately the tl/navi is about 8000 more than I want to spend..which is why I am considering these two fine automobiles.
If acura didnt have such a great navi system I might be looking mazda6. but they do....

fdl

As I mentioned previously, the accord and TSX may be close 0-60, but after that the TSX will just keep pulling away. The TSX is not very quick off the line, due to its weight and gearing, but its passing times and top end acceleration is on par with some 6 cylinders. In fact it completely trounces the 6 cylinder Mazda6 in this category. And this is where it accels over the accord. That and of course handling wise there is no comparison.

If you want a nice family car, a daily driver, with lots of room for groceries and kids,...the accord is great. If you want something a little more inspiring, more sporty, (and to most much better looking), the TSX is your best bet.

Different strokes for different folks. You need to decide what fits best for your situation.

kiteboy

hmm... isn't that what I said 20 posts ago? The difference is in the features, also listed in the same post. Up to you if it's worth $4-5k.

Mokos23

now i know why Honda decided to give the Japanese and Europeans the better Accord design.

the real reason is the Euros and Japanese really do appreciate style and class over horsepower than us Americans do. Americans will buy anything just because of name Accord on it and follow what other people buy no matter how ugly the sedan is.

i'm glad sales of the Accord are down this yr from last year because Amer. Honda knows this Honda Accord gen style was too weird and bombed this time around compared to the 98-02 style. the 7th gen is flashy, for all the wrong reasons. i know for a fact that Honda is going to make the next Accord gen more conservative again.

kiteboy

The current USDM Accord body is available in Malaysia, Australia and China. It is also sold in Japan as the up-market Inspire.

Accord styling seems to alternate between conservative and risky between generations.

02-present: Buick
98-01: boxy
94-97: large tailights
90-93: boxy
86-89: pop-up lights

poltergeist

Minor correction, but the '03 model was the first year of the current generation Accord.

Like most here, I think the '03-up Accord is a really nice car (I work on them every day). I would have bought one, but I just can't stomach the styling. For me, it's worth it to pay the extra money for a car I find attractive, whether it's faster/more powerfull or not.

jdibella

I find it very funny how you guys get joy out of hammering the Accord day in and day out. I just browse the forums here and I notice that almost every day there is someone asking to compare the Accord/TSX and the same people come in with their comments on the Accord. Fact of the matter is that styling is PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Personally, I and many others, dont give a shit what you think about the styling of the Accord. Not everyone thinks the TSX is "dead sexy" like you do but that's your personal preference. I understand the Accord/TSX is often compared because they are so close in value but it almost seems like MOST forum members almost insult Accord owners for their purchase.

If you enjoy your car thats fine, but the Accord is a great car. I own an Accord and if I had to make a decision again between the TSX/Accord i'd take the Accord. That is my personal preference.

All i'm saying is that it's one thing to dislike the style of a vehicle, but when you say that "American's don't have taste and they'll buy anything with the Accord name on it" then that's a bit overkill.

Out.

Mokos23

but, you must admit, even by honda styling, the new Accord is a bit outlandish compared to previous gen Accords.

i love the interior of the 7th gen, its just i was so accustomed that the nice Accord designs would continue. i was rather shocked at the new one.

the Camry looks bland compared to the Accord yet again, but its not outlandish looking.

hey poltergeist, just wondered why u say the 03-present Accord looks like a buick?

to me i've loved the style of all Accords from 86-02, including those pop up lights, those were the best.

SilverJ

Outlandish looking? I dunno man..I guess its just personal taste.
I think the Accord looks good with a spoiler in silver or grey. I like the back of it a lot. I do dislike the teardrop headlights though..but I would not consider them outlandish.
Styling still isnt better than the tsx though..which I think is Acura/Hondas best looking sedan to date. Too bad the tl has those big creases down the side--im not feelin those at all.
I would imagine if you guys dont like the accord you probably dont like the CL either. CL looks a little bloated to me and I own one. But it has other attributes...

jdibella

Again, this is all a matter of opinion. I'm glad that Honda decided to try something different with styling. Every Accord that has come out took a while to catch on with me but they always do. I'm not saying it's the best looking car out, but I dont think it looks as bad as you say it does.

kiteboy

That was me - the wraparound red / white tailights, along with the bloated rear look like the mid-90's Buick Regal.

I liked the pop-light Accord too - they looked like the Preludes of the same vintage.

Mokos23

hey silverj and jdibella, how old are you guys? just wondered cause my uncle and folks don't think the Accord sedan is bad, but they're all in their 40's and 50's, so maybe the older folks like the Accord sedan.

On the other hand, the younger generation 20-35 yr olds, like the TSX because it seems sportier looking to our eyes, while we don't like the bloated look of the Accord sedan.

tuan209

why dont you consider the v6 coupe in 6spd? those are going for 25000 OTD or little less, its a few thousand cheaper than the tsx. You could use that money and get a fine tuned suspension and have a very nice handling accord, not to mention a nice v6 which the tsx doesnt have .