This is a theory post for right now, not a project post YET!
Ok heres the scoop, Im picking up another 1st gen shell, its a 3.2 Shell and its in decent shape, Im robbing it for smaller parts and interior bits for my DD 3.2 and I will be left with a bare rolling shell. Now since Ive pretty much fallen in love with the way my current stock 3.2 behaves on the Hwy, I was thinking of building the ultimate touring car out of the second one. The idea of slapping a custom twin turbo set up came up by a friend and Im seriously considering it.
Now I know I CAN do it and I know what it entails, Im sure Ill have to build the tranny up, but has anyone brought the stock drivetrain to its limits? Mainly the block, how much can this thing hold before it needs to be sleeved? Does anyone have a clue.

 

OK so update this a little bit, I came across an article with a Twin Turbo Legend C35 and Ive come to the conclusion that it wont be that difficult to do. Hes pushing somewhere around the mid 300's HP wise, Im going to shoot for much more than that and have decided to persue this project. I figure that c32 blocks are cheap enough to destroy so Im going to rebuild one to stock tolerance and see how much it can hold before it detonates. This is gonna be fun, Im aiming on over 500hp. HAh

 

Would love to see this. Keep us updated!

 

be sure to beef ur your tranny.

 

Im going to have the tranny fully built by a local raceshop and prolly have a spare done at the same time, they are surprisingly cheap to buy. I have sourced a high mileage running stock motor for 200 bux and already have most of the rebuild parts ready to order. I will update when I can. Im going to try and find a few more blocks to use as spares because Im sure Ill go through two or three trying to find how much these things will hold.

 

Also Ive spoken to a contact of mine from back in the day who know does R&D for Koni, may be looking at a custom suspension setup too.

 

Why would you allow it to detonate? Proper tuning and knock detection are the keys to making it live. It can be the difference in an engine that blows up at 300hp and the one that lives a long life at 500hp. Also, are you in Cali? Your profile sounds familiar.

 

DV8's Legend is somewhere around 600HP now.

~Cheers~

 

No Im not in Cali, Its not a matter of tuning to me, its a matter of testing the physical limits of the stock bottom end. I know what I can run safely, but I plan on pushing the envelope to see what the actual limit is. I may never even find that limit but the plan is to just keep tuning and increasing boost until it either the stock internals give out or the turbo maxes out.

 

I did not know that. I will have to search a little more about that, I plan on doing a much different setup though, I plan on running sequential twins.

 

If the engine is pinging you will never find the power limit, it will be destroyed from knock and not from too much power. If you don't have some form of knock detection there's no reason to bother pushing the limits. Just turning the boost up until it blows without tuning is wasting an engine for no reason, you might as well starting hitting it with a big hammer to see how strong it is lol. I used to have trouble keeping my stuff together at only 400hp. Now that I know how to tune, I've been at 602rwhp for 5 years now with no issues and still on the stock bottom end.

 

very interested to see how this goes. I have a 2.5 but auto trans is my worries. vigor 5spd swap and turbo would be ideal to me for rebuilding seems to be easier with manual transmissions. hope you get this lined up and tuned to see what 500hp can do. ultimate luxo sleeper!

 

i haven't been over to A-L lately to see his progress... i can't believe he hit 600...

 

Ok I dont think you guys seem to understand the idea of this project. Its not to see how much power I can get safely and have a nice street machine. The first motor will be a complete R & D session on how much the actual physical material of the bottom end can hold. Im going to tune it, Im going to tune it well. But in the long run there will be a limit as to how much torque the block can hold before it blows to pieces. This is the whole goal of the first build. After this first round a second motor assembly will be waiting to take its place at a level that I find acceptable.
If this block holds just fine at 600, it will be re tuned and boost will be increased up until it just cant handle it anymore.

 

BTW Shell is here and thoroughly dismantled, I have sourced three blocks from a yard and most of the rebuild parts will be here right around the 1st of the year ( Saving money and space for Christmas). First transmission builder has flaked, he doesn't feel he can build a strong enough trans. Im searching for another and have been in contact with a few, I will update with anymore info asap.

 

hows the build going ?? very interested my self

 

sub'd

 

Look in the 3g section, there are 2 minor mods that will make the trans hold over 400whp. Type F fluid and replace the pressure switches with fresh factory switches. So far over 450whp at full weight with over 120,000 miles on the original 5at.

Besides, autos and turbos go much better together. Put two identical turbo cars on the line, one with a 6mt and one with a 5at, the 5at is going to win most of the time. I could've saved a ton of money by putting a manual in my other car but it would have slowed it down too much.

 

As stated above Im waiting for the first of the year to start most of this work, I have found a transmission builder that is quite confident he can build a strong enough trans.
Full list of all parts is assembled and most of it is read to be ordered. Still trying to decide on which turbos to ultimately use.

 

If you have the 5at it doesn't have to br built for 500hp.

The block is not the weak link, the pistons and rods are.

 

Im shooting for more than 500hp, and the 96 has a 4AT.
Its not the block im worried about its the cylinder walls. As stated above the first block will be built to exact OEM spec to see what it will hold. The second will be sleeved with better internals if necessary. Like i keep saying, this isnt an experiment on how much power I can make, its about how much can the oem parts hold. I have a theory, all will be made clear soon guys, just hold on tight

 

thanks for the tip. I didn't look into it yet but I know my trans isn't up to snuff. Have any know how rebuilding the 1st gen 4AT? I know some auto's can handle the turbo but at a price. This is a budget daily.

 

There are two failure modes with an auto. Slippage and breakage.

You need it to shift firm and have enough holding power to prevent slippage (auto clutches should not slip more more than a few miliseconds) but not shift so hard that you shock the hard parts and cause breakage.

Number one is to run a non friction modified Type F fluid. It will firm up all shifts and increase dynamic holding power by 50% and static (once they're engaged) holding power by 100% over Z1. It will shift firm but not overly harsh. That's a price you have to pay to have a trans that will live under high power. There's no way around it, the harder it shifts, the less likely you are to burn it up.

Keep it on street tire and the chances of it living are greatly increased.

The Honda 5at and 4at have been remarkably resistant to hard parts breakage. Getting additional holding power is much easier than having custom hard parts made so that's a big plus for us.

I'm out of the industry now but if/when this happens and if the fluid alone isn't enough, there are some very simple things you can do to increase line pressure. It's very similar to adding a larger/stiffer clutch to a manual. You're just increasing clutch apply pressure and increasing the friction via the fluid.

One day you will want to send off your torque converter to be modified for both strength and a higher stall to help spool the turbo if you go that route. It's under $200 for this service.

 

I hate to have to tell you all this but I recently got a new job and Im working 70+ hours a week. Im managing a dealership in Orlando,FL and I have a company car so both the TL's (DD and Project) were sold off this week. This project will not be coming to fruition. Sorry guys I just wont have the time to commit to the car anymore.