wspy

^^ And that 'box' the outlet line runs through is supposed the reduce the "pssssh" sound too.

wspy

I did a little research into this for the exact reason you stated about the addition/combo of mods and almost pulled the trigger on the purchase of the AEM FIC and patch harness. You would just plug the harness inbetween the ECM and the factory loom which affords you the ability to install the AEM 'piggyback' without hacking the factory loom. The AEM would then give you controll over fuelling and ignition timing via a laptop and installed software!
I've been doing my own tuning for many years.... my other car is a 600whp Evo VII

bluecarbonfiber

I think if you could make it work you could easily get 325+ hp to the wheel with all the extras added and lots of tuning done.. the question that will hang in the air after that is how much the tranny will take.. maybe add a tranny cooler or upgrade the torque converter.. but still 325 and probably 330 tq to the wheel is a good jump and would deff be fun

Mr Marco

I'll shoot an e-mail to Hondata and see if I can get more info from them. (Althought the last reply I got from them was 7 words long)

Kaze66218

LOL... That pipe which all 4 of us agree on #14 runs from the ABP now the sound resonates from the #10 BOV/ ABP and the Pssh sound is actually the dump and travels out the #10 assembly. Then becomes recycled through the #14 pipe "the muffler" if you will. Your BOV/ ABP is side mounted to the Intercooler, if you don't already know.

That #14 pipe I believe has a baffle of some sort to dampen the back flow. I I will correct only one thing, that in our case it may actually makes it back to the Intake/ forward of the compressor, sorry.

bluecarbonfiber

would have to look at that in person but i would think its the same type of box on the TSX which is suppose to catch the oil before it goes into the intake.. do you have an actual picture of the box?

Kaze66218

It is a 1" pvc pipe that starts at the ABV and travels like WSPY stated parallel with the Intake pipe to terminate at an intermediate intake pipe that travels down and behind the engine to the turbo. That pipe is void of oil as it's purpose is to directly recycle air once it is ingested, and was oil/lubricated at the couplers by the factory.

LONG side note:
I used to have a snorkel peice that I figure you are referring to on my car, but I opted to put a breather filter on it, as it was a part of a crank case vent. Most CAI kits on Ebay have a silicone tube that hooks up at the valve cover and oil seeps out and into the intake under harsh acceleration. You'd see a blue'ish gray exhaust fom oil seeping into any part of the engine. "Yo, my head gasket's blown.. I gots oil in my engine." lol, pwnage.

Okay, sorry for rambling on. After I started installing my Typhoon kit I saw this and had an impulsive idea.

Take it out!

My reasoning was, The air that's getting re-circulated was warming the intake air slightly. I fooled around with this pipe and after a few days put it back on. I was left with a CEL (Check Engine Light, remedied by pressing the gauge's button and holding down about 15 sec, then turn the knob left and that should reset CEL.) came on and the engine ran. I would have left it like that but the engine seemed to try to stall upon releasing the gas pedal. There is an apperature that causing this and I believe that to be part #24 and must be an "equiliaztion" valve. (sort of an 2 opposing forces) vacuum vs. intake pressure. I haven't wanted to pull anymore parts off until I figure out how to fix the stall problem. I hope someone else figures it out. Right now it's on my to don't list.

Oh yeah. Back to the thread, Hondata rocks, whoo hoo! It makes me wanna listen to mp3's backwards, bite chickenheads off, and pee on people. All covered in cow blood!

Kaze66218

Hey, save your money on piggybacks, My last post made me think, correct me if I'm wrong most boosted apps have 1:1 vacuum at the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). If the part #24 measuring the vacuum and adjusting the FPR to follow, then remove the vacuum lines from item #24 then route to the FPR. I'll update when I get around to it, need to get some silicone hose. This may be the link to our fuel leaning out. Theoretically.

bluecarbonfiber

is there a return line on the RDX? or is the FPR located in the gas tank?

i know comptech makes a FPR crusher to raise it up alittle for there S/C kits.. that would help with the A/F ratio on the RDX but you would have to do it in small increments and be close to a dyno to test it..

Kaze66218

It may not be necessary. the valve inside the FPR should be good to go. Adjustability is always good to have IF this works the way I think it will.

The FPR is against the firewall on the drivers-side and is 1/4 the way down.

The Fuel lines that goes to the rail, runs down the middle and under the TMIC.

The boost lines from item #24 run a rollercoaster route to the FPR, and I'll need to investigate it more be before I rip hoses out.

My Theoryit's vairiable)

Stock ABP valve with boost hoses
-----------------------------------------------------
(-)14psi [@ stock valve, actual actuation (item #24)] + (-)16psi [@ intake(hondata's higher boost pressure)] = (-)2psi(change over stock)

Mechanically 7:8 ratio.

Re-routed hoses ABP to FPR
-----------------------------------------------------
(-)16psi[@ABP boost hose(Hondatas higher boost)]+(-)16psi[@intake(Hondata's intake pressure)]= equilibrium 0

Mechanically 1:1 ratio.

My hypothesis is, that once the boost/vacuum lines run directly fom ABP to the FPR bypassing the valve on the intemediate intake pipe #24, then 1 to 1 should be acheived. The leaning may be attributed to the fact that the travel of the valve is limited due to engineering for pressures of < or = 14 psi (stock). and lack of movement may hamper the ratio of vacuum/ boost the FPR receives

It need to be tested, and I don't recommend for anyone to rip the parts out of the RDX yet but, if you do you need to be aware that this can foul spark plugs, throw a CEL, or ruin the engine. I am sure that the ECU programing will compensate and adjust ignition/ Fuel but I'm more worried what will happen if it doesn't.

IF this does work it may mean that any body looking to go replace FMIC or maxed mods may be safe A/F ratio once the DP is developed. Or just something that may need to happen once the Hondaddy flash process is done???? Who know's it in the Air now. I'll get time I'll do it.

Mr Marco

My head hurts a little from reading all those posts. I need a little more speed to make me happy, and for $295 I'll bite on the Hondata reflash.

bluecarbonfiber

^ haha Marco ya the hondata reflash is up your alley.. maybe with the intake and im sure youll be happy..

Kaze66218

Sorry Marco, and everyone else, albeit this little tweak may go hand in hand with Hondata.

Oh yeah, sorry everyone I looked alittle closer at the FPR vac lines and the boost lines don't run to each other and are seperate and share vacuum only at the IM. There is no need to mess with the FPR vac lines.

Well I thought this thru and any vacuum complications will adversely affect the performance (stalling was the one I came across.) Anyway I just accomplished all I could today. I tested my idea, with ok/so-so results.

Allright, this is the area I was referring to on the RDX and is 1/3 way down under intake (near center of picture)

This is the valve in question, I pulled both lines and inserted onto a double sided barb from (Lowes, lol) and capped the valve ends.

and


I capped the ABP return air with a 1" rubber cap but found out that the RDX needs the air and starves without it. That is the so-so part.

My reason, I wanted to find a way to "get around" factory parts.

The reflashed ECU compensated to 2 barb bypass, alright. The valve that was bypassed with 2 sided pvc barb is un-metered and will not cause a CEL. I has happy I didn't have to clear it!!! So I could say now it'd be safe to test the before and after A/F now as the RDX is driveable. I still want to see if the change is a positive even if slight a one.

If any change noted for the better I'll open a thread about it.
Thx!

Kaze66218

I should have waited to post the above. Please don't try this yet. I have a Dyno on mon. I returned mine to stock config and will re-install at the dyno.

wspy

Ok, I'm not sure what we're trying to accomplish here.

The operation of the "blow of valve" (BOV) or "air bypass valve" (ABP) has been explained adequately!

The purpose of the little 'box' that is situated in hose #14 is primarily to reduce the noise produced (psssh) by the BOV. The bypassed air is routed through the #14, quietened(box), and then reintroduced to the intake pipe that feeds the turbo.

Disconnecting the #14 hose (air recirculation) and preventing it form returning to the intake tract will afford no performance increase and will cause stalling and overly rich a/f ratios (reason too long to explain)!

Now, the item that you disconnected and capped is the "evap canister purge nozzle" which is used for emission purposes! It is a valve operated by vacuum and soleniods linking fuel tank vapours to the intake tract. So.. don't mess with it!

As far as I can tell we all would love a little 'free' power increase, but nothing attempted here will afford us that!!

Kaze66218

Really glad I didn't hook those two hoses up, lol. (I know better, anyway.) I do a little bit of cross-referencing before I try something.

Anyway the Purge Jet "is" the part that is what I was talking about.

It consists of two lines boost and vacuum. I don't think that the ID of the other two match (fuel vapor return feed and ABV boost purge, I believe have different Diameters and won't pair up like this) It's all good though.


This idea sprouted from a FPR idea then to a boost to vacuum realationship on other turboed apps while we were dicussing what #14 was.

The more vacuum the more boost.

Too rich now plugs will foul,
Lean is mean but'll kill your machine:
It's in the air for possibly a little leaned or possibly little rich, I am still guessing, I think lean. I tracked the RDX but then returned to stock. I wanna see how it affected the A:F and engine/turbo safety and what the higher boost maxed at and where.

'Free' mods I have seen it before in an another forum, doesn't fly well on here @ AZ, but don't discredit it yet. In reality the modification was about 50 cents to a dollar and technically not free.

Mr Marco

Nice job! I appreciate your diligence and attention to detail!
Sincerely,
Marco

wspy

Kaze, I've been in the tuner world for the better part of 20yrs all of which has been with turbo cars, so I know a thing or two Its like been there done that!

I have not messed with this particular area in the RDX because I know whats going on and what will be the result.

A couple things; more vacuum does not mean more boost!
The RDX like most other turbo vehicles come a bit overly rich from the factory and may be leaned out a bit in certain areas of the fuel map without hurting anything (this is what Hondata does with their flash). Only safe way to do this is by tuning the fuel maps directly or removing the exhaust restrictions (cats) the latter being proven by PangCo a while back.

Its not too safe to go disconnecting vacuum lines and the like!

So Chill

This thread has been extremely helpful. I just picked up a 2008 RDX and I'm looking into the ECU upgrade. The most important thing I worry about is the warranty.
It seems nobody has had a problem with their upgrade and the warranty, which is good.

I have a question though...
Say I get the buy the big package that includes their ECU (not just reflashing mine), if something goes wrong and I need to take it into the dealership, could I just swap in my old ECU and they can't prove that there was an upgraded ECU?

Kaze66218

If you purchase the ECU I think that they'll need the key to set transponder codes (the key has a signal that the ECU picks up and verifies for anti-theft before turning on).

You are correct, but lets just say that in the most highly unlikely event the RDX actually has something happen to it on the road and you are miles from your house, are you going to have the ECU in the "trunk" as well as a 10mm socket? If your wife drives it, it breaks down (A few of us have wifes that RDX belongs to)and is about as mechanically inclined as a porceline doll, and that needs to be a concideration as well. My ECU harness was also a pain to get off the ECU but after relaxing and figuring out the tabs it snapped off in about 1 min altogether(Try to imagine if the RDX is broke down will you be relaxed?). I guess that would be a good idea, and mainly for this reason: good luck with changing it if the dealer towed it in before you can get back to it. But most (I can only vouch for a few of us on here) of us here have had the reflash done and it's Plug n Play (PnP), worry free.

I have an opinion on this all together, but, if you feel it adds peace of mind then its all good.

So Chill

Thanks for the reply Kaze.

I'm sure there won't be any initial problems with the Hondata ECU reflash. I actually haven't seen one negative about it yet. I'm more considered about the long run because I bought an extended warranty to 100,000mi. I would be devastated if something did happen, at say 95,000mi, and I wouldn't be covered because of the reflash. One of those bang-your-head-against-the-wall moments you don't want, right? Plus I drive the $h!t out of my car too. I would definitely keep the stock ECU in the car along with a 10mm socket. If my wife does end up driving it and it breaks down... I'd have her tow it home first before the dealership.

Anyone here have over 100,000mi with the Hondata reflash? If so, any mechanical issues yet that could be related to the reflash?

Kaze66218

Oh yeah if you haven't thought of this.

I'd do it if I was you. I would paint the lid of the hondata ecu or some way of identifying the ecus because one you take one out they look exactly the same. Mark it or do something. I thought about this just now. I got a hondata sticker with my reflash, but left it off because I want the sleepy RDX look.

God-willing it lasts longer than my 13 year old prelude that was murdered by a tuner here 2 years ago.

Mr Marco

My wife can't figure out the Blue-Ray player, let alone the ECU.

Sleeper? You should see the WTF car of the day thread under "Car Talk" in Off Topic. There is a classic example of what not to put on the side/hood of your car, and how to get every asshole to challenge you at a stop light. (345 Hp RL)

Kaze66218

Lol

JCRDX11

Anyone here with a 2010 or 11 running a hondate reflash?
I check with them and they advise the ECU was different from the 07-09 ones..sigh!

LC2ner

What if you just replaced parts 14, 13, and others associated with a 1" braided hose line that could stand 40-50 PSI and heat? This would reduce travel, and maybe a wee bit of lag?

DeEjAy_LiM

Change that tube?

LC2ner

What was the result of the swap? Anything at all?

DeEjAy_LiM

Relative to how I feel, meaner sound and quicker response when I floor it. Sounds like a BOV when releasing boost.

wspy

^ Is the key statement here!

DeEjAy_LiM

Hah, yea because I know I don't have anything scientific to back it up.

But definitely on sound, it sounds like an HKS SSQV at high boost. Low boost sounds like a monster breathing.

08rdx

If i already have the hondata reflash and i want to get a custom catback exhaust, will that have any effect with the hondata or car? Also DEEJAY_LIM were did u get the tube at?

DeEjAy_LiM

I was doing research and development with Forge Motorsports. They provided me with the silicone tubing. Their aftermarket BPV failed to work properly with the RDX.

LC2ner

Do you happen to know what size hose that is.

Does anyone have recommendations pertaining to swapping that out? I would assume a braided hose that can stand 60 PSI and high temps would work, but I'd rather have some more educated discussion on it first.

wspy

Swapping out that hose will afford you absolutely no performance gain and does not have to be able to hold much psi (its not a pressure line as such)!

Swapping may however increase the sound that the BOV makes when releasing pressure ( the pshsssss sound) because in doing so you eliminate the sound reducing chamber......sound performance I guess

wspy

The reflash was actually formulated using an aftermarket exhaust.
So you will get more performance gain and no negatives!

jp1

Ok - so I'm probably getting an RDX in near future - and the hondata reflash looks enticing. But the wife's gonna have questions. Could I get a little help?

I've never done egine mods outside of of aftermarket spark plugs and air filters. Have upgraded tires but that's also different.

Other than the money, having to go w/o car for few days (both no big deal), and the danger of using lower octane gas after reflash (I will be only one filling tank so also no prob) what are the "unspoken" downsides to doing this? Ya know - the things that hondata will never mention on their website.

I'm not concerned about warranty - I plan to get a RDX with high milage anyway. And I am not racing the car or planning to be hard on it...I just want the extra torque and turbo response.)

Is it noticeable in ANY negative way compared to stock ECU setup? Would someone be able to tell the difference from a stock setup (other than the enhanced performance?) for instance idle characteristics? Different vibrations? Etc...

What about resale value?

Thanks very much

bluecarbonfiber

no negative about it.. cept for the heavy foot you might get after having too much fun..

jp1

Wow. It honestly seems too good to be true. And often things that seem too good to be true usually are. But there is no catch here? Anyone in this thread disagree?

mrgold35

I can't tell the difference between flashed and non-flashed other than quicker throttle response, slight improvement in mpgs and pulling harder in upper rpms. Only folks on this forum will appreciate the hondata reflash; no added value during resell to anyone else.

I think one member got an error code and check engine light and the dealership updated his ECU and wiped out his reflash. I don’t remember if the hondata reflash caused the error code or he had some other types of aftermarket mods along with Hondata or just normal engine problem occurred causing the code. This is just one person out of hundreds I’ve heard of having problems with the reflash.

Considering most mods (intake, tires, brakes/rotor, exhaust, etc…) cost more than $300 and produces only minor improvement in performance. The only other mod with a lot of bang for the buck is a test pipe to delete one of the Cat; but, this still seems to be a work in progress.