*depends on the butt, there are a few of us who could tell you which corner of the car the batttery is located just from 2 laps around the track by the seat of our pants.

 

Ok Guys.....so in a nutshell---->

The Hondata Re-Flash gives the best "bang for the buck" at $295.
It may be used safely in conjunction with the K&N intake and the CP-E, where the CP-E results in a somewhat leaner A/F than the K&N.
Add the upgraded intercooler and you're still ok....A/F wise.
Add a Cat Back exhaust still ok.
Note that at this point you should not add any more mods because the A/F would be at the safe limit! The CP-E combo is the leanest!

Also at this point the $ figure is relatively high

So...now if you had just added a downpipe (single mod), you would probably make as much power as all the previous mod combos stated earlier.
If you then add a cat back to the downpipe and an intake system (K&N or CP-E) you're still safe (A/F)...intercooler likewise.
However, DO NOT ADD THE HONDATA RE-FLASH to the downpipe combo of mods!!
At this point the A/F will get into the borderline unsafe area and the chance of engine damage increases quite a bit!!

So basically this is what JCRDX11 was saying

Hope this helps

 

yeah, the DP/Mid pipe is eliminating the two major restrictions (both cats) which without a good tuning solution may be too lean as exh. velocity will have increased substantially. It is inversely proportional to the pressure. The engine is basically a gas (air) pump...more out allows for more in. I could see the point being made, as the stock maps are pretty rich, which with other non-ecu mods may keep A/F ratios ok.

 

The v-band DP/MPs look great. Glad to see progress being made.

I'm running Hondata + K&N Typhoon + ETS TMIC + 3" SS turboback with no problems. Great bang for your buck except for the TMIC, IMO.

 

you have data don't you IJ? what are your A/F ratio's looking like?

 

I would be very interested in this downpipe if someone was able to have data on a dyno with the reflash and stock ecu.

Of course having a downpipe would require more fuel and would cause a car to run lean without tuning the car to it's modifications. But if i'm not mistaken, doesn't our ecu's run off of closed loop? If the hondata ecu is running open loop at WOT, then it would make sense to me why the downpipe would be unsafe to have with the reflash.

I want to assume that our cars would simply adjust to how lean it is running, how much air volume is being pulled by the MAF, and knock to adjust ignition timing and fuel compensation for the motor to run safely.

So what you're saying, JCRDX11, is that we would lose power if we installed the DP/TP with hondata due to ECU adjustment verses gaining power running a stock ecu?

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

Someone should contact Church automotive http://home.earthlink.net/~spchurch/id2.html and ask them about there tuning option for the reflash they made per this article http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/tu...h/viewall.html they have there own reflash they did that raised the rev limit even more and also changed the A/F for the added down pipe they did

 

Sorry to tell you but that does not exist that was typo error from the magazine I have been down to church 3 times since 2008 to get my reflash , exhaust , dyno and some other things done from Shawn church and that was the first thing I asked .

 

Here is the thread from back in 2009 and we are talking about that same article and some pics from my visit to church and dyno .https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/pictures-my-09-rdx-custom-church-exhaust-698126/

 

i want my money back from the magazine company for that error =)

 

As long as you keep the stock intake, you should be able to do whatever you want to the exhaust side without issue. Even the DP + Hondata reflash should be safe as long as you're on the stock intake.

The AFM reading is key.

If the AFM is metering air accurately for the ECU, the ECU will compensate for the added flow on the exhaust side automatically. It can do this to compensate for just about anything, as long as there is injector left to cover the fueling demand.

 

based on...? Only CPE changes the diameter at the sensor

 

Not sure I understand the question...

 

this. CPE changes diameter to try and lean it out.

 

Right, and if you lean it out with the intake, then add hondata reflash, it gets even leaner. I'll bet that the two together with the stock DP are already leaner than the engine should be, but since this engine is so stout, it puts up with it.

Let me elaborate more since I was vague the first time.

If you don't have a catless DP. You have no way to accurately measure the AFR. As you can't put a wideband in unless you weld a bung onto the primary stock cat. I doubt people want to do or do do that since the stock primary cat is $$$$.

If people have been measuring the AFR after the cat, that's junk. You can't measure AFR after a cat, it's never correct. It's always off by -at least- .5 AFR, and with our dual cat setup, it's going to be even worse if you try a tail pipe sniffer.

Once you've pulled the cat and put a catless DP on, you can measure the AFR via an in-pipe aftermarket wideband. If you're seeing that it's lean with the CAI/Reflash/DP and freak out, maybe you say that it's the fault of this or that and undo things. The reality is though, that if you stick with the stock intake and just use the reflash, the car should be fine and the AFR should actually still be within the safe zone. As long as the ECU has the ability to properly measure the air flow into the engine, it will inject the proper amount of fuel to hit it's AFR target up until the injectors run out of headroom. That's just how an AFM system works.

I've been tuning Honda's AFM systems since there has been aftermarket tuning in existence to do so. I know the system intimately.

 

Amen - And I can say that I had a catless dp with the plx a/f wideband on it.
I had it link up with the CP&E cai - it was running a little lean but I won't even put the reflash , intake and downpipe together.

That burning smell is from your engine and not heater.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=42

 

I would think though that the best combo would be the stock intake, reflash and catless dp. That would make the most power by far. I measured the output of adding the CPe intake on my RDX and it was at best a few lb ft of torque at low rpm with almost no HP gain up top. Companies fake their dyno results ALL THE TIME. If they use an inertia dyno (dynojet, others..) it's really easy to show gains without them really being there. It's a massive issue in the industry.

 

yeah, i understand the whole stock rich, hondata lean deal, i was just thinking about CPE being the only one i know of that actually changes the diameter to lean it out more. Seems the both of you only detailed CPE in the RDX...not claiming any other intake would have safe ratios in that combo, just food for thought on different intakes. especially if the only one known tested specifically changed the diameter to purposely lean it out.

 

Actually, as a general rule, changing the intake on an AFM or MAF based car without re-calibrating the Voltage > g/s table in the ECU is considered a big no-no. Only intake manufacturers that have been building intakes for AFM cars for many many years can be trusted to actually get the flow dynamics and diameter around the sensor right so the ECU will not get improper readings. Even then, you don't know until you start datalogging and seeing what the ECU is doing under different conditions.

One of the big things about AFM systems is the reversion pulses from the exhaust stroke and cam overlap. The stock intakes on AFM cars have specially designed chambers in the resonator and strategically placed vanes in the intake pipe to cancel out these pulses and smooth the air flow so they don't throw off the readings at the AFM. Aftermarket intakes almost never account for this. If you have the ability to re-calibrate the ECU, you can at least compensate a bit, but even then, it'll never be as smooth or consistent in daily driving as the stock setup.

This is a major contrast to the MAP based tuning of Honda / Acura of old. There's a reason all of us with newer Civics change the ECU logic through Hondata back to the old school MAP style tuning. It eliminates all of this nonsense so you can just enjoy making power.

 

So.......... Is this going anywhere? If it's not does anyone actually know where I can buy a quality downpipe and midpipe?