krandhawa

Hello,

I need some help from the users here. I am going to be purchasing a CAI for my 08 rdx shortly, and I am torn between either the CPE, or the K&N. What would other users reccommend, for bigger HP gains, and better sound, better quality?

Also, with the hondata reflash vs the pro, all I am planning to do is add these 2 upgrades, as I am still in school and cannot afford much else. With plans to only add an CAI, would i be better suited to just go with the regular reflash or the pro? also with problems with running lean, would one option be better than the other.

My options are as follows:

1. K&N CAI + Reflash
2. K&N CAI + Reflash pro
3.CPE CAI + Reflash
4. CPE CAI + Reflash Pro

I greatly appreciate everyones help in advance, because i am obviously alittle lost.

What would be better?

bluecarbonfiber

if all yuo ever plan to do is those upgrades then the reflash is for you.. if you plan to do more then flashpro is needed.. the cpe-reflash will give you the most hp for the buck, but i am sure once tuning is done the k&n and the cpe will be close.. both intakes will give you the turbo whine and the BOV sound.. some people like it others dont

user65

Do not run the basic reflash and any cold air intake. It is too lean.

If you want safe AFR's you need the flash pro and an intake.

bluecarbonfiber

^ thats false.. hate to break it to ya.. what leans it out is the DP with full exhaust and the intake all together.. if you are just running the intake and a reflash you are still safe

krandhawa

With the issues of running lean is one intake better than the other..also I live in a higher altitude area, and have easy access to higher octane gas (94) if that would help the leanÉ

Thanks alot for your help bluecarbon, seems like your answering all my questions in all my threads, I really appreciate your info.

Mr Marco

Nice perk.

Mr Marco

CPe

bluecarbonfiber

not sure on the octane how much it would help.. but if you are just planning on for ever running the intake and reflash then the cp-e and reflash is going to give you the better bang for your buck.. i have noticed with my K&n filter alone i lose about a half a mile to the gallon and thats me driving like a granny.. if you lean it out alittle with the cp-e and reflash then you will still be safe and probably notice alittle more mpg.. so the main thing you have to ask yourself is will you forever run just the intake and reflash??.. if its a yes then you are fine.. if you want to do the exhaust.. you will be fine but once you do the mid and downpipe you are screwed..

user65

I'm just recommending what was told to me direct from Hondata. During the beta testing they didn't want me running the intake until they tuned it. Said it was dangerously lean with the intake and wouldn't let me drive home or come back until done - stock or modified.

BigHatch

I've ran K&N intake & reflash for quite a while. Just got back from a 100 degree trip to vegas. Even with the elevation and heat it's always been fine.

...and CA 91 octane

user65

Same here. I've been driving around with my reflash and intake and I never felt any issues. Feeling and seeing are two different things tho. Again, just passing along what was told to me by Hondata. Take it with a grain of salt.

BigHatch

yeah, of course we drove that run a lil differently than a mid winter blast when it's in the high 20's, low 30's.

Mr Marco

Until what was done? The intake was back to stock?

Testing would need to start with all stock car so that someone who only bought a flashpro and had no plans for other mods would see results,
and those results could be documented.
Otherwise how would we know what the real gains were?

user65

Until the car was tuned with FlashPro.

I brought the car all stock, and per request left the k&n in the car for hondata to install. They wanted to test with just the intake I guess. After they did the initial runs/testing they took the k&n off the car and didn't want me driving home with it because "it runs extremely lean with the reflash and intake" and told me not to install it, as they would after tuning it to correct afr's

Mr Marco

Got it. thanks.

EcLm

As for the OP, I have a K&N intake for sell if it'll help with ur decision. It has about 1,000 miles on it.

I bought a cp-e intake a while ago before I knew about the plans for a down pipe so I was originally planning on running just a cp-e and reflash. Then after I heard about the downpipe I ordered the K&N, but now that there's a flashpro, I went with the cp-e.

$180 for the K&N shipped? I got it for $240

nightdown fox

This makes total sense to me. Every MAF sensor based turbo car I've driven -- Mazdaspeeds, WRXs, etc, need to have proper tuning for the intake to prevent lean situations. MAP sensor based turbo cars like the original SRT-4 don't need to be tuned, but they also hardly see a 1 WHP increase in power with an intake.

People on the WRX forums throw intakes on all the time without correct tuning because "friends had it on for a year with no problems". Then they check the Accessport and see their fuel trims and AFRs are ridiculously skewed. Just because it drives well with the ECU jacking up the fuel trims to fight lean conditions doesn't mean it's safe.

Mr Marco

^You can speak for a Subie because you own one. So let me fill you in on the Mazdaspeed since you haven't owned one.
It will toss codes/check engine light right away with a lean condition. Mostly related to a cheap intake at idle.
If your buddies on the forums are still driving with a light on the dash it's their fault when they fry a piston.

Tuning with Cobb is not going to fix a "Takeda" issue.

bluecarbonfiber

an intake will naturally lean a vehicle out its why there is a hp increase.. but to reflash and run an intake solely you wont have an issue many people have done it since 07 in fact ive seen intake and exhaust with reflash done and the A/F is still safe

nightdown fox

Actually, I owned a '07 Mazdaspeed6 before the WRX, and my bro-in-law has a MS3, both had/have Cobb intakes with Stage2 tuning. The stock intake on the MS6/3 was a tangled mess, which is why we went Cobb.

It sounds like we're saying the same thing though, which is I personally would not run an intake on a MAF based turbo vehicle without proper tuning... Because of the issues you described with the Mazdaspeeds, and the extreme leaning out in the WRX too. That's why I roll my eyes when the WRX people don't listen, throw an intake on without a tune, and then come back a few months later with issues.

Obviously I'm new to the RDX platform, and people seem to not have issues with running an intake in it stock, but I still would be weary about it personally... especially if there are going to be tunes available specific to the intake.

nightdown fox

That's what I'm reading around the forums, and obviously I'm a noob to the RDX platform... But I would still be curious about seeing fuel trims for the reflash/intake cars. I would think the ecu would be dumping more fuel to keep that A/F in a safe range... But again, it could be different in the RDX world.

Mr Marco

pics?

bluecarbonfiber

dig around and you will find..


http://www.hondata.com/reflash_rdx_intake_test.html


so i still stand intake and reflash will be safe..

Mr Marco

Here's one car...where's your speed6?



Pics or it never happened, darkfox.

hondata

This is incorrect. The MAF sensor is the primary method of measuring the grams/ second of air entering the engine. The engine computer is calibrated to turn the voltage from the MAF sensor into a grams/second of air value. From this the correct amount of fuel needed is easily calculated.

If you change the diameter of housing around the MAF sensor the computer needs recalibration. MAF sensors do not function well on bends where the air is turbulent. They are best placed in the middle of the straightest section of pipe and not too close to the throttle plate. Honda MAF sensors are most often placed in a tapered plastic tube, something aftermarket manufacturers do not do. A tapered tube has different flow characteristics than one with parallel sides.

The MAF sensor samples a percentage of the airflow, so if the intake is made larger in diameter ( without recalibrating the computer) the MAF sensor samples a smaller % and the engine runs leaner. If the intake is made smaller in diameter with no ECU recalibration the engine will run richer as the MAF samples a larger % of the incoming air.

Bottom line, if the aftermarket intake is well designed, the computer can be calibrated correctly for it.

Mr Marco

Then why did you test with the aftermarket intake on the car?

bluecarbonfiber

what about vehicles that dont have MAF sensors located on the intake? my comment was to be taken as general rule of thumb.. so let me refrase it.. Most (not all) aftermarket intakes generally lean out a vehile due to (design) which is why aftermarket intakes can generally get there HP increase in numbers.. since most (not all) stock vehicles run alittle rich from factory a aftermarket intake is to help lean the vehicle to help get those increase hp numbers but in a safely done manner

hondata

So that a calibration could be developed with the correct air flow meter settings for, in this case, the K&N intake.

This calibration is included with the FlashPro for the RDX.

hondata

The general function of an aftermarket air intake is, via low restriction filtering, or cold / ram air filter placement, to help the the engine ingest more oxygen. The function of the engine management system is to measure the amount of oxygen and deliver the chemically correct amount of fuel for either maximum power (full throttle), or lowest emissions (part throttle).

Earlier generations of engine use Speed Density (RPM and MAP sensor readings) to derive the correct amount of fuel to inject. The most common reason why engines run rich at high load and RPM is to protect the catalytic converter from overheating damage.

nightdown fox

^that makes sense to me, right down to the MAP sensor on my old SRT-4. But it's a moot point for me anyway since the wife doesn't want any more intake noise, so looks like I'm just gonna get the base tune with the stock intake.

Yikes, that's an old pic... Before I painted the stock rims gold.



My pics are on my old rig, but here's a crappy one of my MS6 I had on my iPad... Used it as a tester for Cobb when they switched over to boost based logic instead of load based logic.

mattyb22

@hondata

I have the CP-E intake on a 2011 RDX and want to get the Flashpro or reflash (would prefer Flashpro). After installing the Flashpro Manager on my laptop, all I see are the calibrations for stock or tuned. What calibration would I select to use with the CP-E that would provide safe AFR's, or would I have to also get it tuned locally?

wspy

The stock calibration Matty.

Tomtwtwtw

Another question for anyone that knows...just got my Flashpro in the mail today and I noticed several calibrations available for the 2007-2009 RDX, but for 2010+ it is separated by model year and drivetrain, and each only has "stock" and "tuned". Are there any actual ECU differences among the model years, and if not are all calibrations compatible across all model years? i.e. can I flash the 2007-9 "tuned, K&N SRI" calibration to my 2010 RDX?

Many thanks

bluecarbonfiber

mine had a stock tuned calibration for my 2010.. the motors from 07-12 are identical only thing changed was cosmetics.. i would think the flash works for all years... you could check with hondata to confirm it

Tomtwtwtw

I do know there are 3 different part numbers for the ECU - 2007-9, 2010-11, and 2012. However whether the software is different or not is another question. I sent a PM to Hondata...hopefully they can confirm. Either way I'll play around with it tomorrow since I don't even have an intake to play with.




Yet.