WHY No code when atf leaking through radiator???
10-06-2017, 08:47 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
WHY No code when atf leaking through radiator???
2008 RDX maybe 95k miles. Have owned almost a year.
A few times over the past couple of months, I noticed what I felt was a 'floaty' feeling while driving, between 20-40 MPH, but figured it might be the stop & go traffic & hills/mountains turbo not kicking as fast or something. Only happened a few times with long intervals inbetween & I was unable to reproduce it.
Fast forward to yesterday. Car parked at work all day, leave work, have 1 errand to run, a short 7 mile trip before driving home.
While I was driving up a steep incline (read super steep with bends) it felt like something wasn't kicking in properly, like it wasn't accelerating right.
Once it started to level off, it felt really 'floaty' between 30-40 mph, like that feeling when driving an old Lincoln on cruise control floaty is the only way I can describe (my g'pap had old lincolns). Anyway, I get to my destination, car parked about 40 minutes.
I did notice when walking past it, it seemed to be giving off some heat from the front end when walking by, but passed that off as it being the 1st cool day in a while & a slight rain going on.
I started her up & temp was normal, not quite to the middle.
Driving down the mountain, no issue. Once on flatter terrain, the floaty thing starts big time, & I notice something sounds louder like I am accelerating when I am not. It is not getting up to 40 mph & my rpms start going crazy, so I back off the gas, rpms go down & it shifts into gear with a lurch. This is an issue because I am on a highway with semi's & NEED to be able to accelerate. I am stuck on the road for a few miles & I notice I can control it somewhat by backing off the gas to get to the next gear, & keep waiting for a code. No code. Nothing.
I keep checking engine temp & it's normal, but I still pull off as soon as possible, I only had 10 miles left to travel home but I'd be on a road that there is no where to pull over & it was just too much lagging & lurching between gears.
I pull into a shopping center parking lot & call my roadside assistance for a tow. Engine temps normal. No smoke or steam. Idling normally.
While waiting the 2+ hours for my tow, my friend arrived & I started the car & he noticed a smell after I started the car. I backed it up to the space behind me & there was tranny fluid on the ground.
So there's that. I was mostly hoping it was a hose because when I crawled under it, I could only see a small amount of fluid on the passenger side where there were hoses etc.
Today the dealership stated my radiator is cracked straight down the center & it needs replaced. They stated the tranny is fine, has no damage, but needs flushed.
Of course, none of this is covered by my 'gold' warranty. Rad is only covered under 'platinum'....
This is a Subaru dealership, the place where I purchased her used.
They were initially going to ship her off to the acura dealership stating they might not have the special tools needed for acura???
Then they called me back & said everything was straight forward, I needed to replace my radiator & flush the tranny & replace fluids & they could fix it no issue.
The price they are quoting me is $644.85, this includes radiator/parts/fluids/labor.
I got them to come down $100 from $743 because I purchased the car & warranty from them less than a year ago. Because this is not a covered repair under my warranty, I do not get a rental car. I guess my repair is not expensive enough for them to give me a loaner car-so I am without a car or pay for rental out of pocket for 3 days.
Is this a good price considering it is a dealership?
How do they know there is no tranny damage?
WHY WHY WHY did I not get a code for ANYTHING???
That damn thing goes off if I don't twist the gas cap like a mad woman, it goes off when I get an oil change, but something very real & dangerous was occurring & no codes-no warning-nothing.
Is there anything in particular that I should make sure is included with this repair?
Since the kid on the phone couldn't seems to answer any of my questions clearly, I am going tomorrow in person I want to see if the radiator IS in fact cracked. I was told it is split straight down the center.
I think I would have noticed SOMETHING if that were the case--I popped the hood 3 times while in the parkinglot waiting on my tow--twice it was running & once it was not. No steam-nothing.
I did see the tranny fluid on the ground.
What do I need to watch out for?
A few times over the past couple of months, I noticed what I felt was a 'floaty' feeling while driving, between 20-40 MPH, but figured it might be the stop & go traffic & hills/mountains turbo not kicking as fast or something. Only happened a few times with long intervals inbetween & I was unable to reproduce it.
Fast forward to yesterday. Car parked at work all day, leave work, have 1 errand to run, a short 7 mile trip before driving home.
While I was driving up a steep incline (read super steep with bends) it felt like something wasn't kicking in properly, like it wasn't accelerating right.
Once it started to level off, it felt really 'floaty' between 30-40 mph, like that feeling when driving an old Lincoln on cruise control floaty is the only way I can describe (my g'pap had old lincolns). Anyway, I get to my destination, car parked about 40 minutes.
I did notice when walking past it, it seemed to be giving off some heat from the front end when walking by, but passed that off as it being the 1st cool day in a while & a slight rain going on.
I started her up & temp was normal, not quite to the middle.
Driving down the mountain, no issue. Once on flatter terrain, the floaty thing starts big time, & I notice something sounds louder like I am accelerating when I am not. It is not getting up to 40 mph & my rpms start going crazy, so I back off the gas, rpms go down & it shifts into gear with a lurch. This is an issue because I am on a highway with semi's & NEED to be able to accelerate. I am stuck on the road for a few miles & I notice I can control it somewhat by backing off the gas to get to the next gear, & keep waiting for a code. No code. Nothing.
I keep checking engine temp & it's normal, but I still pull off as soon as possible, I only had 10 miles left to travel home but I'd be on a road that there is no where to pull over & it was just too much lagging & lurching between gears.
I pull into a shopping center parking lot & call my roadside assistance for a tow. Engine temps normal. No smoke or steam. Idling normally.
While waiting the 2+ hours for my tow, my friend arrived & I started the car & he noticed a smell after I started the car. I backed it up to the space behind me & there was tranny fluid on the ground.
So there's that. I was mostly hoping it was a hose because when I crawled under it, I could only see a small amount of fluid on the passenger side where there were hoses etc.
Today the dealership stated my radiator is cracked straight down the center & it needs replaced. They stated the tranny is fine, has no damage, but needs flushed.
Of course, none of this is covered by my 'gold' warranty. Rad is only covered under 'platinum'....
This is a Subaru dealership, the place where I purchased her used.
They were initially going to ship her off to the acura dealership stating they might not have the special tools needed for acura???
Then they called me back & said everything was straight forward, I needed to replace my radiator & flush the tranny & replace fluids & they could fix it no issue.
The price they are quoting me is $644.85, this includes radiator/parts/fluids/labor.
I got them to come down $100 from $743 because I purchased the car & warranty from them less than a year ago. Because this is not a covered repair under my warranty, I do not get a rental car. I guess my repair is not expensive enough for them to give me a loaner car-so I am without a car or pay for rental out of pocket for 3 days.
Is this a good price considering it is a dealership?
How do they know there is no tranny damage?
WHY WHY WHY did I not get a code for ANYTHING???
That damn thing goes off if I don't twist the gas cap like a mad woman, it goes off when I get an oil change, but something very real & dangerous was occurring & no codes-no warning-nothing.
Is there anything in particular that I should make sure is included with this repair?
Since the kid on the phone couldn't seems to answer any of my questions clearly, I am going tomorrow in person I want to see if the radiator IS in fact cracked. I was told it is split straight down the center.
I think I would have noticed SOMETHING if that were the case--I popped the hood 3 times while in the parkinglot waiting on my tow--twice it was running & once it was not. No steam-nothing.
I did see the tranny fluid on the ground.
What do I need to watch out for?
10-07-2017, 11:03 AM
#2
Senior Moderator
Because there are no sensors in the radiator that would somehow notice trans fluid is in it versus coolant.
It's a bit pricey as you can buy a DENSO radiator on Amazon for 150 bucks, 2 gallons of Honda fluid for 50, and a couple quarts of ATF for 50 and DIY or find an independent mechanic
It's a bit pricey as you can buy a DENSO radiator on Amazon for 150 bucks, 2 gallons of Honda fluid for 50, and a couple quarts of ATF for 50 and DIY or find an independent mechanic
10-07-2017, 08:33 PM
#4
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I get there are no sensors in the rad, but if transmission fluid was leaking something should go off. It wasn't changing gears etc.
At least I caught it quick & nothing over heated. It was safely towed to the STEALERSHIP because it's one of the conditons of the warranty I purchased & I didn't yet know if it was covered or not.
So here is where it is at. I tried for 8 hours solid to get a formal estimate/quote for parts labor etc...
The dealership was playing games with me I asked multiple times on the phone & via email what exactly was wrong with my car & no one would give me a straight answer.
Then I got the 'Head Service Advisor" on the phone--his avoiding my very simple & direct questions "what is wrong with my car exactly & please provide my estimate in writing so I know what is being quoted"
The "service advisor" said to me, verbatim "I am looking at the radiator right now & it is split straight down the middle & needs replaced".
My **Bull sh*t** meter went off immediately.
So much so that I had someone drive me there today & I asked to see my radiator, because, well, there was no way my radiator was completely split down the center & I felt like I was being taken advantage of because they have my car & I am a woman, so they figure I know nothing about cars. Plus they have so far refused to give me a proper estimate, lead me to believe I would have a loaner car & backed out of that 5 minutes before close & shut their phones off & would not answer my call back-they emailed me...
When I arrived, that same exact "service advisor" was there he denied not answering my questions & stated very smug & matter of fact:" I told you your transmission was cracked, split right down the middle"
So, at that point, I said "so now my transmission is cracked down the middle?" Take me to my car I want to see exactly what is wrong with it. At this point he tried to back peddle, and change it to 'I meant radiator', I insisted on seeing my radiator which is "split completely down the center", since I have never seen one. Even though my car was on the lift, they made me wait, but eventually let me see my rad. It was not in fact split down the middle, it was 1 solid piece & looked mostly perfect with the exception of those 2 lines that go into it. Go figure.
So I just stood there observing the 'service advisor" I watched as he sweat trying to tell me it was cracked, but it was invisible & I could not see it from the outside. At that point the technician was there & I said "so the issue was the transcooler failed" he said "ya" & I asked about if the fluid that was drained was clear or milky, he said 'chocolate milk'. I asked the actual technician if the replacement was OEM equivalent because that IS what I asked for MULTIPLE TIMES. The tech said "no it is not", at the same time the 'service advisor' said "yes it is" lol. I asked to see what brand & the part number. I said I was OK if it was Denso, since it was exact replacement & didn't need to be from Acura's catalogue. He tried to assure me it was Denso....But I KNEW the technician wasn't lying.
I said "show me what you ordered & the part number". He did not want to show me. He said the part was not in yet. I said show me what you ordered. I gave him the denso part # & he could not find it on his computer, finally he admitted it was not denso but that they would order it for me. He said it was some brand he had it written down as "Generol" & said something that sounded like generic.
I asked again for a print out of the work to be done & parts & labor with a quote. He said that was impossible until I paid my bill & I could have a copy of that.
Something tells me this is NOT standard protocol for a dealership. Anytime I have ever been to a dealership, I have been given ridiculous intriplicate forms that have every freakin part on it & the price.
They will tell you to take it home & review it.
Since this "Service Advisor" acts like he runs the entire place & is obviously a FU**TARD--who do I go to what level of mgmt. at a dealership actually does something about stuff like this???
They have my car, it was towed there, it is 45 minutes from me & I have not been able to secure a rental yet. The "service advisor' had also stated multiple times that I should be happy they are getting it looked at so fast because it is an acura & not a Subaru. I said "I bought it here & my warranty states to bring it here". He is trying to act like he is doing me a favor, & that this is my fault, & that now I will have to wait longer because they have to order the Denso rad...
If he would have listened to me in the 1st place this would not be an issue.
This issue is not covered by my warranty & I would have to pay to have it towed out of there.
I feel like a prisoner.
I don't have an issue with the tech doing the work. He didn't lie & he didn't try to make excuses for the Fu**tard 'service advisor'.
I also felt very comfortable with this dealership BEFORE this issue. They get 4 & 5 start ratings, unlike most of the other dealerships.
My experience buying a used car from them was wonderful & I have recommended them a LOT to others.
I want to get this resolved with upper management, but if it is going to be a waste of time trying to do that, maybe I should just pull out my car & get a rental for a week.
Thoughts???
The part # I gave for the Denso was 221-3238 coming up at about $159 from partsgeek-which it appears is where they are ordering it from now that I was there...
How do I CONFIRM it is a Denso once installed if I allow them to do the work??? Will I be able to see a makers mark somewhere once it is in???
This could have been simple.
They could have just told me what was wrong with my car & they could have just asked what I wanted the radiator replaced with because I said MULIPLE TIMES when the rad issue came up that I wanted a price on oem or equivalent, I was told they would get me that info...they did not.
What is wrong with these people???
At least I caught it quick & nothing over heated. It was safely towed to the STEALERSHIP because it's one of the conditons of the warranty I purchased & I didn't yet know if it was covered or not.
So here is where it is at. I tried for 8 hours solid to get a formal estimate/quote for parts labor etc...
The dealership was playing games with me I asked multiple times on the phone & via email what exactly was wrong with my car & no one would give me a straight answer.
Then I got the 'Head Service Advisor" on the phone--his avoiding my very simple & direct questions "what is wrong with my car exactly & please provide my estimate in writing so I know what is being quoted"
The "service advisor" said to me, verbatim "I am looking at the radiator right now & it is split straight down the middle & needs replaced".
My **Bull sh*t** meter went off immediately.
So much so that I had someone drive me there today & I asked to see my radiator, because, well, there was no way my radiator was completely split down the center & I felt like I was being taken advantage of because they have my car & I am a woman, so they figure I know nothing about cars. Plus they have so far refused to give me a proper estimate, lead me to believe I would have a loaner car & backed out of that 5 minutes before close & shut their phones off & would not answer my call back-they emailed me...
When I arrived, that same exact "service advisor" was there he denied not answering my questions & stated very smug & matter of fact:" I told you your transmission was cracked, split right down the middle"
So, at that point, I said "so now my transmission is cracked down the middle?" Take me to my car I want to see exactly what is wrong with it. At this point he tried to back peddle, and change it to 'I meant radiator', I insisted on seeing my radiator which is "split completely down the center", since I have never seen one. Even though my car was on the lift, they made me wait, but eventually let me see my rad. It was not in fact split down the middle, it was 1 solid piece & looked mostly perfect with the exception of those 2 lines that go into it. Go figure.
So I just stood there observing the 'service advisor" I watched as he sweat trying to tell me it was cracked, but it was invisible & I could not see it from the outside. At that point the technician was there & I said "so the issue was the transcooler failed" he said "ya" & I asked about if the fluid that was drained was clear or milky, he said 'chocolate milk'. I asked the actual technician if the replacement was OEM equivalent because that IS what I asked for MULTIPLE TIMES. The tech said "no it is not", at the same time the 'service advisor' said "yes it is" lol. I asked to see what brand & the part number. I said I was OK if it was Denso, since it was exact replacement & didn't need to be from Acura's catalogue. He tried to assure me it was Denso....But I KNEW the technician wasn't lying.
I said "show me what you ordered & the part number". He did not want to show me. He said the part was not in yet. I said show me what you ordered. I gave him the denso part # & he could not find it on his computer, finally he admitted it was not denso but that they would order it for me. He said it was some brand he had it written down as "Generol" & said something that sounded like generic.
I asked again for a print out of the work to be done & parts & labor with a quote. He said that was impossible until I paid my bill & I could have a copy of that.
Something tells me this is NOT standard protocol for a dealership. Anytime I have ever been to a dealership, I have been given ridiculous intriplicate forms that have every freakin part on it & the price.
They will tell you to take it home & review it.
Since this "Service Advisor" acts like he runs the entire place & is obviously a FU**TARD--who do I go to what level of mgmt. at a dealership actually does something about stuff like this???
They have my car, it was towed there, it is 45 minutes from me & I have not been able to secure a rental yet. The "service advisor' had also stated multiple times that I should be happy they are getting it looked at so fast because it is an acura & not a Subaru. I said "I bought it here & my warranty states to bring it here". He is trying to act like he is doing me a favor, & that this is my fault, & that now I will have to wait longer because they have to order the Denso rad...
If he would have listened to me in the 1st place this would not be an issue.
This issue is not covered by my warranty & I would have to pay to have it towed out of there.
I feel like a prisoner.
I don't have an issue with the tech doing the work. He didn't lie & he didn't try to make excuses for the Fu**tard 'service advisor'.
I also felt very comfortable with this dealership BEFORE this issue. They get 4 & 5 start ratings, unlike most of the other dealerships.
My experience buying a used car from them was wonderful & I have recommended them a LOT to others.
I want to get this resolved with upper management, but if it is going to be a waste of time trying to do that, maybe I should just pull out my car & get a rental for a week.
Thoughts???
The part # I gave for the Denso was 221-3238 coming up at about $159 from partsgeek-which it appears is where they are ordering it from now that I was there...
How do I CONFIRM it is a Denso once installed if I allow them to do the work??? Will I be able to see a makers mark somewhere once it is in???
This could have been simple.
They could have just told me what was wrong with my car & they could have just asked what I wanted the radiator replaced with because I said MULIPLE TIMES when the rad issue came up that I wanted a price on oem or equivalent, I was told they would get me that info...they did not.
What is wrong with these people???
10-07-2017, 09:13 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
Did you see fluid leaking on the floor? That's usually the best indicator
10-07-2017, 10:00 PM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
The transcooler took a crap.
I KNOW that.
What I don't know how to handle is all of the other garbage I am getting from the 'service advisor' that I stated above.
I KNOW that.
What I don't know how to handle is all of the other garbage I am getting from the 'service advisor' that I stated above.
10-08-2017, 10:57 PM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Well, all day long (sunday)I felt sick about my car being at that Subaru dealership after the BS they put me through. They aren't in on Sundays.
I decided 1st thing in the morning they are getting a call to not work on my car & I am pulling it out of there on a flat bed & towing it to the Acura dealership closest which is Spitzer Acura.
I'm too worried they will screw up something with my tranny or not use the proper fluids, they already lied to me about too many things.
This might be my only chance to hopefully salvage my tranny, I don't want anyone that isn't familiar with Acura touching it.
Nothing scarier than still owning $$$ on a car & having the tranny go.
I decided 1st thing in the morning they are getting a call to not work on my car & I am pulling it out of there on a flat bed & towing it to the Acura dealership closest which is Spitzer Acura.
I'm too worried they will screw up something with my tranny or not use the proper fluids, they already lied to me about too many things.
This might be my only chance to hopefully salvage my tranny, I don't want anyone that isn't familiar with Acura touching it.
Nothing scarier than still owning $$$ on a car & having the tranny go.
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10-08-2017, 11:16 PM
#8
Senior Moderator
Good call. I would do the same.
10-09-2017, 12:38 PM
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Has her flat bedded out of Kenny Ross Subaru & she is now sitting with Spitzer Acura.
I secured a rental car.
So the torture of that issue is over.
on a side note:
Just try to go from Honda/Acura or Toyota to a Ford Fiesta.
What happened to American cars? Even my old Pontiac Sunfire felt a ton better on it's deathbed with a blown head gasket than this new ford fiesta-wouldn't recommend one to anybody.
They look so cute in the ads, thought it would be fun, or feel similar to my old Honda civic--NOPE-it feels like driving the thinnest tin can ever & the handling sucks as does the visibility to view anything around the car.
I put my friend on as the driver & am instead driving his beater work car: '05 RAV-4 with over 100k miles-which feels like a real car.
I don't think I can go back to an American car brand, but at least Acura is made in the USA.
I secured a rental car.
So the torture of that issue is over.
on a side note:
Just try to go from Honda/Acura or Toyota to a Ford Fiesta.
What happened to American cars? Even my old Pontiac Sunfire felt a ton better on it's deathbed with a blown head gasket than this new ford fiesta-wouldn't recommend one to anybody.
They look so cute in the ads, thought it would be fun, or feel similar to my old Honda civic--NOPE-it feels like driving the thinnest tin can ever & the handling sucks as does the visibility to view anything around the car.
I put my friend on as the driver & am instead driving his beater work car: '05 RAV-4 with over 100k miles-which feels like a real car.
I don't think I can go back to an American car brand, but at least Acura is made in the USA.