OTT-TSX

I am about to get some winter tires for my RDX and had a quick question. I still have a set of 2004 TSX 17 inch alloys with winter tires on them, would these fit my RDX ? I don't care about the tires as I will be replacing them but would the wheels fit ?

Thanks

AbovePrime.

There shouldn't be any problems. Whats the offset?

OTT-TSX

I have no clue. I just know they are the standard 17 inch 2004 TSx rims.

AbovePrime.

Oh, it should be inside the rim somewhere, you shouldn't have any problems besides the TPMS system, that you would have to transfer into the TSX wheels or buy a new set.

OTT-TSX

Perfect I already have an extra set of TPM sensors.

Fishbulb

OTT-TSX - can you post once you have the tires mounted and the wheels put on? I'd also like to buy used TSX rims as winters, but I've heard various opinons on whether they'll work or not.

champlain

I did put 16 inch element mag on my RDX for winter so I can have more rubber between the road and me.

We have very bad road around here in Montreal.

OTT-TSX

Finally got them mounted last night and they fit fine. Even the TPS sensors that I bought on ebay work without a problem(from an mdx).

737 Jock

The RDX standard wheel size has a bolt pattern of 5-114mm, with an offset of 40mm, and a centerbore of 64.1mm.

The TL, TL-S, RSX and CR-V share the same specs, and are a direct bolt-on.

The TSX is only different in offset (48mm) and for the same width wheel this will move the wheel inboard about 1/4 inch, reducing overall track about 1/2 inch; not noticeable in street driving.

It appears most Honda wheels have a centerbore of 64.1mm. An aftermarket wheel with a larger centerbore will vibrate on the RDX, unless it is centered with hub-centric rings. They are available at most speedshops, and are measured by their inner diameter vs outer diameter.

Fishbulb

Great information, thanks OTT and 737.

I went to two Acura dealers in my area last year at this time, and both of them were ready to swear on a bible that neither the TL rims or the TSX rims would work on the RDX. They claimed the only "acura approved" solution to getting winter rims was to buy another set of RDX stock rims - at some ridiculous price.

googlefish

Is there certain years for the TL wheels that are the same specs as the RDX? A local dealer has 04-05 TL 17" wheels on clearout that I was considering for winter use. Even the dealer wasn't sure if the offset was the same (truth be told I don't even know what offset even means)

SinCity

737Jock: Good info on the wheel specs. Thanks for listing them.

Simba91102

The TL wheels are 8"' wide, which is really too wide for winter use (remember the rule of thumb for snow use is narrower is better). The offset is 45. Quick note on offset: virtually all FWD wheels (and sorry, but the RDX is based on a FWD chassis) are offset to the inside. The 45 is a MM measurement and indicates that the mounting surface of the wheel to the hub is offset 45MM to the the inside from the center of the wheel (in other words, if you drew a line through the wheel top to bottom where it's mounted to the hub, the line would be 45MM's off center with the extra on the inside of the wheel). 16's would be the way to go if you can find some that will fit the RDX (I'm not up to speed on what the 16" set up is for the RDX).

Simba91102

The offset of the OE TSX wheels 04 through 08 is 55 (and 17x7).

scudzuki

The offset is towards the outside of the wheel.

Joe

googlefish

When I checked TireRack's recommendation for winter tires, they suggested 17" wheels and tires of 225 65R 17 ....

So these size tires would not fit the TL 17" wheels?

Simba91102

Difference in interpretation, but you're right.

Simba91102

They should fit fine and actually the offset of the TL wheel is closer to the RDX (assuming the 40 offset number for the OE RDX wheels posted above is correct) than the TSX wheels (RDX @ 40, TL @ 45 versus the TSX @ 55)(15MM is a big difference in offset; I use TL wheels on my TSX for summer tires and the 10MM difference (45 versus 55) is quite noticeable (along with the extra 1" in width)). I'd still prefer probably a 7" wheel (width) with the tires suggested by Tire Rack, but if the TL wheel deal is too good to pass up then it would work.

737 Jock

Small correction: the offset is 42mm. I had the wheels off, and the offset is stamped inside the hub. I measured it as well.

Offset is the measure between the wheel centerline and the hub mounting surface. The RDX has a positive offset; that is, the hub mounting surface is outboard of the wheel centerline by 42mm. So a smaller offset means the hub is deeper in the wheel, pushing the wheel out. A larger offset means the hub is closer to the outer surface, drawing the wheel in.

Bear in mind that offset will vary with the wheel width. For instance, if you wanted to reduce width from the OEM 8.5" to 8.0" and the new wheel offset remained at 42, the wheels would mount 1/4" inboard (the wheel being 1/2" narrower, 1/4" comes off either side of centerline). This reduces track between the wheels by 1/2".

To put on 8.0 wide wheels and keep the same track, the offset would have to be reduced by 7mm (1/4"), pushing the wheels outboard. The offset on 8.0" wheels would be 35mm. You could also do this with 1/4" spacers, but that requires longer lugs and is generally less safe.

Take a look at the Legend wheels for the RDX on the Ronjon site. The Legend Type II is 8.5" wide with an offset of 40mm. However, the Legend GT is 8.0" wide with an offset of 32mm. This is to keep the same track.

So if TL or CR-V wheels are 8.0 wide, then the offset should be aprox 35mm to keep the same track. If the offset is around 40, the wheels will mount with a slightly narrower track.

MMike1981

737...alllllll over it!

Fishbulb

So, based on these varying offsets, is there any consensus as to the "ideal" oem Honda 17'' wheel to use for winter? If a smaller offset is required for a narrower rim, surely the tsx, at 55, is going to be set pretty inboard on the rdx, no?

Would the current CRV wheel be the best candidate?

SinCity

737: Glad you brought out the subject of TRACK. What adverse affects would we have if we widen the track? I'm looking at a wheel at is 8.5" wide and offset of 35mm. Aesthecially, the stock wheels look a little too sunken in. But practicality is another story.

737 Jock

Widening the track yields a higher Static Stability Factor. SSF is track/2xCG height. For the RDX that is 62.25" track/2x 24.7 CG height = 1.26 SSF.

The offset of 35 moves each wheel outboard 1/4", increasing track to 62.75". Put that into the equation: 62.75/2x24.7= 1.27 SSF. This improves cornering stability. See how a higher SSF resists rollover on the NHTSA chart:



Provided the tires don't rub on the wheel wells at steering lock, you have improved the performance of your RDX. What size tire will you mount? Is the outer diameter about the same?

Just for fun, note that lowering the RDX by 3/4" and increasing the track by 1" (63.25/2x24.0) yields a SSF of 1.32, equal to the go-cart-like Honda Fit (of course, suspension tuning is important too).

737 Jock

OK, let's consider that OTT-TSX has the TSX wheels mounted and we know they fit. Simba says they're 7" wide and offset at 55mm.

In the worst case the 7" width will reduce the track by 1.5", and the inboard offset reduces another 1/2" per side: new track = 59.75".

59.75/2x24.7 yields a SSF of 1.21. This is equal to a Toyota Highlander and still better than most SUVs. You are still in the 4 star rollover range, and you've still got the RDX performance suspension working for you.

Since the objective is snow functionality -- not racing Mini Coopers through the twisties -- the TSX wheels should be fine.

Yes, a narrower wheel offset to approximate the same track will give the best snow performance with with minimal SSF reduction.

737 Jock

Let me make that clearer:

A narrower wheel, that is offset to approximate the same track, will give the best snow performance, with minimal SSF reduction.

SinCity

19" = 245/50/19
20" = 245/45/20

Both about 1.7% larger than stock rolling diameter.

737 Jock

The OEM Michelins have a section width of 9.7" and outer diameter of 28.4"

The offset on the wheels you want will move the wheels outboard about 1/4" or 0.25".

I don't know what tire you're looking at, so I checked Yokohoma, Avon and Goodyear specs on Tire Rack.

In 245/50/19 Yokohoma Advans have a s.w. of 10.1" and o.d. of 28.7". Half of the 0.4" s.w. increase is outboard of the wheel centerline (0.2") and half is inboard. So the 0.2" outboard width plus the 0.25" offset means you have moved the outer tire surface 0.45" closer to the outer wheel well.

On the inner side, the tire is 0.2" wider but the offset moves it 0.25" away from the inner wheel well; a 0.05" clearance increase.

Regarding diameter; the Advan is 0.3" taller than OEM. Again, half the increase (the radius increase) means you have moved the tread surface 0.15" closer to the wheel well.

In 245/45/20, the Avon Tech M550s measure s.w. 9.6" and o.d. 28.6". The Goodyear Eagle RSAs are 9.6" and 28.7". Both are smaller than the Yoko 19s.

The new wheels/tires in 19 or 20, will increase your track and improve your handling with a little less ride damping. Any UHP tire will grip better than the OEM Michelin.

The worst case clearance reduction is less than 1/2". Fit should be no problem, although there's only one way to find out.....

The other issue is unsprung weight. The OEM wheel weighs 26 lbs and the OEM Michelin weighs 29 lbs. Try to find a wheel/tire combo that doesn't exceed 55 lbs, and lighter is always better.

SinCity

737 Jock-Again, thank you for your analysis. No doubt it will help others here.

SinCity

737 Jock:

How about a Parada Spec X sized 255/40/20? Diameter 28.1" and Section Width 10.1". Overall diameter is .3" smaller which translate to 1.1% smaller than stock. Any adverse effect other than speedo reading 1.1% faster and mileage on odometer reading 1.1% more? Or is difference negligible?

Is it better to be 1.7% larger or 1.1% smaller?

737 Jock

As you pointed out, diameter affects the speedometer. A larger tire will be traveling about 2-3 mph faster than indicated, possibly attracting attention from the local constabulary. A smaller tire will rack up mileage faster, but have the advantage of a tighter turning circle.

It's mostly a personal choice. If you're going for looks, the larger tire will fill the well better.

If unsprung weight is important to you, the Parada is about 3 lbs heavier than OEM; a difference which could be made up with a lightweight wheel, provided it's structure will support the RDX.

More unsprung mass increases resistance to changing direction. When a heavier wheel rebounds up from a bump, the spring will not reverse it's direction and return it to contact with the pavement as quickly. Larger wheels and tires have more rotational mass farther from the hub, which resist acceleration and deceleration more. This won't be apparent in most driving conditions below 7/10s.

The larger wheel and smaller sidewall will still yield more responsive steering and greater lateral stability, while providing the appearance you want.

scudzuki

I put 18s on my last car (TL-S) and had 2 bent wheels within 6 months. With 235/40-18s, the TL handled awesome, but then I was driving faster all the time, compounding the issue of poor road surface quality. The OEM 17s were much beefier than practically any aftermarket wheel I've seen and would never have bent on the same roads. For this reason I would never put oversize aftermarket wheels with lower profile tires on a daily driver on Pennsylvania roads.

Joe

Fishbulb

Usually, going to a +1 on a quality alloy wheel will still have enough sidewall to protect on even the roughest public roads.

737 Jock

Wheel Collision Center, near ABE airport in Bath, PA, does excellent work restoring bent and damaged wheels. You can ship to them and get turnaround in about 2 weeks.

Wheel Collision Center

SinCity

I just ordered a set of 20" MRR Designs wheels from Element Motorsports. They tell me that the MDX has a 64.1 hub bore and the RDX is a 70.3. Are they mistaken?

737 Jock

It would appear that they are.

I measured mine to 64.1 when I last had it off the car.

Again, look at the RonJon Wheel site; the Legend GT has a center bore of 64.1 for the RDX. If the RDX hub was 70.4, the wheel would not fit over it.

It is a possibility that they mean the MRR wheel they are sending you has a centerbore of 70.4, which then would require hub-centric rings to adapt it to the RDX. Thier web-site doesn't specify centerbore specs, so it's a little hard to tell.

https://www.elementwheels.com/vehiclesearch.asp

737 Jock

I see from your Group Buy post that the HR-2s come with hub-centric rings.

Enjoy your new wheels!

JMJ3rd

737,

Would there be any negative issues besides rotating tires if I went with 9" in front and 10" in the rear?

http://axiswheels.com/wheels.php?id=gt-r

SinCity

They said they were going to send the 70 rings. I better tell them to use the 64 rings instead. Thank again 737.

737 Jock

Keep in mind that hub-centric rings are identified by both measurements: outer diameter/inner diameter, so yours should be referred to as something like 70.3/64.1, or just 70/64.

Not all companies use the exact measurement, some shave a 10th or so to account for inner or outer fit. Test fit them to the pilot hub and wheel bore before you put everything together. The fit should be very snug, but should slip on and off with nothing more than a little light tapping.

The rings come in two materials; aluminum or polycarbonate plastic. The aluminum may react with the high ferrous hub, corroding in place (pita to get off). The plastic is generally considered to be superior, although it can melt if the brakes get hot enough (usually from a dragging brake).

I've had both, and I prefer plastic. I keep a few extra in case of melting.

Also, make sure any repair place knows you have rings. Shop mechanics are under time pressure and often forget to put hub rings back on. It's good to have extras for that too.

SinCity

Got it. MRR wheel bore is something like 73mm. So I need a 73/64.1. I am glad you explained the difference between aluminum and plastic. I would never have thought that the plastic ones are better. You absolutely correct about aluminum corroding. Few people know this. In a body shop, you cannot use the same tools on sheetmetal and then take it over to the alumnium panel. Also, the two work areas have to be separated with a barrier.