heyitsme

Toyota already anounced the next camry will have awd, so if the next accord doesn't then Honda will have a problem. And that new toyota engine puts them in the same boat as nissan now, they can just tune and drop that engine in cars left and right. I wouldn't be surprised if we see an suv under the rx330 very soon.

phile

I wouldn't worry about AWD...the JDM Inspire (exactly the same as the US Accord) has AWD, if pushed come to shove, Honda can just bring that set up to counter the Camry. But I don't know if Honda would up the ante in the engine displacement department...

98AccordEx

I don't think it quite puts Toyota and Nissan in the same boat as Honda. Honda has 2 engine choices 3.0 and 3.5 liter V6s with HP in the 240-300 range. Nissan just has the 3.5L that they tweak for different uses but is never as fuel efficient as either of Hondas engines. Toyota is close with a 3.3L and 3.5L but Honda's 3.0 has more power than Toyota's 3.3L. It will be interesting to see the new Toyota 3.5L in a Lexus and whether it will top the 300HP of the RL's 3.5L.

I know the price of oil isn't $55/barrel and in the news constantly but rising gas prices are not over as an issue for automobile manufacturers. Small displacement V6s like the 3.0 Honda may prove to be more important than 300HP V6s and 500HP V8s if the cost of oil increases again.

I wonder if the V6 in the RDX will be below the 3.0, maybe a 2.8 or 2.5L V6 that could also appeal to other markets where gas is $5 a gallon.

donnydjr

I'm surprised that Honda or Acura has yet to announce an Ody with AWD...


Most of the other minivans have AWD available, and while the Ody is rock-solid in every other department, AWD would have to improve the snow and rain capability of the Ody, as well as the public's perception of safety for their family.

It's not like it would be that difficult (Pilot and MD-X already setup)?

phile

Honda stated that their research showed that AWD accounted for 1% of sales for minivans that have AWD as an option. So they're pretty much going with the same excuse for not offering a V8 option on their luxury sedans.

dom

Does Chrysler have an AWD option for their vans?

Precision Crafted

This is true, yet if Honda does decide to offer a sedan above the RL and there have been rumors to the such, then a V8 may be in the cars. To make the V8 viable, it will have to be used in several models.

As for spreading AWD to the Ody, I'm sure their research is correct, yet as a person who deals with research numbers, I can say that you can make numbers look anyway you want. Look at what BMW has done for the face lifted 7. A car that showed lagging sales comparied with its competitors now is called the most sucessful 7 ever. Yea, compaired to its forebares perhaps. BMW just justified the change as something planned as apart of the evolutionary process.

With AWD, the bean counters are putting in their two cents worth.

Just my 2 cents

phile

Definitely they'll need a V8 if they go above the RL, which they will per the Oracle. Supposedly the V8 will be in a flagship sedan, maybe shared with the MDX, or a real fullsize pickup truck? Or maybe even a fullsize SUV.

Precision Crafted

To me this is good news. While I like the new RL and consider it to be above and beyond it's forerunner it lacks something. I am not one who believes it needs a V8. I think it needs more power due to the added weight and I think it needs some more rear seat leg room and a somewhat bigger trunk.

The MDX would rock with a V8. It'll sell in lower numbers but for those need the extra pulling power it'll be a hit. A bigger motor for the Ridgeline does the same thing.

Zapata

all v6 honda/acuras will have SHAWD......

phile

AcuraFan

Where'd you hear this? I know they said SHAWD will be mated with V6s. But I haven't heard anywhere that all Hondas and Acuras with V6s will get it. Does that mean if the CRV gets a V6, it'll get SHAWD? (as well as the Pilot, Ody, MDX, TL and possibly RDX and NSX?)

Precision Crafted

If Honda is to offer AWD on sedans/ SUV's then maybe SH-AWD. I say if this is a choice they're looking at then Honda should only have VTM-4 and leave "Super Handling" to Acura.

Even if the CRV get's a V6 (since the next RAV4 should offer one) then VTM-4 seems good enough. Who buys a Honda (other then S2k and Civic Si) for performance anyway.

98AccordEx

Honda-acura.net posted a story about Honda developing a 2.4L 4cyl with turbo developing approx. 240-250HP.

http://www.honda-acura.net/index.php...aede97fc4f61ae

According to the story, it is slated fo rthe TSX and possibly the highest level Civic. No torque rating was discussed but wondering if this could also be in the plans for the RDX.

Precision Crafted

In the TSX section, I posted the same question as you regarding this pwr plant being used for the RDX. It was said that the hp would fall between the TSX and TL. I guess you could also say that 50hp is a little more then 200hp.

vicpai

......with the RDX (that is put a turbocharged 4cyl in there, or a 4 cylinder of any kind) I would NEVER buy it....and I would advise others also NEVER to buy it, unless they're stupid

Honda better friggin put a "6" in there, or there will be a lot people raging mad

Professor Gascan

I seem to remember people saying the same thing about the TSX before it came out.

I'll bite though, why would people be stupid to buy an RDX with a turbo 4. Let's say that it puts out 250hp and 230lb-ft from 3000rpm. How is this worse than buying a X3 3.0 with 225hp? Are you ignorant enough to believe that because it doesn't have 6 cylinders it isn't worthy?

AcuraFan

You bring up a good point. People were poopooing the TSX for it's 2.4l i4 but it turned out to be a critical and sales success. And considering the 2.4l produces similar power levels as the 3.0 in the X3, I think there's a chance we'll see the NA 2.4l in the RDX.

98AccordEx

A turbo 4cyl would be competitive against the V6's in other Crossover SUVs so why not.
Volvo, Audi and Subaru use 4 or 5cyl turbos and many prefer them to the V6 alternatives where offered. What would you buy a Subaru Outback Turbo or the boxer six for example?

vicpai

....that it is not just about peak power and torque numbers!!....Even a Subaru STi will give you that ....People buying an Acura are also looking for excellent overall levels of refinement, smoothness, quietness, linearity of power delivery etc. .....IF YOU GET MY DRIFT ......try as they may, these things are literally incompatible with a 4 cylinder motor......Besides this, while they may be able to achieve those peak hp numbers let me see them achieve those low-end torque numbers, even from a turbocharged 4 cylinder......and let me see them COMPLETELY ELIMINATE turbo lag!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Vic, obviously you haven't seen dyno graphs of the K24 in the TSX. Power is quite linear and I'm sure with Honda's knowledge, they would set up a turbo to keep that linearity. I wouldn't be so hasty to disregard a turbo K24. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

Professor Gascan

That's a lot of eye rolling for a bunch of knee jerk comments that have little to do with fact. First off, if you want a 4 cylinder motor that delivers on all of your bolded arguements, look no further than the TSX. End of arguement.
Second, the new VW GTI with the 2.0 Turbo 4 cylinder makes 207lb-ft of torque from 1800rpm to 4700rpm. I'd say that's more low end torque than a BMW 2.5 I6, wouldn't you? Jeremy Clarkson (possibly the most critical auto journalist around today) had this to say about the 2.0T - "30mph, 6th gear, footdown, full off. There isn't even any turbo lag. This engine is an absolute peach."

98AccordEx

Honda's engineers are remarkable and will have no problem smoothing out turbo lag. HMC is first and foremost an engine company and they know engines. Look at what they have done in the past five years:
HMC needed a diesel for Europe - instead of outsourcing Honda produces one of the most powerful diesels and of course it runs cleaner than expected.
Honda wanted a hybrid to appeal to more than just econo car buyers - they create the Accord Hybrid that performs better than the V6.
Honda saw the fuel ecomomy of SUVs and minivans as a growing concern - they develop Variable Cylinder Management for their V6s.

Have a little faith, they have tackled every engine problem so far Turbo lag shouldn't be too hard for them.

dom

We're discussing this as if its a certainty Honda will be Turboing the K24

The 3.0L from the Accord would be far more pratical and probly cheaper to implement for this application. And considering its almost a certainty that the next CR-V will be getting a V6 (6 in the RAV has been confirmed) I'd say the RDX will have a V6 as well

Precision Crafted

IMO if Honda is perparing for a US Turbo, it may be a TSX engine. Acura did fairly well with it's Type-S models. Honda as we all know take forever and a day to get into markets. Look how long it took for a minivan and the first one was small. Look at how long it took for a SUV and they were badge engineered. Honda may be looking at a performance line up. A-Spec is nice but no pwr increase so to me it is some what pointless.

I see the RDX with a V6 not the new 2.4T

donnydjr

As someone said above, HMC could build the ultimate turbo engine if they want to... Anyone remember what they did with turbo charged engines in F1, way back in 1988?

Spreading the V6 around would obviously be the cheapest solution, but Honda is not Nissan (thankfully). If a 2.4L Turbo can provide the power and better fuel efficiency vs. a V6, especially to differentiate the RDX for their upscale Acura line vs. competitors, they may just do it.

I'd rather see IMA in the vehicle, but it sounds like that's not going to happen.

BTW, my mother and sister have yet to complain about only having a 4-cyl in their CR-V and Element SUVs, respectively. While a V6 would be nice, not sure the demographics or the price of fuel is demanding one in these vehicles.

Precision Crafted

Honda's V6 are some of the most fuel efficient out there. The next CRV may just get a V6 due to the fact the RAV4 is getting one according to rumors and rumor has it Toyota made that choice once they heard the CRV was getting one.

The RDX could and most likely would do well with a 2.4t. As it stands, Honda has the 3.0, 3.2, 3.5, 3.5 VCM, and 3.5 1/2 ton applications. Nissan on the other had spreads their 3.5 around all over the place. Now Honda's engines are somewhat related but not too closely.

I'm sure Honda has studied the market so it believes it knows what it is doing. Although the first Ody NEEDED a V6. But a turbo would do well I'd say if the load was light. Now If you loaded up some gear, some friends and pulled a Honda jet ski the turbo may have to work harder and fuel mileage may then suffer.

donnydjr

Agreed

Comment and Questioni:
1) Don't forget the 3.0 IMA application (Accord Hybrid).

2) Wouldn't VCM improve fuel economy no matter how big the vehicle is, so wouldn't VCM be easily adaptable to any Honda V6? (other than the Ridgeline - towing capacity?) If so, than why not add VCM to CR-V with a V6, as well as the Accord, TL, MD-X, RD-X?

98AccordEx

Read or heard recently that the Ridgeline did not receive VCM because the combination of weight and drag coefficient is too high requires too much power for cruising, limiting the vehicles ability to use just the 3 cylinders. Whereas the Ody is more aerodynamic and weighs less thus it can actually maintain speed on the VCM reduced engine power. It will be interesting to see if the 2006 Pilot or MDX gets VCM??

The RDX and CRV will definitely weigh less but if they have less powerful engines (3.0 V6 has 212 TRQ) than it may have the same problem at cruising speed.

As for cars, I would think Accord V6 will get VCM but Acura is a performance oriented car and may forego it.

Precision Crafted

I forgot that the Accord Hybrid also has VCM for its 3.0. Yes, the Pilot will be getting VCM as I believe it was stated around the time the RDX was shown.

TMQ

I wonder how much feedback does Honda get on the engine choice? Does it have anything to do with marketing, or it's mostly engineering driven? A lot of products being developed like software gets very quick user feedback. If consumer voice has any impact on their decision, maybe someone from Honda is surfing these websites?

Anyhow, let's hope that RDX will be a hit with awesome engine, transmission, and SHAWD. Don't let it be just another car - ok hp/tq with cheaper price than the compeition. Let it be the Benchmark for all small luxury performance SUVs.

What does "RDX" mean anyway??

donnydjr

It will be interesting to see if the 2006 Pilot or MDX gets VCM??


Isn't the MD-X new for MY2007? I thought I read that somewhere. If true, maybe VCM then, or if the MD-X is moving further upmarket as the surveys I've been responding to from Honda suggest, could IMA or SH-AWD be in the works?

Also, I think Mr. Fukui said VCM will be in the 2006 Pilot duriing his speech in Detroit.

riontegra

iTrader: (2)

Looks like it will have a brand new V6. Remains to be seen what displacement it will have, but if I had to guess it probably would be a 3.0 or 3.2.

"Acura showed a concept 5-door crossover/SUV. The 5-passenger RD-X is smaller than the 7-passenger Acura MDX and is expected to appeal to younger buyers and families with one or two children.

Due as a production model in summer 2006 with a new 6-cylinder engine and all-wheel drive, the RD-X is expected to help fill a gap in Acura's lineup where its only SUV is the MDX, which has a 2005 manufacturer's suggested retail price of nearly $37,000. Notice the RD-X styling. It's sleek, balanced, and there are no weird, distracting bulges or styling lines. "

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....e&pos=EditLead

taeoug

"Acura showed a concept 5-door crossover/SUV. The 5-passenger RD-X is smaller than the 7-passenger Acura MDX and is expected to appeal to younger buyers and families with one or two children.

Due as a production model in summer 2006 with a new 6-cylinder engine and all-wheel drive, the RD-X is expected to help fill a gap in Acura's lineup where its only SUV is the MDX, which has a 2005 manufacturer's suggested retail price of nearly $37,000. Notice the RD-X styling. It's sleek, balanced, and there are no weird, distracting bulges or styling lines. "


Finally some concrete information on the RDX release date and that it will have a six. Now only if I could wait that long. May have to buy a used 02 or 03 TL and then trade up again when the RDX is going to be released. Anyone interested in buying a 99 CL with 75000 miles??

provench

Unfortunately ... I think we all have reason to be skeptical for MSN Autos "breaking" news on the engine being 100% a new V6. I have my doubts on this one (unless they get lucky).

taeoug

Oh well, here we go again Guess I can still hope.

SpartanTodd

Just picked up MPH magazine. Apparently one of their writers has an insider with Mazda. Apparently, Mazda is looking to use a 2.3 liter turbo, generating 250hp. The engine and awd will apparently come from the Mazdaspeed 6. What does everyone think of this? Could the RDX end up with a Turbo after all. The same magazine mentions that the RDX "should" end up with one of Honda's V-6's but, needless to say it was pretty vague to say the least. They were pretty confident on their info concerning the Mazda though....Interesting. I would find it difficult for Acura to be outdone by Mazda at 250hp and BMW (x3) estimating 225 hp for the 2.5 liter and 250+hp for the 3.0 liter. So who is the RDX competing with?

AcuraFan

I think the RDX will most likely be compared to the X3...but who's to say they have to copy anyone? I think Acura would do just fine making their own little niche.

taeoug

Very unlikely. I cannot say Mazda's MX crossover concept is ugly but hopefully Acura will realize that they cannot release something subpar so the RDX should have something comparable without any turbos or S/C. (Would not mind seeing one though).

Professor Gascan

At this point, I don't think there's much doubt that the RDX will come with a V6. Which V6 with how much output is the real question. I think (hope) that Honda is smart enough to know that if a V6 will fit, there should be one in there. I honestly believe that the TSX chassis is not able to accept a V6, hence, all the I4 Turbo rumors.