greggandrews

I have noticed several fellow Canadians posting their pricing with the vehicle description they purchased and I have seen primarily MSRP or close to it. I find it hard to believe that people are not able to bargain better pricing - closer to dealer invoice.

Perhaps you need to be using a broker who can get fleet pricing. I am the first to understand that trying to get dealer invoice numbers has been a bit of a black art in Canada until recently while this information is readily available in the USA on the Web - for free even. In Canada, it seems to be some sort of state secret.

But there are dealers who will work with people who are educated and prepared and want to get the same kind of deals our American brethern get.

I have done a lot of checking into what is involved in buying vehicles state-side and bringing them into Ontario. This is not a bad option for many and I have an advantage in that I work a lot in the US and may be about to buy a car here and then use it here instead of a rental. Then, when I drive the used car home later, it will attract much less tax at oour terrible 14% rate.

Canadians are paying large premiums on cars - way over the exchange rate. We are also denied many choices in colors and interiors and option packages that Americans get. And this is really frustrating at times when you know the vehicles are the same except for some metric instrumentation and they come down the same assembly line. Like why deny Canadian purchasers the choice of EITHER interior in the RDX? But, no, we have little choice. And this is not a knock on Honda/Acura - all mfr's are the same.

If Canadians are finding and using these American-based internet sites, we should also have the "smarts" to beat the Canadian system and obtain better pricing.

For example, I have not seen any Canadian post anything about dealer invoice prices for RDX. Does anyone out there realize what these are?

RDX Base = 37720 (+Freight+AC+Gas Guzzler) = 3280 under MSRP (92%)
RDX Tech = 41400 (+Freight+AC+Gas Guzzler) = 3600 under MSRP


I also recognize that if sales are dramatically higher in Canada than seems to be the recent situation in the US, then of course dealers won't be as loose. But damn it, we have to fight for better pricing and more open market. Hope we'll see more success stories for Canadians.

Jackygor

Canadians are always get SHAFTED in terms of buying cars. We pay freakin like 40% more when compared to the US. I went to a local dealership, and they would not budge on the MSRP. I am pretty frustrated as HOW WE HAVE TO PAY SO MUCH! RDX tech package + tax is almost freaken 60k canadian! thats like what 55k USD? 55k you can freaken buy a Cayman S! or a second hand Z06! AHHH, I M GOING CRAZY!

mvwood

yeah. i did my research and knew invoice before going in, and I did try to deal with a fleet lease company and EVEN THEY were not getting more than 1k off MSRP (I ended up with 1200, better money factor, better residual, and a walk-away lease which the fleet co wouldn't offer).

But even then best I could do was 1200 off MSRP for a base. That's the problem when the dealership has no cars in stock and demand seems quite comparable to supply.

Bostonbr77

I think the main problem with getting competative pricing in Canada is supply. Saskatoon only gets in 1 RDX at a time, if it's not the model or color that you want, you are placed on a wait list. Edmonton and Calgary have better selection, but they move fast and they don't want to budge. When I see posts telling of dealers in the States with 30 or 40 RDX's on location, it's no wonder that there are better deals to be made. The other thing that sucks with the Canadian deal is that our tech package doesn't come with built in XM or the live traffic updates...sucks to be us in the "great white north"! Thank goodness we have the #1 Junior hockey team in the world for the last 3 years.

Rusty

acurardx

Yes, we pay more and get less. But what can we do ? For Honda/Acura, we can't even buy from US even if you can ignore non-metric odometer as Honda/Acura voids the warranty once you ship across the border..............

Yes, supply is the big issue. When we have only 4-5 Acura dealers in GTA and each have less than 7 in stock with a long waiting list and preorder. How much bargaining power do we have ?

acurardx

Exactly, the prices most canadians bought a SUV can pretty much buy a Cayanne in US !!! The exchange rate they use for RDX (1.24) is considered "very reasonable" as comparing to other models and other brands. Check out the FX.

In US, 35K can get a pretty decent car. In Canada, 30 grands can even get a fully loaded CRV/Camry.

I guess that's why lot of canadians are now trying to import cars from US.

dom

Actually, the invoice prices have been in the "Pricing & General Specs" sticky at the top of this page for quite some time. But thanks for posting them again.

OakvilleRDX

Having purchased my RDX at MSRP, and then reading about the big discounts that US buyers get, I was feeling peeved. Now having read that my Canadian compatriats are all paying through the nose, at least I feel some relief that I am not alone in my big price.

mvwood

yeah, the only screwing you got was a collective screwing.

It is the Canadian way, after all.

Skeandhu

The Canadian way is to smile and say "Thank you, it's been a pleasure." after getting collectively screwed. C'est la vie I guess...

Rorie

It is about supply. I have not seen a lot of RDX's at the dealership or on the road. Only place I ever saw a bunch of RDX's was at Markham Acura.

Also, certain dealerships sell more than others. Downtown Acura whom I bought my RDX off of moves more of them because they are in the city and the RDX is a bit more practical than having an MDX. Where as a dealership in the burbs may move more MDX's.

As I said, I paid MSRP, but got a deal on the options I wanted. I was happy with that. I got no wiggle room from any dealership other than Downtown Acura. They at least have the volume and the willingness to try. I would deal with them again in a heartbeat.

Rorie

PS - if you import a car, and have to change over to Canadian specs I am told the cost is about $2500. I have never done it but had a friend bring in a Porsche 911 and it cost him that at some place that converts cars over. I was surprised how much it was. I also am not sure how the warranty transfers from the US to Canada.

perfchris

It does not cost thousands to convert a US RDX to a Candian spec RDX.

The car our compatriots in the US are buying for thousands less is basically the SAME car that is sold in Canada.

The only minor differences as noted above are the mph instead of the Km/h being emphasized, XM satellite radio and real time traffic.

According to riv.ca, which is the agency that Transport Canada has contracted to coordinate the import process for Canadians, the only fee you need to pay is 250 dollars in order to get the car inspected at a Canadian Tire, a formality because the car is new, has daytime running lights and the speedo has the km/h.

Here are the steps to buy a car in the US and import it into Canada.

1-Consult riv.ca and make sure your car is importable.
2-If yes, negotiate your price and options with a dealer in the US willing to sell a car to you. Get the VIN number.
3- Get insurance from a Canadian insurer, you need to supply a VIN number.
4-Get a loan from Canada and/or wire the funds to the dealer in the US when you are picking up the car.
5-You will need the MSO (manufacturer statement of origin) and title sent to the border (american side) you intend to cross 3 business days before. This is to make sure you are not importing a stolen vehicle. The riv site has a list of borders that process these imports (not all border crossings do this)
6-Pick up the car with temporary plate supplied by dealer (low cost tag that is good for a minimum of a couple of days - to a month) Have insurance papers with you ! You can drive around with this in the US and Canada !
7-This MSO and title get stamped by the American side, then on to the Canadian side of the border where you pay GST on the American value of the car times the exchange rate. You also pay a riv fee for the inspection fee at Canadian Tire. You have a limited time after this to get to a Canadian Tire.
8- Get bilingual stickers for the safety stickers found in the cabin from your Acura dealer in Canada.
9- Have the car inspected :daytime running lights, km/h on the speedo and French safety stickers for airbags. There is NO duty as the car is made in the US. Any car that is made in the US or Canada and I believe in Mexico, according to NAFTA is duty free.
10- Have the car registered in the province you live. You will pay PST on the US value times the exchange rate.

Enjoy your car ! You have just saved anywhere between 20-30 % vs Canadian prices !

Fishbulb

As I mentioned earlier, I paid about 800 over invoice on a base, in the GTA area. Still much higher than U.S. pricing, but better than the initial "MSRP or take a hike" discussions I had intially with the dealers.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

perfchris, what about the factory warranty?

greggandrews

perfchris

Thanks for posting all that information. Glad you thought of it before me (I was already familiar with the process and RIV, having looked into it a couple of years ago). You are correct in that it is not all that bad a process. If careful about vehicle selection and getting something new, chances are almost no changes are required except for the stupid bilingual stickers. Just check it all out BEFORE you get excited and buy.

I am going to be calling them to clarify a couple of things for my situation as I plan to use the vehicle for a while in the USA since I am working there on contract right now. I expect to be paying less tax on import since it will be a used vehicle.

I do not dispute the experience of Rorie's friend with the Porsche, but most mainstream vehicles should not pose any big problem, except perhaps an electronic chip to activate daytime running lights. Remember (this is for others) that these vehicles are built almost identically for the two markets and several are built in Canadian plants. The mfr's are going to make it easy to have cars comply with both US and Canada reg's.

If you live near a significant border town (we are lucky in Ontario), you might find a deal if you shop the car in ON and on internet and then just have to order from a US dealer.

greggandrews

Well, I guess I had better check into that - and I will report back here. Two years ago when I almost bought an Odyssey in Ohio where I was just finishing a contract, it was not an issue as I recall. I don't know why Acura would be any different.

It does not seem fair at least in the case of someone buying a car in their home country and then moves or is transferred business-wise across the border and loses warranty on owned vehicles.

greggandrews

OK, I called Acura Customer Service first and was told the warranty is not honored. Upon pressing for reason(s), the agent informed me her information was that it was because of different emission standards. (I am not aware there is any real difference there or the vehicle would be inadmissable). When I pressed her further with an example such as a NAVI failure which would have nothing to do with emissions, she said it would be up to dealer discretion. It is also necessary to get a recall clearance from Acura (this is also part of the import rqmt) and provide them with license and registration data and then you are eligible for any and all future recalls (and presumably TSB's).

I then contacted Acura Care which is the extended warranty. I confirmed what I had read on a website - these plans are good in either US or Canada. (You buy the car and the warranty in the US in my example). So then I asked the $64 question. If I bring a newish car into Ontario - prior to mfr warranty expiring, am I covered if something goes wrong and Acura won't cover it? The answer was 'no', because the mfr warranty takes precedence and theirs only kicks in when it expires on time or miles. Buying the extendeds up-front just locks you in to the new vehicle plan pricing and gets you loaner cars.

So - at least for Honda/Acura - the above posting is correct in that you could lose warranty coverage depending on what goes wrong and the mood of a local Canadian dealer.

This is maybe more of a risk taking a brand spanking new vehicle right across after purchasing because any factroy defects may be difficult to resolve for free. But if have it for a period of time in the US before going to Canada should expose that stuff. Then it is down to how reliable you think the vehicle and mfr are and how much chance you think something major will go wrong.

I suppose one could consider the amount saved in purchase could be used as personal hedge funds against any unforeseen "event".

So, it is either take a risk or bend over and prepare to get screwed as has been mentioned elsewhere on this website.


One other note. My Ontario insurance company would cover a purchased vehicle if it was basically being driven from the dealer to Ontario in short order. For my plans to use the car in the US for a while, I need to buy coverage here for whatever period I need.

Jackygor

I guess we canucks just have to get used to getting shafted!

greggandrews

UPDATE on warranty.

I called Acura CANADIAN Customer service and asked the rep there some warranty questions. He said if someone just went across to the US and bought a vehicle due to options choices or pricing and then registered it in Ontario for example, the warranty is voided. (I did not argue with him about that, but it seems a tactic to screw the buying public and protect the high Canadian pricing).

However, if the vehicle was registered in the USA first and then brought to Ontario later, the process would be this. First time bringing vehicle into an Ontario dealership for work, they make an inquiry to Acura America (or Honda) via district sales office and verify the VIN and warranty information. In future, that information has then been captured in the dealer's service dept computers and no further issues should occur. (I would retain any copies of US registration, etc., if needed but he did not say anything about it).

So, this works with my plan of buying a car and using it in the US first before bringing it home - but I need to buy insurance here first and then add it to my Canadian policy later. That is no big deal as you have to pay someone for insurance in any case.

Now I just have to find out if I can actually buy insurance as a non-citizen.

By now, I am sure many are wondering if it is worth all the effort, but I want to know all the facts first before I decide.

RDX with Tech at dealer invoice in USA is $34K USD before taxes. That is $40K CAD.
RDX with Tech at dealer invoice + $750 min is $47.3 CAD, so there is easily over $7000CAD at stake here.

dom

PM moderator derrick. He just bought a TSX in the US and brought it back into Canada so he knows whats required. Or have a look at this thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/imported-my-2007-tsx-today-354551/

Rorie

Thanks for the info. I was surprised at the $2500 number as well. It was third hand info and I had heard much lower numbers in the past.

Rorie

Rorie

I have been told that the Techs are selling better, and you can get a much better deal on a non-tech because they are not moving fast. Well done.

Rorie

Fishbulb

You'll need a U.S. address to register the car, no?

If it was me, I'd wait for the 08's, just to be sure most of the bugs are worked out, and import one for the cost savings, and take my chances on the warranty. The $7K + saved buys a lot of private repairs, if needed.

Also, you could look into the possibility of buying a 3rd party warranty, if one exists up here.

mando

Great information, seems ridiculous about the warranty thing. We do get bent for sure.. I have to say the salesman didn't know what to say when I brought up the invoice price.. justa stunned look.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

greggandrews, thanks for all the information. In the future I will definitely consider buying a car for the US. I guess the money that I save is more than enough to pay for problems with the car.

greggandrews

OOOOOOPPPSSSSS. Surprised no one caught me. I was talking to my wife, updating her on info, and stopped in mid-sentence. $7000 just seemed waaay too much.

OK, this is correct information:


RDX with Tech at dealer invoice in USA is $34K USD before taxes. That is $40K CAD using a 18% exchange rate.

RDX with Tech at dealer invoice in Canada + $800+ is $44K CAD let's say, so there is easily $4000CAD at stake here.


Then it is up to individual whether you want to figure more savings by paying first a 5% or less state tax and later paying Canadian taxes on lower valued vehicle due to natural depreciation if you are able to drive it around in the US for a while.

(Someone asked about residency. I have a residence here as I rent an apartment instead of using hotels. I am not a US resident, but I do have an address. Also, my brother is a citizen now if I really need some extra help with another address. I also have bank accounts here at US-based institutions. And, because of my activities and history here, I have credit ratings).

My inquiries thus far do not preclude me from registering a car here. I am going to inquire at the DMV next (the horse's mouth so to speak) and also into insurance. I am very busy at client these days so this is all taking time, but I will report here my findings on DMV and insurance as a Canadian citizen working and living temporarily in the USA.

Fishbulb

You're making the assumption that both the Canadian dealers and the U.S. dealers will sell you a tech for invoice. While the latter is close to being true, the Canadian dealers will sell closer to MSRP.

You can safely add another 2K to your figures.

Jackygor

+1.

zircon

guys, wake up. If you bring the car to Canada, you get a temp plate in the USA and pay no tax. When you bring it to Canada, you will pay 100 air tax, ~200 RIV fee, 6% gst at the border. No duty since it is USA built. Then you go to your license bureau and pay applicable prov. tax (assuming it meets child restraint law, daytime runners and stronger bumper rules). However, if you bring a new honda or acura across, the pinheads in Canada will cancel your warrenty in both countries. Lexus/Toyo got sued for this and caved in, but the Honda mafia persists in screwing Canadians.

I have a proposition for you to consider that may or may not be acceptable. Read and check out the new 2007 Mitsu Outlander (MSN, Yahoo, Edmunds). It is either better looking (my opinion) than RDX or a tall family wagon. In the states, it comes loaded - really loaded - for 30K. Online reviewers have compared its handling to the RDX. I went to a mitsu dealer tonight and tried to get a brochure, but they only had a few and were out of them. The only real criticism of it in the USA is that door trim is hard plastic and some dash stuff is cheap. So are the headliners. But is has >200HP 3L V6, >200lbs torque, nav, hard disk, wicked stereo, HID (don't know about Canada - was wasn't in the literature they gave me), LED tails, 4WD switch with 3 modes (including just front WD), soft leather, 5-7 seats, sunroof, 10 yr warranty (if they survive), nice 18 rims, passcard keyless entry, paddle shifters, etc., etc. A great deal IMO. My wife has a CRV (the one we are looking to replace) and I love my tsx. But these bastards want 40% more for loaded CRV in Canada than USA, and lots more for RDX too. Let them eat cake - I am leaving the brand. Will check Outander at Detroit auto show next week. Honda blows. Plus, they don't know how to make cars nice looking, new accord coupe excepted.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think for 30k, I would go with the rav4 or cx7. They both offer more power and I think the rav4 is more reliable. Years ago, Mitsubishi was famous for not admitting the problems in their cars.

greggandrews

Sorry, but I did not assume Dealer Invoice for Canada. I bumped up the number for a premium over that of $800 - $900. I mentioned that I deal with a broker and buy my vehicles thru Fleet Managers so the markups are reasonable considering the mfr and model - at least for Ontario market. It won't be $2K more. I have bought several vehicles this way and it is the only way to go here in my mind. If you are in the GTA, I can refer you to him privately but I am not going to post his name or email on this forum.

greggandrews

Zircon,

Yes, you are generally correct regarding picking up new car and bringing it right home to Canada. As I have carefully described in my postings, I am looking at the situation where the vehicle remains in the US, is registered, plated and driven there for a period prior to returning to Canada. Then the tax treatment is different. I am still in the midst of my research due to extremely busy at work, so I will post more information on that when I get it. It may be of help or interest to others or give pause for thought.

I do agree with your anger towards Honda Canada and Honda America on the warranty matter. I think it is small of them to attempt this, but I don't have the time or bucks to sue them over it either. There is no justification for it other than to protect their usurious pricing practice. But remember they are not alone in that - my general experience has been that vehicles have always been better priced with more choice in the US - across multiple mfr's.

And this was true even when we had worse exchange rates. I think only when we had the dollar way low in the 60's or 70 cents was it unattractive. Then you had Americans coming to Ontario to buy cars.

I'll reserve comment on your opinion of the Mitsubishi vehicle. That company is just not in my consideration.

zircon

If you keep it there, then you are, of course, going to have to pay state taxes. You do have to be careful because if you live on the border and license it in the USA, Rev Can will nail you if you use it for anything other than business trips into Canada. Someone needs to sue Honda, just like Toyota was and then they will back down. Till then, they actually post warnings on their web site telling you they will invalidate you warrenty if you do a cross-border new purchase. One option is to buy a used one in the states - perhaps a company car - then your warranty remains good if you bring it across. Oddly, Honda lowered their prices in S. Africa after the rand rose - why not in Canada?

I have had 1 Mitsu before and had no problems with it over 220km before we replaced it. This particular car is imported from Japan and has been compared in 2 car reviews to the rdx. It also gets better gas mileage than rdx, on nonpremium fuel. 0-60 is supposed about 8-8.5 (clearly slower than rdx). So while I respect your opinion, I do think hat this will definitely steal sales from CRV, RAV, CX7 and perhaps rdx. we shall see.

Fishbulb

I enjoyed the tirade about Honda Canada's markup over the exchange rate, but what indication do you have that Mitsubishi won't be doing the same thing?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The new Outlander looks very promising indeed. I think it's based on the Lancer platform? I am not sure about that. its rear end styling does sort of resemble the Lancer though, IMO. Anyways, I think that if the Outlander produces less power and torque, then it should get better gas mileage (Rav4 is an exception though). I can see that the Outlander is capable of stealing sales from CRV, RAV4, CX7, but I really think it's stretching a bit to say it can steal sales from RDX. Afterall, when people buy a car like the RDX, they are mostly people who want an alternative to a BMW X3, or people who want a premium brand without paying the price of a BMW. The Outlander, like the CX7 and some others, are targeted for customers that want the most out of their dollars.

greggandrews

I spoke to MA RMV today and there is no problem registering a vehicle I purchase in the state of MA. They will recognize an Ontario license and as long as I can obtian insurance policy, no issue at all. If I was staying in MA for min 30 days solid, I would need to get a MA driver's license, but since I fly in and out, that is not necessary. (The longest I stay is 10-11 days if I don't go home every weekend).

I have spoken to one insurance company on Friday - one that sells insurance to my clients employees via payroll deduction - and they have no problem insuring me and gave me a preliminary quote pending me providing a driving record report from Ontario.

There is one little hitch. MA RMV can research and produce a 6-year driving history for people in that state. So if you are clean for past 6 years of any moving violations or convictions, you get a top rating. I know the standard Ontario report is 3 years - and in fact any tickets we have drop off after three years. My record is clean, but I will have to call the Ministry of Transport next week and see if they do have any additional history for an extra fee that you cannot order online or at a kiosk.

So it seems all the ducks are in a row:

• I can buy an RDX in MA or RI and register it in MA as an Ontario driver and as someone living in MA.

• I can get a vehicle insured in MA by at least one company (I need to get a couple of quotes for comparison, but Liberty is giving me the client employee discount which is nice of them).

• I will of course pay 5% MA State Tax on registration like anyone else there and plate it with MA plates. (This is opposed to 14% on a higher purchase price in Ontario).

• I can take the car to Canada with documentation using our importation system. I will pay GST on reduced value at time of crossing. I will pay reduced ON tax at time of crossing. I save even more if the vehicle is in US for 1 year before I bring it over.

• Vehicle needs no modifications for Canada/Ontario.

• My warranty will be okay because the vehicle was originally purchased by me and will be registered in the US for a period of time before coming to Canada. (Honda is trying to stop the cross-border shopping and we have discussed that unfairness at length).

• I believe I am settled in on Carbon Bronze/Taupe for color. (Second choice is probably Carbon Bronze/Black and then Silver/Black).

• Maybe I can pull this all of before end of January and get a deal below invoice!!

Fishbulb

Well, good luck. Interesting information, but not very relevant to the majority of Canadians that do not work in the U.S. or have residence there, or the ability or will to keep/store a car for months in the U.S. instead of driving it and enjoying it in Canada.

greggandrews

Fishbulb, you are correct. And there is lots of information here for the majority who might just want to cross over, buy a car and then import it into Canada. And it is well-documented that Honda/Acura will take the position that in that case the warranty is null and void.

If that remains the case, people either have to consider the dollars saved their hedge fund against any warranty issues, or simply suck it up and pay the over-priced Canadian sticker, or let their feet do the walking to another mfr vehicle who will honor warranties in both countries.

IMO, Acura/Honda have very reliable vehicles and I just might be prepared to risk a warranty issue for 1000's in savings. But it comes down to each person's individual priorities and tastes, etc. At least we have a body of information to go on, things to think about and take care of, etc. I have found people's comments and questions to be helpful and I hope the information here is helpful.

Who knows? Maybe more people being aware of overly high pricing in Canada, poor treatment with regards to warranty, etc, may eventually get Honda/Acura to change their position.

Fishbulb

There's really no secret to it, and not a particularly difficult paperwork process. The RIV website is very comprehensive in terms of what is involved.

The majority of Canadians simply have to ask themselves - "do it want a Honda warranty, or do I want $6000 dollars and a minor headache in terms of the time a trouble of the import process. Period.

Personally, if the car wasn't in its model year, I'd have taken the minor headache and the cash, and imported one from Buffalo.

Fishbulb

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully behind your motives for import. I honestly hope you go that route; that's the only way Honda, Toyota, and many other imports will change their pricing/warranty policies. Money talks, especially when it walks somewhere else for the sale.

I just wanted to reiterate that the majority of the considerations that you're updating us with are not options for the majority of Canadians. There's a lot of information in your posts, but its important for those reading passively to be aware of the prerequisites.