RedX

When I turn left and right, the front wheels make a loud fast clicking noise. Im thinking its the U joints or whatever there called, am I right? how much is this going to cost me at the shop?

saiko_cl_duck

check to see if your fender lining is coming off first, or something is coming in contact with your wheels prior to bringing in a shop.

Couldn't really give a price on a fix. Is this a full turn left/right or just slight turning?

SwervinCL

Its your axles.. They are gone.. You need to replace both your axles.. Its actually the CV joint, but you need to replace your axles to fix the problem. They are about 70-90 a pop + labor.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

CV Joints, you need to replace both axles

RedX

Yeah I thought it was the CV joints too. I did check to see if anything is rubbing but I didnt see anything. It doesnt matter how far you turn the wheel, it still clicks. What will happen when they break all together?

SwervinCL

They probably won't just break like you think. They would probably seize from heat, then break.. So i'm sure I dont' have to tell you the consequences of them seizing while your doing 80 down the freeway.

PimpCL23

change em ASAP!

u dont want those things to give out at a time of emergency!

RedX

Yikes, wish I had the money to fix them... ill get the fixed as soon as I can but it could be a few months and they have been clicking for about a year now.

SwervinCL

Jtbecool

Just feel the boot on the cv joint, if your hand is covered in black goo then it's your axle. My passenger side one is busted, it started clicking this week.

RedX

yeah I had an old caddy that had bad cv joints, motor blew before they went out though lol.

ajtcl

When my Teg had this problem, it cost me $99 per axel and about $30 in labor from my mechanic friend. So, depending on where you go, they shouldn't be too expensive. Unless, you wait too long and do additional damage or go to the Stealership.

Get 'em fixed soon.
Good luck.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Click Click Boom!

ajtcl

I found some notes for you...

CV JOINT NOTES

Editor: Jan Summary

Here is a collection of notes on replacing CV Joints and boots. Feel free to edit it into a nice set of procedures and hints. From: borowski@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Don T. Borowski) Subject: Re: R&R cv joints
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 16:17:11 GMT

>In regards to the inner joint, is it really necesarry to use a >hydraulic press to tension the cv joint against the concave washer >when installing it back on the driveshaft? Anyone have any tips >on how to do this without a press? I have thought of making a >jig using woodworking pipe clamps to do this. Any ideas?

I used this procedure one the inner CV joints. To get it off, clamp the drive shaft in a vice. Drive the circlip out of the groove on the shaft with a screwdriver and hammer. Now, push the CV joint boot back away from the CV joint. Open the jaws of the vice just wide enough to clear drive shaft. Set the CV joint on the top of the jaws, and let the shaft hang down through the jaws. This will support the center (ball hub) of the CV joint. Now find a socket with an outer diameter small enough to pass through the center of the CV joint. Use this socket and a hammer to drive out the shaft.

To reinstall the CV joint, clamp the shaft firmly in the vice with the CV joint end sticking up. Install the dished washer, and then set the CV joint on the shaft. Find a socket with a diameter large enough to contact the ball hub well. The socket you used to remove the outer CV joint wheel nut will do. Drive the CV joint on as far as you can get it. Now, take the circlip and slid it down the shaft as far as possible. Find a socket with an inner diameter just large enough to clear the shaft. Place this socket so that it contacts the circlip, right at the gap. Now drive both the circlip and the ball hub onto the shaft. You should be able to get one edge of the circlip to drop into the groove on the shaft. When you do, you can then use a screwdriver and hammer to drive the rest of the circlip into the groove, starting at the point where the circlip is already in the groove.

One note. If all you want to do is clean and repack the inner CV joint, you can easily do this by tilting the outer ring of the CV joint and remove the balls. The ball hub will be left on the shaft, and the outer ring and balls will come free. Remove and install the balls from both the inner and outer sides.

From rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu Mon Dec 5 18:53:08 1988 Return-Path: <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 88 21:28:50 EST
From: "Richard J. Auletta" <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> Message-Id: <8812060228.AA18062@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> To: jan%lipari.usc.edu@oberon.usc.edu
Subject: Re: Axle nuts, CVs and such
Cc: rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
Status: RO This is not a hard job if you have the right tools. This includes a 3/4 drive socket and an appropriate sized rachet or breaker bar. You probably can rent the breaker bar at a rental place. The socket with the 3/4 drive should be available at SEARS? but I picked up mine at a place that sells steel and iron working equipment! I don't feel I could get one off with either a 12pt or 6pt 1/2 socket. (I also have a short 6 inch 3/4 extension I use to clear the wheels as at this point the car is still resting firmly on the ground.)

For torqueing the nut when you are all done you need a great big torque wrench, but a 1/2 drive will work just fine. These wrenches are pretty common amoung VW types as it is required for doing the rear wheels on bugs. Maybe a rental shop or have a retired friend who use to fix bugs for a living.

As far as the clamps go your kit should include new ones! The grease should be supplied too! So just cut the old clamps off. To put the new ones on get them tight and the squeeze the little square flat to tighten them up real good. I used the wire cutter tip on a pair of cheap spade lug crimp /bolt cutter tool. A spare couple of clamps might not be a bad idea as I have had them slip as you crimp them up. Hose clamps are kinda heavy, they might unbalance the axle under hard accleration.

___
| |
squeeze -> | | <- squeeze
_____| |_____ You need a good set of split ring pliers as some of the rings are way down there and some hammers for driving the CV joints on and off the axle (see you workshop manual for details). You have to look for the suckers as they will be hiding in all that black (gray) grease. Rubber mallet and a wooden block help too. For the inner CV joint you need to support it and press or drive out the shaft. It may be possible to slide the new boot down the axle with removing it. For cleaning the CV joint you really can't beat a can of gas (yes I know very dangerous) to soak them in and then spray them out with breakclean or CV joint cleaner. Then pack them full with the grease, work it in good. Fill the sucker up real good. Actually you can just wipe them clean and add more grease if you have caught them in time!

Some details are that you have to get the car high off the ground and taking the wheels off are the only way I have ever done it. The 12 point bolts are no sweat. Sears [used to, see faq] sells the socket, it quite common in German cars. I have mine left over from my Opel days. Here on small torque wrench is what is needed. Someone to turn the axle makes it go alot faster. The kit should include replacement bolts but if you clean up the existing ones before you take them out you should have a spare set when you are all done. You should be careful when messing with the CV joint as you can jam them if the cages get shifted. I don't think it hurts them or that it they will come flying apart but you never know. It takes some patience to get the joints in and out from under the car but they will come if you fool with the position of the wheels.

If your car was older you would probably notice a bigger improvement but I find that newly pack CV joints seem to deliver more power to the wheels. This is probably due to both less friction but also less tendency for the wheel to lift as opposed to the CV joint "absorbing" the angles.

--Rich
rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu

From rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu Sat Jan 28 19:20:24 1989 Return-Path: <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 89 22:15:50 19
From: "Richard J. Auletta" <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> Message-Id: <8901290315.AA12438@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: CV Joints & Brake Pads
Status: R

Just a short note to describe a recent VW "incident" that might have a
moral and some comments about Repco Metal Masters.

I just got through replacing an outer Constant Velocity Joint (CV) on
a 1979 VW Scirocco. Interestingly the joint took about a 6 months to
fail to the point that it was obviously bad. One night running around
I start getting a loud knock under heavy acceleration in turns and I
first thought that it was bearing knock due to oil starvation. (No I
don't have a baffled oil pan.)

But it went away but came back later as a slight shudder in turns much
like a tire out of balance. It also at times mimiced a warped rotor
but finally in any turn that required a sharp angle a very load noise
and tire thump was noticeable once each rotation with a severe case of
torque steer that had a strong correlation with the thump.

Well jacking the car up revealed that with the a sharp steering angle
I could just barely rotate the tires through a very distinct point of
resistance that would "snap" as the rotation passed through that
point.

Upon pulling the joint I found that a 60 degree piece of the internal
ring that holds the balls had broken off and was stuck inside the boot
plus the ring was cracked through on the other side. I have been told
this is quite unusual though general wear and scoring is common. I
must wonder what the final failure of a CV joint is? Do they ever come
apart? Fail catastrophically?

As I have mentioned before the proper care and feeding of your CV
joints is important. As I discovered several years ago after cleaning,
repacking, and rebooting all four the performance of the car was
markedly improved with a sense that the tires made better contact with
the road (less tire float?) and better steering feel and response. And
once again the difference is quite noticable both at low and high
speeds with once again a total lack of torque steer and a reduction in
"road noise". The moral being if you're not happy with how your VW is
handling up front don't forget you CV joints as a possible culprit in
whatever the problem is, especially if you have a tire balance problem
that won't go away completely with a spin balance. (I'm tempted to
replace the other outer joint for good measure. I assume the inner
joints suffer a lot less stress and tend to have a longer useful
life.)

The total cost including a new boot (no sense not replacing it while
you're at it) was $110.84 from Olympic Autoparts located in Alexan-
dria, Va and a couple of hours lying about. This was for all W.German
parts (CV joint and boot kits) exactly the same as you would get at
the dealer. (Some of the stuff is marked VW!) (Though I have not
called I suspect the dealer cost for this job would easily top $225
for parts and labor.)

By the way I have been running Repco Metal Master for about 6 months
and can recommend then highly. As advertised they don't squeak, dust,
or fade. And they appear not to be either wearing themselves or the
rotors out prematurely. Only one note; when they are ice cold they can
be a little hard. A couple of times I have had to "jump" on my brakes
just after getting going in the morning and I have detected that the
braking is not as phenomenal as usual (it does spoil you!) --Rich Auletta


From rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu Mon Jan 30 16:50:10 1989
Return-Path: <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 89 19:45:54 19
From: "Richard J. Auletta" <rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
Message-Id: <8901310045.AA04132@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: CV Joints
Status: R As to the cost of repair I called a local VW dealer and this is their phone quote for the job I did in two hours:

Boot kit - $20.00
Labor - $88.00
CV Joint - $310.00! (Out of stock!)

My guess with tax and shop supplies the cost would have run about $459.90, a difference of $349.06. You could go out and buy all the necessary tools and still break even even if you just did one joint! And remember the repairshops get parts for less than you when you buy them at a jobber (20% markup for the over the counter trade.)

Heavy-duty CV joints do exist. They are on GTI's and other VW's with increased horsepower. At least that is what I understand. Curiously when I bought the joint the clerk just walked in back and got one without looking it up. Usually indicates they don't come in to many different varieties at least for VW's. I would assume heavy-duty would mean bigger but this joint seemed to have been harden where the balls run but the old joint did not show any selective hardening. Maybe heavy-duty equates to more advanced processing and the joint I have is heavy-duty?

As to grease I just use what comes with the boot kits or CV joint and though the labels tend to be different it sure looks like it all comes from the same company and appears to be the exact same grease. By the way the company that made the joint was Lobro and the joint came with a 53 page German/English repair manual with color pictures all of 3 by 4 inches big. In case you are interested the German for CV joint is Gleichlauffestgelenke.

I have never seen comments about how often CV joints should be "serviced" but I would guess until a boot breaks they should be "ok" until they simply wear out or fail. But I agree running them with a broken boot will accelerate they eventual failure. I was not that happy with the boots I used last time. One boot started to surface crack soon after I installed it. I wish they would sell heavy-duty boots. The inboard boots are very hard to check and assuming you checked them every oil change that might mean running with a bad boot for a month or more!

By the way, before you run out to do your CV joints on another make of car check your shop manual. I understand that at on Honda's and Ford Escorts the job is quite a bit more involved.

--Rich Auletta
rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu
rauletta@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
rauletta@gmuvax.bitnet

Disclaimer by the editor (& presumably the author): These articles should be regarded as opinions and not fact. If any product's name or company is mentioned, no connotation should be taken for its actual quality, value or use. There is NO guarantee any of this information is correct. Neither the authors, editors, or those who maintain these archives take any responsibility for the consequences that may result from applying any of the ideas presented within these articles. Severe damage, injury or loss of life may result from applying the ideas presented.
Furthermore, before implementing any of the ideas, check whether such modifications are allowed in your state, province or country.

All articles may be distributed freely and copied (unless otherwise stated) as long as the original authors or origine are identified if available.

From uunet!uunet!think.com!mips!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!borowski Tue Jun 30 11:29:28 PDT 1992 Article: 6100 of rec.autos.vw
Relay-Version: Unigraphics Division (EDS)
News Server 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com
Path: mdcbbs.com!uunet!uunet!think.com!mips!sdd.hp.com!h p-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!borowski Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: CV Boots, Hints and Advice anyone ?????
Message-ID: <31170040@hpspkla.spk.hp.com>
From: borowski@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Don T. Borowski)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1992 19:25:24 GMT
References: <1992Jun29.095753.11881@tcom.stc.co.uk>
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa. Lines: 50

In rec.autos.vw, sunil@tcom.stc.co.uk (Sunil Nagpal) writes:

>I'm about to change my first CV Boot on my Scirocco this weekend, >It seems pretty straight forward, apart from one minor point which I >was hoping someone could help me on. >
>The Boot is an outer one, and what I was wondering was, do I have to >take off the outer CV joint to put the new boot on, or does it just slide >over somehow ?, also If I do have to take the CV joint off, is it >easier to take off the inner one, and slide the boot on from that end, >or from the outer CV joint end ?

To replace the boot with a regular (not split) boot goes something like this:

1. With wheels on ground, remove hubcap. Remove nut holding CV joint to wheel.
2. Remove bolts which hold inner CV joint to transmission flange (this is probably easiest done with the car up on stands).
3. Push inner end of CV joint up into engine compartment. Pull outer CV joint out of wheel. Note: You may need to remove one of the links in the shift linkage to provide clearance for the inner CV joint in this step.
4. Remove clamps from old boot. Remove outer CV joint. Some CV joints have a clip which must be removed first. Others can be driven off the shaft with a rubber mallet.
5. Put new boot on shaft. Reinstall outer CV joint. Put clamps on boot.
6. Put shaft assembly back in car. Reinstall inner CV joint bolts. Put shift link back into place.
7. Reinstall nut holding outer CV joint to wheel. Torque to 175 ft.-lb.

While you have the shaft out of the car, and the boot off the CV joint, you might want to clean out the CV joint and regrease it (with special CV joint grease). You might want to take the opportunity to regrease the inner one as well. If dirt has gotten into the CV joint, you MUST clean it out and regrease it (that is, if you want it to last more than just a few thousand miles). Donald Borowski WA6OMI Hewlett-Packard, Spokane Division "Angels are able to fly because they take themselves so lightly."

-G.K. Chesterton

From mdcbbs!uunet!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!w upost!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!borowski
Tue Sep 22 08:38:39 PDT 1992
Article: 7471 of rec.autos.vw
Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.1 24/02/92 VAX/VMS V5.5; site mdcbbs.com
Path: mdcbbs!uunet!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!w upost!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!borowski Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: R&R cv joints

In rec.autos.vw, larson@minerva.sws.uiuc.edu (Bob Larson) writes:

>In regards to the inner joint, is it really necesarry to use a >hydraulic press to tension the cv joint against the concave washer >when installing it back on the driveshaft? Anyone have any tips >on how to do this without a press? I have thought of making a >jig using woodworking pipe clamps to do this. Any ideas?

I used this procedure one the inner CV joints. To get it off, clamp the drive shaft in a vice. Drive the circlip out of the groove on the shaft with a screwdriver and hammer. Now, push the CV joint boot back away from the CV joint. Open the jaws of the vice just wide enough to clear drive shaft. Set the CV joint on the top of the jaws, and let the shaft hang down through the jaws. This will support the center (ball hub) of the CV joint. Now find a socket with an outer diameter small enough to pass through the center of the CV joint. Use this socket and a hammer to drive out the shaft.

To reinstall the CV joint, clamp the shaft firmly in the vice with the CV joint end sticking up. Install the dished washer, and then set the CV joint on the shaft. Find a socket with a diameter large enough to contact the ball hub well. The socket you used to remove the outer CV joint wheel nut will do. Drive the CV joint on as far as you can get it. Now, take the circlip and slid it down the shaft as far as possible. Find a socket with an inner diameter just large enough to clear the shaft. Place this socket so that it contacts the circlip, right at the gap. Now drive both the circlip and the ball hub onto the shaft. You should be able to get one edge of the circlip to drop into the groove on the shaft. When you do, you can then use a screwdriver and hammer to drive the rest of the circlip into the groove, starting at the point where the circlip is already in the groove.

One note. If all you want to do is clean and repack the inner CV joint, you can easily do this by tilting the outer ring of the CV joint and remove the balls. The ball hub will be left on the shaft, and the outer ring and balls will come free. Remove and install the balls from both the inner and outer sides.

Donald Borowski WA6OMI Hewlett-Packard, Spokane Division "Angels are able to fly because they take themselves so lightly."

-G.K. Chesterton


From: BBS::UUCP%"uunet!usc.edu!jan%dev7d.mdcbbs.com" 4-SEP-1990 23:36:32.87 To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov
CC:
Subject: CV Joints
To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov

I just did a CV-repack job (both inner & outer) on my 81 S, and I have some questions and comments.

Questions: The grease in both outer joints had somehow "mutated" into from a "toothpaste" consistency to a more fluid consistency like pancake sirup (not maple but the immitation stuff). Any ideas why this happened? My speculation is breakdown due to heat? Does this then mean my outer CV joints are shot as well. They still felt ok... Where did the heat come from? Probably the brake rotors.

If you have the right tools, the job is pretty simple. Getting the inner CVJ back on to the shaft was a bit of a problem because you need to apply pressure to get the circlip in place. The pressure is needed to compress the convex dished washer on the other side of the joint. Hammer didn't work (yeah, I know, you're not supposed to, but just look at the size of the hammer VW uses...) so I rigged something up with a chain, my vise, my hub puller and the 30 mm socket to compress that washer. I'll draw you a pic sometime.

One of my inner CVJ was shot (didn't move smoothly through all its motions) and was replaced. VWs price: ca. US$ 130, Engine Compartment (Redondo Beach -- ask for Dirk) & Wolf Sport: about US$55 made by Loebrow, apparently the same mfger VW uses.

Use anti-seize compound on the splines a bolts to make your easier next time.

According to Wolf-Sport: interchange the CVJs (left <-> right) both inner and outer, to wear the surfaces more evenly. Seems like sound advice.

Jan

From: BBS::UUCP%"uunet!usc.edu!jan%dev7d.mdcbbs.com" 2-OCT-1990 15:42:35.04 To: info-vw@ames.arc.nasa.gov
CC:
Subj: RE: CV joint replacement


Some one liners for CV rebuild jobbers:

Get the right tools (it's worth it, believe me)
- T-slide and 30 mm socket to remove the axle (socket should clear the wheel)
- Vise
- CVJ tool (check what your car has = inner spline, hex, ?torx?)
- Big (preferably plastic) hammer (for new style CVJs)
- Can of Chemtool (to get the old grease off) & spray can of similar stuff Get CV grease (I found a grease pump to which you attach a needle very helpfull)

You may need new boots (VW has a rebuilt kit that has all you need) Throw away Haynes get Bentley and/or Muir If joints are still ok: swap them from left <-> right Remember: you *may* need a hydraulic press to get the inboard CV joint back in You may be able to rig something up with a vise & a hub puller, or simply not remove the joint (I'm not sure that's possible). Tube of anti-seize: Make your next job easy. (Use on bolts & axle).

NB: Clicking may also be caused by the inboard CVJ.

Probably forgot a few, but this should help.

Jan

From: BBS::IN%"'jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com, jan@lipari.usc.edu' <uunet!usc.edu!'jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com, jan@lipari.usc.edu'%MDCBBS.COM:JAN%DEV7D>" 18-DEC-1990 00:56:44.73 To: lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jaborn@decwrl, ames!info-vw@decwrl CC:
Subj: RE: CV Joint Hitting

Yes, the manual sez "use a light metal hammer to drive the outer CV joint of the shaft".

Well... with me it went somewhat like this:

Lightweight hammers => nearly impossible to find. Bought a hard plastic (16 oz) at Sears.

Started tapping on the outside with the plastic hammer. No movement. Started hitting harder, nothing. Took out real hammer (20 oz) with small drift. Started tapping on the inside of the CVJ (not the balls, but the inner cage, taking care not to damage splines). Started hitting harder... Reverted to a block of wood against outer portion of CVJ. No movement. Finally, out of shear frustration, just whaked the outer portion of the CVJ with the hammer, and that did the trick.

Naturally, yours may come of easier... but judging from an old CVJ that is a paper weight now, VW must have reverted to the last method as well.

Anyone have a better way of doing this?

Caveats:

Some CVJs use circlips instead of this "spring-clip" The dished washer is often broken.

Jan

From: BBS::IN%"uunet!CS.YALE.EDU!narem-james" "James E. Narem Jr." 18-DEC-1990 13:51:50.46 To: ames!info-vw@decwrl
CC:
Subj: RE: Jan's message on CV Joint hitting

Normally I'd mail to you directly but your "From:" line is useless. Hell, I shouldn't even get this message since I read rec.autos.vw but Jordan hasn't dropped me from the list yet.

There are a few ways of getting a recalcitrant outer CV joint off. As you noted, there are two types: the spring clip and the circlip. (Note that the inners are much different, and this discussion does not apply). The circlip kind is easy, you should always check for this before assuming that the CV uses a spring clip. Spray brakeclean in the CV to remove the grease (and wear gloves, the grease is somewhat toxic) and look for a gap in the inner ball race where the circlip on the shaft is visible.

The light metal hammer method to remove the spring clip retained CV uses a copper or brass faced hammer and really only works if the splines were greased when it was last assembled. It's easiest to do it when the boot is cut off completely. Try to hit the inner race or you run the risk of breaking the ball cage. The best way to remove it is with a large bearing separator rigged to press its face against the inner race. Open a vice to fit the driveshaft and slam the separator against the top of the vice jaw. The point of this is to distribute the force evenly on the inner race. If you don't have a bearing separator, use a LARGE pair of channellocks and strike a hammer against the pivot point of the pliers while holding the handle.

The general principle here is that the force applied must not only be in the correct direction, but the vector sum of the applied forces must be centered on the shaft or the splines will jam. It's similar to why it is better to tighten fasteners with a t-handle breaker bar than a one handle ratchet (though in this case it is a torque rather than a force).

Incidently, a bearing separator (with a two arm puller) also solves the inner CV joint circlip problem. If you can't get the circlip on with a 1 inch 12pt socket and a hammer, use the sep+puller to press the socket down on the clip until it seats. This avoids the absurd press setup shown in the bentley manual. Oh, it is a funny circlip. I use a Sears piston ring expander to get it on the shaft. Regular circlip pliers don't really work.

And since I'm babbling on about CV joints, here is the response I wrote to someone who asked (on rec.autos.vw, today, in fact) about the difference and interchangablity between old Golf and Passat (Rabbit and Dasher in the US) outer CV joints:

>From narem Tue Dec 18 14:05:44 1990
>To: rxxgpf@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
>Subject: golf CV joints I have had exactly the same problem on the US versions of the cars, namely the 1981 Rabbit (Golf) and a 1974 Dasher (Passat). The rabbit outer CV joints are a smaller diameter at the tapered part after the splined shaft and they have a small metal spray shield at the largest point on the taper. The Dasher outer CV is missing the spray shield and is big enough to lock up in the hub when the axle nut is tightened. I found out the hard way.

A year ago when my dasher rusted out, I took off the parts I thought might be useful and gave the car up for scrap. The rabbit broke a ball cage on the outer CV and lost a ball. Either kind of outer CV costs about $70 from aftermarket US parts sources, for instance, Rapid Parts of NY.

I wasn't in the mood to wait since my other car is disassembled, and I had the Dasher drive line and a lathe, so I matched the tapers and made it fit. It's been working for six months now. Only the inner bearing surfaces are hardened, the taper is real easy to cut.

The attaching method is different, but it turns out that the spring clip will retain the circlip style outer CV. There is a grove cut in the end of the inner race for the spring clip, but there is enough play in the cone and washer on the other side for the CV to hold. You could cut the grove but the inner race is difficult to chuck, so I didn't bother. I didn't save the Dasher driveshaft, so I don't know if it has the grove for the spring clip, so it may be necessary to cut a grove since the spring clip style CVs do not have an access hole for the circlip. You'd need a good sized lathe to do this, since the driveshaft won't fit through a 3/4" headstock feed hole. E.g. a dasher outer CV will fit a rabbit after cutting the taper, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Do people with TOYotas need to know this sorta stuff?

..........jim (Narem@cs.yale.edu, decvax!yale!narem, Narem@YaleCS.BITNET)

From: BBS::IN%"uunet!BBN.COM!jaborn" "Justin A. Aborn" 8-JAN-1991 22:10:27.13 To: "jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com" <jan@dev7.MDCBBS.COM> CC:
Subj: RE: CVJ from Hell (or these newer VW are too stuffed)

Jan,

You need to remove the bolt on the stearing knuckle/bearing housing that holds it to the ball joint on the suspension arm. It takes a little banging to get the ball joint stud out of the stearing knuckle, maybe a screwdriver in the slot that forms the "stud pincher".

You might have to remove the brake caliper to remove the bolt that holds the ball joint.

Justin

From: BBS::IN%"uunet!mims-iris.waterloo.edu!tom" "Tom Haapanen" 9-JAN-1991 05:19:49.92 To: ames!info-vw@decwrl (Info-VW mailing list) CC:
Subj: RE: CVJ from Hell (or these newer VW are too stuffed)

Jan Vanderbrande wrote:
> Has anyone out there been successfull in removing the left hand > drive axle from an A-2 based car (i.e. > 85 Golf, GTI, Jetta, etc). >
> The normal procedure is:

> Remove axle bolt
> Remove Inner CVJ bolts
> Turn steering wheel to full left (for left hand side)
> Slide move axle & inner CVJ up towards the interior of the engine
> Slide other end with outer CVJ out of the bearing assembly. > The problem is that there is simply no room to slide the axle > up towards the interior of the engine. I tried twisting everything > one way or the other without any luck. >
> (I though of a couple of solutions: detach A-frame from strut assembly, > & move strut the additional amount to free the axle; or, remove > gear selectors to allow CVJ to pass to the interior of the engine). My friend Tom, who has done more CV joints than I've owned cars says that he removes the wheel, detaches the ball joint from the strut assembly, and removes the steering knuckle (I think I got that approximately right). After that it's easy to get to the CV joint.

[ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu ] [ "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]

From: BBS::IN%"uunet!BBN.COM!jaborn" "Justin A. Aborn" 9-JAN-1991 12:56:46.82 To: ames!info-vw@decwrl
CC:
Subj: Left CVJ Removal

You can take out the left axel by disconnecting the ball joint from the stearing knuckle. No other disconnections need be made to get enough clearance to pull out the left axel.

You will need to turn the stearing all the way to one side. To the left. I think left.

If the bolt that holds the stearing knuckle to the ball joint stud is in the "wrong" way, you will need to move the brake caliper a little to get that ball joint bolt out. To move the brake caliper loosen the two bolts that hold it to the stearing knuckle. Pull the bottom bolt out of its hole, and pivot the caliper on the top bolt. This gives enough clearance to remove the bolt. Put the bolt in the "right" way when you reassemble the stearing knuckle.

Justin



Article 35574 of rec.autos.vw:
Path: lynx.unm.edu!nntp.sunbelt.net!udel!gatech!howland. reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!diag 066.cvm.msstate.edu!user From: maslin@CVMFaculty.MSState.Edu (William Maslin) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] Frozen Axle Shaft Nut (how to get off?) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:39:35 -0500
Organization: Mississippi State University Lines: 47
Message-ID: <maslin-1407941239350001@diag066.cvm.msstate.edu> References: <Csu9nK.AH9@world.std.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: diag066.cvm.msstate.edu In article <Csu9nK.AH9@world.std.com>, dec@world.std.com (Daniel E Collins) wrote:

> Hello All:
>
> I am having trouble getting the passenger-side axle\shaft nut loose. > The driver's side nut came loose without a whimper. I have bent a 4 ft > piece of pipe used as a breaker bar, and destroyed an 18 in. 1\2 drive > breaker bar. Am I missing something? Is the passenger side nut opposite > threaded?
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> -Dan

Both axle nuts have the same threads. I borrow a 3/4 inch Craftsman breaker bar or ratchet handle and socket from the maintenance guys here at work when I have to remove the axle nut. The last time I had to remove one (one which I had never removed before), I had to jump up and down on the handle to get it to come loose. When taking my weight and the length of the handle into account, I was probably generating at least 300 lbs of torque, in any event, far in excess of the 170 lbs specified by the manual. I feel fairly certain that I would have broken a 1/2" drive tool. It looked like some previous bubba mechanic had put loctite on the threads, and the possibility that he or she had also torqued the nut on too tight cannot be excluded. If you put antiseize compound on the threads and torque the nut properly, you should be able to use 1/2" drive tools to remove it in the future. BTW, VW recommends replacing the nut with a new one. A 3/4 Craftsman slide handle breaker bar costs about $25, a 3/4 inch drive 1 3/16 socket (equivalent to 30 mm) is about $10-12. You might be able to find a cheaper outfit at tool store.

BTW, it helps to support the handle or extension at its rotation point using a jack, jackstand, piece of wood, etc. so that the socket is perfectly square with the nut.

Good luck.

Bill
maslin@cvmfaculty.msstate.edu

78 Rabbit...since new! 82 Convertible...since last July!

From medtron!inst.medtronic.com!pc0100@uunet.UU.NET Wed Nov 10 13:31:21 1993 Return-Path: <medtron!inst.medtronic.com!pc0100@uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Re: CV Boots...
To: cmice@mke.ab.com (Christopher Ice x2136) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 12:30:56 CST
In-Reply-To: <9311101328.AA00160@tinman.mke.ab.com>; from "Christopher Ice x2136" at Nov 10, 93 7:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

As Christopher Ice x2136 writes:
>
> As a follow up to my adventures, I noticed I have a badly torn CV boot at the > wheel (driver's side). Anyone replace these things? Big job? Special tools? > Should I just leave it to the pros with the tools?

Not that tough to do. You need the big socket for the axle nut and the special clamp pliers (some auto-parts places will rent them) for the boot kit also need the trick sline wrench for the inside half-shaft bolts. (on the older coupes it's 8 mm triple-square on the quattro's it's a 10mm one. It _looks_ like a standard hex will fit DON'T try itlong story here abount stripped out grade 9 bolts and drills and easy-out's in dark cramped quarters ;-) ). Replacing the outer boot really isn't that hard. Check the Bently for the exact sequence for your make/model/year. It would be nice if the strut assembly was like the newer jap units in that the half-shaft could be repaired without removal , but it's not.

Basicly remove the brake caliper, remove the axle nut (before it's off the ground- big air gun required here) remove the inside bolts, remove any covers required , remove half-shaft. Outer joint- remove joint from axle (hammer it off or circlip it depends on car) clean old grease out (all of it) , inspect joint balls/races/cage for wear, if it's ok re-lube and re-assemble. I also clean and re-lube the inner joint at this time. I once caught a near catastrophic inner joint failure while repairing the outer boot on my coupe. The inner joint had NOT been properly reassmbled by the dealer after changing the clutch (I was pressed for time and it was cold out) the inner ball track was "flaking up" and disgorging metal fragments into the joint. Mondo discussion with shop about what,who,how much. They finally went half on the new part. I don't let them even wash my car after that! The tools run about $60 bucks or there abouts. joint kit is $25 bucks and includes the clips,washers,grease ,boot etc.

Really one of the simpler drivetrain maint. tasks on the car.

I think the book on labor is 3-4 hours. Enjoy.

>
> Chris
> --
> ========
> +---------------------| _ /| |---------------------+ Opinions expressed here > | Chris Ice, CMfgT | \`o_O' | Allen-Bradley Co. | are mine and don't > | cmice@mke.ab.com | ( ) | Milwaukee, WI USA | reflect the views of my > +---------------------| U |---------------------+ employer. So there!

> | Ack! |
> ======== >

From dans@ans.net Wed Nov 10 15:52:13 1993 Return-Path: <dans@ans.net>
From: Dan Simoes <dans@ans.net>
Message-Id: <199311102150.AA45503@foo.ans.net> Subject: CVJ jobs
To: quattro@aries.East.Sun.COM (Audi Mailing List) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 16:50:25 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2073
Status: RO We just did this on my 86 GLI this weekend. I assume the 90 is similar, although I guess the tranny is in a different spot.

Essentially:

• Remove wheel center cap or cover to expose the axle nut
• Using a good socket (Jetta was 30mm) and breaker bar, loosen but do not remove the bolt. You can fabricate a breaker bar using a good socket wrench with a lifetime warranty :-) and a length of pipe. Slide the wrench into the pipe, you'll figure out how to use it.
• Jack up the car, and use stands or whatever.
• You can remove the wheel if you like, it may not be necessary.
• Remove the 8 or so bolts holding the inner CVJ to the tranny. On the Jetta, these are 12 point 8mm female bolts that DOES require a special tools for removal. Sears claims to carry it, Snap-On does, I got mine at a local parts store.
• Loosen and remove the axle nut.
• Slide the axle up towards the engine compartment at the inner end, then remove it, outer CVJ first.

NOTE: Bentley recommends loosing the ball joint nuts (2). I found this necessary only on the driver's side axle because it would not clear.

• On the bench, cut off the old boot and clamps.
• With a soft faced mallet, bang the joint off - there is a small circlip that holds it in place on the axle - once you've cleared it, it's off.
• Repack the joint with CVJ grease. Bentley recommends 1/2 tube in the joint, 1/2 in the boot. I put most in the joint.
• Put the joint back on, replace clips if necessary.
• Install the new boot and clamps.
• Reinstall the axle, axle nut and wheel.

My outer left CVJ boot was completely ripped, and making a lot of noise. I took a chance on just replacing the boot and repacking the joint instead of a new joint. 1 hour and $12 later, the joint shows no abnormal signs, even when doing 360s :-). This is all from memory, I'll have to add specifics in later. All in all, a much easier job than I thought.

| Dan |

--

Dan Simoes dans@ans.net
Associate Programmer (914) 789-5378
Advanced Network & Services Elmsford, NY Subject: Re: [Corrado-L] CV boot
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:23:47 -0700 (PDT) To: corrado-l@corrado-club.com, pmoorse@home.com From: Gerry Salazar <gerry@vitesse.com> Patrick,

$200 for CV boot replacement labor sounds waaayyyy too high. If you're mechanically adept you should be able to do it...although it is kind of a pain.

Whatever you do, do not buy the boot anywhere but the dealer. The dealer kit includes the boot, 2 clamps, a new axle nut (required), circlup, and the correct grease you should be running in there.

If you decide to do the job yourself, here are a few things to keep in mind:

• Make sure you clean all (I mean ALL) the old grease from the CV joint. Clean with shop towels (blue ones that can be purchased at parts stores), and DO NOT use any chemicals. Most "cleaners" leave a small coating that will prevent the lubricant from adhering to the metal, which will reduce the lubricating efficiency.
• Pay attention to the direction the basket goes in the outter cassing. Ideally you should mark the casing and the basket, so you install it in the same position it came out. At the very least make sure you get the correct side outwards uppon assembly.
• Don't crimp the boot to tight against the joint, or too stretched onto the axle. This is the number one cause of premature boot failure. The Bently has a good picture and dimensions on correct assembly.
• Get the clamps very tight.

OK, here's the procedure. You'll need a large rubber or copper hammer, a 31 or 32 mm (can't remember which one the C uses) socket (1/2" drive), 1/2" braker bar, and a 1 1/2 to 2 foot tube that will fit over the braker bar.

• With the car still on the ground, loosen the hub nut. Use the tube to increase the lever arm, as this nut is torqued to 160 ft/lb...and will be tighter from years of abuse.
• Lift the car and support on jackstands.
• Remove wheel.
• Remove lower ball joint. You should mark the position of the 3 bolts with whiteout, so you get the alignement close uppon assembly.
• Slide CV joint out of hub.
• Cut old boot from CV joint (yes, it is very messy).
• Using large hammer, hit the inner portion of the CV joint (the part attached to the axle, not the basket) to release it from the axle.
• Clean the axle and replace the circlip.
• Clean CV joint. (NOTE: another way to clean the joint is to put it in a pan with motor oil and heat it up. This will melt the grease and remove it...carefull when you remove the hot joint)
• Inspect the balls and the grooves for wear or discoloring. If there are hot spots (blue colored), you might want to consider a new joint. I've done CV boots on joints with 100Kmiles, and never had to replace one.
• Reassemble the CV joint, paying attention to the orientation of the basket.
• Add the supplied grease to the CV joint. The whole tube is not needed, but use as much as you can fit.
• Slide the new boot over the axle.
• Install the CV joint, put the rest of the grease inside the boot, slide over joint, and put the clamps.
• Reinsert CV joint into hub, and replace ball joint.
• Make sure you use the new axle nut
• Once you lower the car, tighten the axle nut to the specified torque (I think it's 160 ft/lb, but check the Bently)

Make sure you're not wearing anything that you do not want stained...the grease VW uses is a special Moly grease that will only come out of your clothes using scissors. (You can try washing with "Head and Shoulders", sometimes it does the trick) There you have it. It's messy, and it'll probably take you half a day the first time, but it's definetly doable. I can do a CV boot on a VW in 30 minutes to an hour...which would be $70 at standard dealer labor rates, not $200.

Good luck,

Gerry.
90 G60-GT

shnee

talked to two mechanics pretty thoroughly today about cv joints
i trust my mechanic completely, and this guy said the same thing.

apparently you can drive with fucked up joints for thousands and thousands of miles, but they just dont perform as well: hesitation, vibration, clicking...
eventually they will completely fail and you just wont get any power to your wheel..

basically, from what i was told, you arent endangering yourself with a bad joint, and you could probably go for a very very very long time before it completely fails

but obviously fix it if you can, because yeah, a sudden failure would be a pain in the ass

Jtbecool

Yeah I went like 10,000KM on a bad axle in my old civic before I replaced it. It wasn't too hard to replace, just follow the steps. I had instructions that I didnt follow well, and it was a bitch until I paid attention to them.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

damn, and the award for the longest post EVER goes to AJ

RedX

wow thanks for all the info, right now I am noticing a loss of power and hesitation though that could be from not getting a tune up in lord knows how long.

CLpwner

So if I just started hearing the clicking noise your mechanic says I should be ok for a while? Even though I definitely will try to get it rplaced as soon as i can... I have noooooooo money...

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Start saving

CLpwner

hahaha I get paid soon

SwervinCL

If you do them yourself, they should run you well under 200 bucks to do... More like 160ish.

You can rent the 33mm(i think, could be 32mm) socket to get the hub bolt off.. Thats really the hardest part of the whole project...

CLpwner

Yea, the only problems are

1. how long would it take... I might have to wait till the summer
2. I have no idea what to do
3. Would it last a trip 130 miles to and 130 miles back?

CraZY-tAlk

added: use at least 2 jack for this it very dangerous if you use stander jack from your car.. those are pos.... buy yourself a good one that you know that cant kill you.

novice = 3 hour
pro = 30-40 min

what you do is take off your wheel than remove the axel nut (easier if you leave your wheel on and pop out the center cap then get the socket and a breaker bar and take that pos off, pos = piece of sh*t, new axel come with new nut) next you will need to get the fort to come off which u use a 19mm (i think i forgot) on one side and the other side to take off the bolt (bolt is about 4 inch long). after that you will need to hit the axel so it come out of the hub, while hitting the axel to push into the tranny BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO HIT SO HARD THAT YOU CAN MESS UP YOUR TRANNY (sorry for the cap) just tap so it can come out of the hole. after that push your rotor/brakes a side tie it up or somthing careful of the brake line, then you should have enough room to go under the car and get a pray bar, pray that axel out, once it pop out just pull it out.. and install the new one.. the new one is VERY TRICKEY! what you do is when you put it back into the tranny snap it in.. or that bad boy wont go in all the way... what you do is hold one end of the axel and hold on the other end line it up stright and when you about to push it in snap it in dont just push. why is it so hard to go in? it because of the ring that lock into the tranny so the axel dont fly out ahhaha. then your done reversed the instruction and your done.

this is for the passenger side.. i havent look at the driver side yet but i know it not that hard

sorry am so unorganize to tired it 1:11am x_X

CraZY-tAlk

oh shoot i forgot about the lower control arm ... the fort connect to the lower control arm so after taking off the fort remove the bolt that connect the spindle and the lower control arm. NOW you can move the rotor and brakes freely. sorry i cant think at night and reread my post.. i knew i forgot somthing..

what you need :
breaker bar
36mm socket
19mm socket
17mm socket
17mm wrench or additional socket
1/2'' driver for big sockets
hammer
prybar

CraZY-tAlk

this step is befor you take off the fork!!!!!

oh shoot i forgot about the lower ball joint. you have to remove the lower ball joint bolt. to remove the bolt you need to remove the cotter pin. then use the hammer and hit on your lower control arm to get the spindle loose so you can take it off (ball joint to come loose). NOW you can move the rotor and brakes freely. sorry i cant think at night and reread my post.. i knew i forgot somthing..

what you need :
breaker bar
36mm socket
19mm socket
17mm socket
17mm wrench
1/2'' driver for big sockets
hammer
dykes (i think that how you spell it)
prybar

on top i said fort.. i ment to say fork...

shnee

3. yes, definitely


i went for a long time with my busted joint.
just wait till you have the money

CLpwner

Iight thanks... and the two posts before this... do you have any pictures... I'm less than a novice... I'm Super Noob... haha

so thats what like a few days for me?

CraZY-tAlk

yea sure ill post some picture.. but just so you know i dont have a diy for a accord/cl.. it actully picture step by step for civic.. but it pretty easy. just look at the picture get the idea and look at your car. it basically the same. kinda... hahaha

umm sorry am noob to this fourm and i have no idea how to post picture.. i did read the newb guide but i will post picture tomorrow AFTER i figer it out.

CLpwner

[IMG] (where its hosted here) [/IMG]

Thanks

CraZY-tAlk

here go buddy,

steps,,,,
1:

2:take of the axel nut

3:cotter pin on the lower ball joint take it off

4:now after taking that pin out take off the nut

5:hit the lower control arm so the ball joint will pop loose

6:through bolt that holds the lower strut "fork" to the lower control arm

7:hit the end of the axel so it come out of the hub/knuucle

8:

9:pry the axel out

10:compare

11:install new one..(remember the trick you cant just slide the bad boy in.. you have to like shake it in.. or like push it in and snap it out then push it back in so that when you push it in the ring on the axel would go down and when u snap it back it go in the senter then when u pushing it in the ring would be equal as the axel end and then what how it would go into the tranny. tak your time it took me 1 hour and 10 mintute to get that end in the tranny..)



than reversd the step u got the axel out. ongrat your done and you have save yourself some money.

(got the information from H-T.com sorry i dont have the link or know who to give props too)

CLpwner

Wow... thanks... I'll have to have either Brad(5-Speed) or Duckie help me... But I would love to do this myself...

thanks

RedX

Finally got my tax return back, going to get it fixed next week sometime.

RedX

Update:
I called one place and they said it was the roaters not the axles because when we got the breaks done, the place didnt have the machine for acuras. He told us to call HonTech.

We called HonTech and they said nope its your axles, so we took it down, 2 days later and $500 gone, theres no more clicking.

CLpwner

so what was it... the CV joint?

SIRSIG

does your car vibrates/shakes too?



btw, about those pictures. what test (beside visual) can you do to know which axle is bad? is there grease under the boot?

CLpwner

Bump to find out how its bad...

shnee

It didn't when I had the busted joint. The only thing that was obviously wrong was the loud clicking.

98.CL.Gho$t

ok.

I love your icon.

< huge dork.

RedX

It was the CV Joints.