What swap is cheaper?
09-03-2004, 12:44 AM
#1
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What swap is cheaper?
Which swap would be cheaper (including installation, parts, tuning, etc.) in a 3.0?
F2.3 with a turbo
H22A
What are the advantages and disadvantages of both of these.
F2.3 with a turbo
H22A
What are the advantages and disadvantages of both of these.
Good luck with that.
09-03-2004, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Katana18
i think if u even attempt this, you're gonna be wasting a lot of freakin money.
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09-03-2004, 08:51 AM
#8
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Well, any type of swap would a long time down the road, I still have alot of other stuff I want to get first.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
09-03-2004, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Zerostatic
Well, any type of swap would a long time down the road, I still have alot of other stuff I want to get first.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
Guys on this forum do swaps and turbos for more HP in the 2.2 or 2.3 but never in the 3.0. If I were going to swap a 3.0 why not go for a bigger six? I think the issue is why go to a smaller engine then modify it to be just as powerful as the one you already have?
Is it worth the work, money and hassle with tuning that you will encouter doing this swap for a manual transmission. If it is good luck I aint mad at you. We all have our own opinion do whats best for you, were are just offering different ideas.
09-03-2004, 11:06 AM
#12
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This would not be a pointless swap, it's something i've been looking into for a long time. While yes the 3.0 would seem like a waste to get rid of if you want any type of performance you need to get rid of it. Hell a stock f22/23 CL basically keeps up w/ a 3.0.
If my tranny blows I WILL do this swap, but it will definately be a boosted h22a.
The hassle really wouldn't be much, so far the only pitfalls I see are you would have to make new mounts (not hard) and you may have to relocate some components (not many if any)
In reality 3.0's aren't selling for much more then 2.3/2.2's. So it may be logical to swap cars and do it, but it owuldn't make much difference.
If my tranny blows I WILL do this swap, but it will definately be a boosted h22a.
The hassle really wouldn't be much, so far the only pitfalls I see are you would have to make new mounts (not hard) and you may have to relocate some components (not many if any)
In reality 3.0's aren't selling for much more then 2.3/2.2's. So it may be logical to swap cars and do it, but it owuldn't make much difference.
09-03-2004, 11:07 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by Randol
Civics and Accords do swaps for more horsepower not just for the sake of doing a swap!!! You should already have at least 200 hp stock they are trying to catch up with your HP; why not turbocharge the six or do a supecharger since money is not a big deal for you. You could do either of those custom for probably five grand.
Guys on this forum do swaps and turbos for more HP in the 2.2 or 2.3 but never in the 3.0. If I were going to swap a 3.0 why not go for a bigger six? I think the issue is why go to a smaller engine then modify it to be just as powerful as the one you already have?
Is it worth the work, money and hassle with tuning that you will encouter doing this swap for a manual transmission. If it is good luck I aint mad at you. We all have our own opinion do whats best for you, were are just offering different ideas.
Guys on this forum do swaps and turbos for more HP in the 2.2 or 2.3 but never in the 3.0. If I were going to swap a 3.0 why not go for a bigger six? I think the issue is why go to a smaller engine then modify it to be just as powerful as the one you already have?
Is it worth the work, money and hassle with tuning that you will encouter doing this swap for a manual transmission. If it is good luck I aint mad at you. We all have our own opinion do whats best for you, were are just offering different ideas.
The transmission is the hassle, you will never be able to get ANY power out of the honda/acura v6 automatic cars w/o blowing trannies. The only way out is to do something like the dr. evil. But then you are spending 5K and you are still stuck w/ a 200HP motor. For 5K you can put in a fully built and boosted h22a that would smoke anything you could do for 7-8K w/ the 3.0
09-03-2004, 11:08 AM
#14
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another option to look at and something i've been investigating is swapping in a k24 w/ k20 head. It'd be costly but it'd have that pimp factor.
09-03-2004, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CLpower
another option to look at and something i've been investigating is swapping in a k24 w/ k20 head. It'd be costly but it'd have that pimp factor.
I was reading into that as well... the motors are really quite expensive still looking at 3k at least just for the motor. at least that is the norm. I bet you could find them for cheaper but not by much unless you just got a hook on that.
a stock 2.2/3 can keep up with the 3.0?? the 3.0 can outrun a 2.3 without much problems. my car tops out at 129 on the speedo. well if I just kept going maybe get up to 131 or something. the 3.0 pegs and keeps going.
09-03-2004, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ib_jimmy
imma stick with my J30. more horse and torque then the h22....lower bandwidth for that low end power.
yea, but barely and when you put both cars on the dyno the #'s are almost identical as far as HP goes, but they rev higher. This isn't a swap for everyone. I enjoy my J30, it's got nice get up and go, but it's just slow as shit. But so is a stock H22. Hence why I said the only way I'd do it is w/ a boosted h22
09-03-2004, 02:11 PM
#18
Suzuka Master
if u have the same basic mods on a j30 and a h22, theorically(i hope that spelled right) a v6 would gain more H&T then a 4banger 2.2 would. wouldnt ya think?
09-03-2004, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ib_jimmy
if u have the same basic mods on a j30 and a h22, theorically(i hope that spelled right) a v6 would gain more H&T then a 4banger 2.2 would. wouldnt ya think?
theoretically yes, but in reality not really. Basically because of the parts available for the 4 bangers. For example the only cams for the J30 are the type S cams, I have yet to see a true dyno on these but I'd say they are good for 15 hp. YOu can get cams for a h22 that'll yeild alot better gains then that. As been stated before the tranny is the main thing that kills us. Our motors can and will handle boost, but the tranny won't. If it wasn't for this tranny I would of been driving a turbo 3.0 A LONG time ago. I even came REAL close to getting that HKS prototype kit that was sold a few years back but decided against it as it went to high and the tranny issue is just to much.
09-03-2004, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Zerostatic
Well, any type of swap would a long time down the road, I still have alot of other stuff I want to get first.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
Guys with Civics and Accords that are older and worth less then my CL do these kinda swaps all the time, so when you guys say it'll be a waste of money, I think that it's just the mentality over here. Swaps are rare over here so when you hear that something will cost 5,000 to do, you guys get all freaked but swaps are expensive.
The main thing is that I want a manual tranny. If I felt comfortable doing the CL-S 6speed tranny swap I would consider that. But even that would be roughly 4,500. I could have a turbo F23 for that price. And I could smoke a stock J30 with a manual tranny. I also considered the entire engine and tranny from a CL-S, but I got a quote for 5,000 just for the engine and tranny. Add another 2,000 for installation and we're talking 7,000. The F23 Turbo would be roughly as fast for thousands less.
Regardless, any swap would probably be like a year down the road.
09-04-2004, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by baka_t
I doubt that you could do a f23 turbo for 4,500. A good turbo kit alone is $3500 + piping, plus you still gotta get the f23 in which means new mounts, re routing things ect. f23 turbo's arent fast at all unless their built.
turbo kits aren't that expensive if you look in the right places, hell you can get h22a and f22/23 manifolds on ebay for a few hundred bucks
09-06-2004, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Randol
You should already have at least 200 hp stock they are trying to catch up with your HP; why not turbocharge the six or do a supecharger since money is not a big deal for you. You could do either of those custom for probably five grand.
09-06-2004, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CLpower
turbo kits aren't that expensive if you look in the right places, hell you can get h22a and f22/23 manifolds on ebay for a few hundred bucks
09-06-2004, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Cocoa
couldnt you just buy the 3.2 type S block along with it's 6speed tranny? rather than a full swap, just to save some money.
09-06-2004, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Katana18
your best bet is to supercharge the J30, and call it a day. if you try all that other shit, you might as well light your money on fire.
so spend 3K on a S/C and then watch the tranny go?
09-06-2004, 06:06 PM
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for anything that you can do to a car... how can you call it an investment.
anything you put on your car immediatly devalues the item itself and perhaps the retail of the car unless someone is into tuning and modding and things like that.
so I would not call that swap an investment rather just a less costly option in the long run.
anything you put on your car immediatly devalues the item itself and perhaps the retail of the car unless someone is into tuning and modding and things like that.
so I would not call that swap an investment rather just a less costly option in the long run.
09-06-2004, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ju5tchi11in
for anything that you can do to a car... how can you call it an investment.
anything you put on your car immediatly devalues the item itself and perhaps the retail of the car unless someone is into tuning and modding and things like that.
so I would not call that swap an investment rather just a less costly option in the long run.
anything you put on your car immediatly devalues the item itself and perhaps the retail of the car unless someone is into tuning and modding and things like that.
so I would not call that swap an investment rather just a less costly option in the long run.
09-07-2004, 12:30 AM
#39
baka, do you have the 3.0? You mentioned earlier that you have the j32 and tranny and just waiting on the tranny rebuilt. If so, would it be pointless for me to just look for the j32 block with the 6speed, or should I just look into the full swap? Really all I'm looking for is to swap my auto into a 6 speed.
09-07-2004, 08:31 AM
#40
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look for the full swap. If anything you'd want to do the heads of the 3.2. There is a guy who is working on this rignt now over on v6p