Zerostatic

1. Is there any benefit to using an external waste-gate as opposed to an internal waste-gate?

2. How does an electronic boost controller actually control the boost if I thought the waste-gate was responsible for determining the boost?

3. How much boost is considered safe on a stock F23 on stock internals?

4. What do you think of using a T3 turbo on a F23 non-vtec?

5. An intercooler works by cooling the air going into the engine thus providing more power, right? How much power are we talking about?

6. I see plenty of generic intercoolers on EBay. Would these be find for a budget-minded setup or is this the type of thing that it would be better to save up money and buy a premium one (i.e. spearco).

7. What size intercooler would you reccomend in a CL equipped with an F23 non-vtec pushing low boost?

8. Is an AEM adjustable fuel pressure regulator enough to ensure that enough fuel gets into the engine in a mildly boosted application?

9. Do they sell turbo manifold for the F23 and if so how expensive? If not how much does it cost to get a custom one manufactored?

Hobo

about the intercooler stuff,

by cooling the air you can raise boost levels safely, so a bigger intercooler can result in gains in the 50-100 hp level

you prolly dont want an ebay special, but theres no reason to go for the big name shit, find a happy meduim.

intercooler sizing is more intricate, it depends on how much boost you are going to run, a large front mount can also make the turbo take longer to spool.

you might need a fuel pump...



i have a question now, why are you talkign about this f23 stuff when you have a 3.0, care to update us on your project

xrunner86x

1. External wastegates are more efficient because you can run a dump tube, thus removing restriction from the exhaust. They are also easier to adjust because they have a spring rather than a rod.

2. Boost controllers function to raise boost over the level of the pressure level of the wastegate. You can not set boost below the wastegate setting with a boost controller. If you want to run a set boost level all the time, you dont need a boost controller.

3. Safe boost on stock internals depends on a number of factors. How healthy is the motor (compression leakdown test, mileage, maintainence, etc), what kind of engine management, intercooler size, what size turbo, and so on. I run 8psi daily and race at 10psi without any problems with a T3T4b turbo. I have an intercooler and engine management (Hondata) in addition to a bunch of other stuff (fuel and ignition upgrades, etc). The power you are making eventually becomes more of a factor than PSI.

4. What cars had a F23 non VTEC? Sorry to answer a question with a question but I wasnt aware of any. As for the T3, you can use it but that is a pretty small turbo for a 2.3 liter, it will spool fast but might not be the best choice. I would look into a T3T4 hybrid or similar size. Really it depends when you want it to spool and what kind of peak power you want.

5. When air is compressed it gets hot. The intercooler cools this air down. Not only is colder air more dense, it is less prone to detonation. I personally wouldnt consider a turbo without one because you can run more boost with much greater safety level with one.

6. You would probably be fine with a generic. Even a fairly small one is usually rated to around 300 hp, which you probably cant make on stock internals anyway. Of course, you can be virtually guarenteed the brand name will be a higher quality product.

7. The approximate dimensions of mine are 23x3.5x6 including end tanks. Im pretty sure its the one that comes with the FMAX kit for the accord. As far as fitting it with the CL bumper you could go longer but i wouldnt go taller or deeper.

8. Are you asking if a FPR as your only fuel modification would work for boost? If so, no. You need an FMU at the very least to increase fuel pressure as boost increases.

9. Manifolds for the F23 are somewhat hard to find. The FMAX one is about 650 new. There was one available on accordinglydone.com for about 300 at one point, not sure if its still there. Custom will probably be at least as much as the FMAX. I would check honda forums and ebay for used stuff.

Any further questions or elaboration needed let me know.

97Acura3.0CL

nice write up RunnerX

Zerostatic

First of all thanks for the in depth reply.


The 98-02 Honda Accord DX had a non-vtec F23. They are very cheap and I've been told that non-vtec is preferable for turbo applications.


Well, I wanted a good street setup with good low-end power. I won't be racing at a track or anything (at least not regularly). As far as peak HP goes, I'd be fine with around 200 WHP. Considering I'm more interested in low-end power do you think I'd be fine with the T3 or do you think I should still look into the T3/T4 hybrid.


I don't suppose a manifold from an F22 would fit on a F23?

xrunner86x

The only reason a non-VTEC motor would be better is because I think the VTEC versions usually have higher compression. Do you know the compression ratio for the non-VTEC F23? If it is lower than the VTEC version you can run more boost but will make less power per PSI, generally speaking.

With a T3/T4b i peak torque at 4000rpms and horspower at 5,200rpms. If you have a different compression ratio with the same turbo it will differ but thats a general idea.

There are two versions of the F22 I believe, one of them will fit, I want to say F22b, but Im not positive. One version will have exhaust ports evenly spaced 0-0-0-0 whereas the F23 is 0--0-0--0.

d98clturbo

well said xrunner...the manifold for the 94+ accord EX is the same for the f23

baka_t

Dude, your kidding rite, going from a 3.0 to a f23. Check v6p.net forums there's guys running in the high 190'swhp with intake, headers, exhaust, vafc, and type s cams. Way cheaper and more reliable than a f23 setup. Good luck if you do it tho, I'd think it be taking a step backward.

Zerostatic

I just wanna make around 200 HP to the wheels and have a manual tranny. I'm just trying to find the most cost effective way to do that.

I know in another thread I wrote, I stated my concerns about a J32 (CL-S) swap and about me assuming that it would be too big. You said in that thread that all the J series engines are the same size. How sure of that are you?

baka_t

I'd avise you to sell your 3.0, and go buy a 2.3 and turbo it. Cheaper and more cost effective in the long run. Esp if you want a manual. Good luck.

Zerostatic

"Warning" I'm going to go "Opera" on you.

I can't sell my car. My parents bought it for me for my b-day alittle while back and It would be messed up if I sold it. My family doesn't have a lot of money, and my CL is way nicer then any car they ever had. They bought it for me, cuz they knew I was a car nut and that I loved Acura's/Hondas. If it was me picking the car I would've gone for something that was manual and something that had more parts available (i.e. prelude, integra, civic si).

Oh well, maybe I'll just forget about the whole all-out performance thing. It seems like there are no reasonable routes to accomplish what I want to do.

baka_t

Well, In that case, just get the regular bolt ons, and work on the looks. IMO, the swap from the v6 to f23 is pointless. You can easily get nice power for daily driving from bolt-on's on the v6.

97-3.0Man

How much bHP does the 3.0 have anyway?

Zerostatic

I don't know if bHP means to the wheels or to the crank, but a 3.0 makes 200HP to the crank, and about 157 to the wheels.