mbuna

My 97 owners manual says, and I quote "your Acura is designed to operate on unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number of 86 OR HIGHER. (I guess the prevailing logic here at the board is since 87 is higher than 86 it must be the perfect fuel!)Use of a lower octane gasoline can cause a persisant, heavy metallic rapping noise in the engine (the dreaded spark knock) that can lead to mechanical damage." Using supreme isn't going to lose anybody any races, isn't going to void your warranty or any other hokie shit that I've read on this board. Not using plus or premium will result in dirtier oil,clogged up emissions and other maladies in the long haul. Trust me I've worked on enough plugged up old engines that were run on regular no-lead in the past 15 years to know the difference. My 94k '92 model mazda truck has a spotless engine and an unplugged original egr valve. never had anything but plus or super run through it. Sorry about the long ranting post but post but this one bit of ignorance really gets under my skin!

ilike2cheez

iTrader: (2)

i use 93 octane all the time with no probs. I have 100k on my car ( yes i drive a lot)......i figured the compression on the 2.3 is higher than the 2.2 then ill use 93 for the hell of it to be safe. Plus i have my cam gear set at 3 retard. Seems like a good idea so far.

niedejb

My recommendation for 87 is based on years of having the car and doing everything under the sun to it.

Even when it was stock I tried it (93) to seek power/performance to no avail. With every mod added I returned to the thought of "maybe now premium will help" just to find out I was wrong. I distinctly remember driving around just to burn up the 93 octane to get back to the right octane for our cars.

The words "premium" and "higher octane" are thrown around too much. Guessing what will do what is just that....guessing.

I'm confident in this enough to be willing to pay for 1/2 the cost to try 87 and 93 on a dyno and for all the gas if anyone is willing to try it on their car.

AtlCl

Ohh, well in that case I will stop using 87.
That's a pretty balsy statement with zero evidence to back it up, but I guess everyone else is an idiot and is wrong, but you are right.

Also, the 3.0 and 2.3 engines are a bit different, so you can't generalize what's good for both engines. The 2.3 was designed for regular and works much better with regular than premium.

Also, read do a search on google for the car & driver article that showed the v6 accord lost 2% hp with premium gas vs. regular.

97integrals

i gassed up yesterday and used 87.

I felt the difference. cant wait to burn that gas out.
i am gonna try 108 oct Sunoco!

CO30CL

Well, I've never torn my engine apart to inspect the cleanliness, but all the gasolines around here come w/ a detergent additive and I also throw in a bottle of fuel system cleaner at every oil change. As for performance, I definitely can notice my car has a little more acceleration using the 87 instead of the 91, although it runs fine with 91.

jttoombs

WoW! thats some statement but I have a few pointers, ideas, comments. First understand its all about compression, which is pretty low for out cars so low fuel can be used becuase its not being compressed to the point of ignition. Second higher octane doesnt create performance in a 4 cyl, people that claim performance boosts are usually super or turbo charged, and therefore have more added compression than the engine alone since air is being forced into the cylinders. This is why Turbo cars need higher octane. Below is a list of some pretty knowledgable sites and some actually come from gas companies, that in its self should tell you something usually companies will try to sell you something you dont need like 93 octane, but even the gas companies dont recomend anything over what your manuals base line is.

Before making a claim like that understand what your talking about, that way you can explain why its crap or isn't, and people won't think that you jumped to a conclusion because you have a good understanding of how gas works for domestics with carburators.

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...i_octane.shtml
http://www.howstuffworks.com/gasoline3.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
http://crystal.biol.csufresno.edu:8080/projects/9.html
http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

23

I had a small bit of pinging and some hesitation when climbing hills in low RPM second gear, I switched to premium Amoco and Mobile fuel and this corrected the problem with in a day, so there must be something to be said about the octane. And no it wasnt just a bad tank of gas that caused it the car was doing it for about a month and I go through at least a couple of tanks a week. To me the higher is better, and has proved it self to me.

jttoombs

And dont think these sites aren't reliable, I could build a nuclear reactor with the info thats on howstuffworks.com, The .gov site, well yeah they know what their talking about, and I assume Chevron does to, and probably Fresno too. Not so sure about the serviceadvisor.com though it might just be opinion.

CLpower

studies and test have been done on the 3.0 engine, you actually lose power using anything other 87 because the ecu isn't set up to burn that type of gas, so it doesn't burn it correctly. it was either C&D or R&T that did it and the v6 accord lost about 14 hp using 91 over 87

joeshmoe

I say go with whatever floats your boat.

This is a debate that will continue forever.

jttoombs

Yeah I guess your right, so I retract my previous statement Mbuna sorry man go with water ever you want, but Id still read up cant hurt anything by learning.

CLpower

it shouldn't be if it's been proven, you'll actually do more damage by running higher octane because it won't burn all the way and clog up your injectors

mbuna

My question is where did you guys read that our cars are designed to run on low octane fuel? If you're taking it from the owners manual, that's junk science. That was my point, not that higher octane will offer better performance, and without empirical evidence that 2.2 0r 2.3 cars make more power on one gas or another I don't think people should be told to use dirtier gas to make more power. If you don't believe regular no-lead is dirtier go fill up a gas can with it at the local quik-e mart and tell me what color you see? Most likely brown orange or yellow, most supreme is clear or is colored a detergent color (blue, green , pink). I never need carb or fuel injector cleaners in my cars, but my moms 99 2.3 accord always needs it injectors cleaned when I work on it because of hesitation and hard starting. She only uses 87 in it.

Oh and one more thing to whoever said my experience lies with domestic carburated vehicles, my 92 model Mazda p/u was assembled in Japan according to the underhood build tag. 94 was the year they started selling Rangers as Mazdas, and they've only been fuel injected since then, plus I do understand compression ratios, I've cc'd heads so I could figure out compression on american v8s when we rebuilt them. These kinds of generalizations about peoples experience are honestly kinda out of place on this forum, and I apologize if I stepped on anyone else's toes the way mine were stepped on. So without real data involving the 4-bangers power on different gas (one car in a test of 4 of 5 dissimilar vehicles that contains a different engine does not make it law,especially when applied to our cars)Maybe we should all refrain from recommending one fuel or another to make power.

jttoombs

Lol sorry bout the carburator thing it was me I appologized already above though, I realize how much like a dick I sounded so sorry again I realize people are different and so are their cars and what works well for you may not work well for me and vice versa so sorry I was in the wrong insulting you.

dustbuster4

I have better performance and better milage out of 87 octane versus 93. No comparison!

SmoothD

MBUNA: Just wanted to let you know you are arguing against two Chem majors and lots of experience. The "detergents" argument is bunk. All fuels (automotive) are required to carry some fashion. Simply because you see the "Super with Dextron" on the 93 pump doesn't mean it isn't in the 87.

CLpower

Car & Driver magazine did a whole article on octane ratings and cars, they tested a ton of them and put in different octanes. I don't know about your 2.3 but the 3.0 runs alot better on 87 then 91. The owners manual is junk i agree w/ you, but the ecu isn't set up to run such a high octane, the timing is off, and there is no way of changing it w/ o reprogramming the ecu.

CLpower

yep, my gas milage has been alot better since I switched back over to 87

Nugs3

I came across this on the Av6 site.
http://www.v6accord.com/forums/show...ight=higher+gas

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm


__________________

Bdog

A guy here races go-carts and measures the octane rating of different gas companys and they are never what they say. He told me to get 87 unless I have a real high compression car, which still get 87 and substitute octain boosters or alcohol to get what I need. His findings here was Amoco had the cleanest gas and closest octain rating

clac225

it has been DYNO prooven that on a 3.0 honda that the car loses 10whp if using 93 rather than the recomened 87

I made the switch back to 87 a month ago and my car is noticably faster although it runs alot rougher

this is b/c the engine is running lean, and lean is fast, and rich is slow, although eccessive "dogging" your car on 87 could lead to faster engine wear.

It will clog your injectors over time, but that is what injector cleaner is for

so it is up to you

AcuraGirl

so can somone actually explain the scientific explanation as to why a dirtier gas (87) is BETTER than a cleaner gas (92).

and who came up with that 92 vs 87 gives more whp. 92 is just a cleaner gas. the reason why they use 100+ octane on racing engines is because for combustion purposes and purity of gas. they dont want sh!t going through their engines.

its kinda like changing your oil. when you have clean (new) oil, your car has a greater likelyhood of running well compared to dirty oil. but when you change your oil, you wont feel any performance increase. the same goes with gas, you wont directly get any performance gains from higher octane, but the lower octane will clog and therefore hinder your performance, and fuel injector addatives are just little bandades to a bigger problem.

97CL2.2

I usually just let the gas attendant choose the type of gas for me... sometimes it's 87, sometimes it's 93... But if you do it this way, you have to make sure you don't go to the same guy twice in a row... That could screw up the mixture...

clac225

you do what???:sqnteek:

R1Performance

Glad to see some people still go by the "high number so it is better" and the "it is more expensive so it is better" creeds. With a static compression of 9.x:1 (of both the 2.2/3 and 3.0 motors), why would you ever need anything more than 87 octane? If you want to go by the detergent fuel argument, it doesn't make much sense in cleaning the fuel system with it when you only gain it back by the unburned fuel/carbon build up resulting from poor combustion. At least some people have the idea....

haiduc

the f22/23 compression is in the range of 8.8:1

it doesnt make sense to use higher octane unless you have mods that will significantly increase the compression (i.e. turbo, supercharger, nitrous, high compression pistons)

that is why all the fast cars tend to run the higher octane, not because it is cleaner, but because it is more resistant to burn.

Casper98CL

i'm guessing its your car mbuna... I have used 87 since the first daty i bought my 98 brand new and I have never had a problem with anything.. infact my car runs better on 87 than 94.... myabe your car needs a tube up and or internal cleaning... check into that!

hornyleprechaun

I've also read in previous threads the exact same thing ghander is saying...if our cars are made for 87 octane gas...why waste the extra $$$ on the 93 octane gas if it doesn't do the car any better...

CL'S

mbuna

I love how I get quoted as saying so much. 1st, where is the hard evidence 2.2 or 2.3s make more power on 87 octane? So far all I see from you opponents is anecdotal evidence from one Car & Driver test (hey I read their rag and love it, but come on lets see a 4-banger dynoed) and everyones basic knowledge of compression and burn rates. And I NEVER said higher octane is faster, I claimed their is no such thing as a clean regular no-lead. If 87 octane is clean at your local station, which it might be if its a Shell or Chevron or the like more power to you. But here in Texas all the local gas stations that aren't affiliated with a major oil company(and even some that are!) sell filthy, dirty brown gas. Seen it with my own two eyes when I get gas for my mower. Fill my car (or truck) with chevron 90 octane plus, it's clear. And I smoked a Civic last night, with three passengers in my ride.

Still one helluva lotta fun seeing everybody so pissed at a post!

ilike2cheez

iTrader: (2)

R1Performance

Keep burning the 93 octane, just don't forget to clean your injectors all the time.....at least the gas is clean as you say.

hornyleprechaun

pffft...this isn't being mad at a post...i've seen plenty worse...just wait as you go on in the months...you'll see some nasty ones..

CL'S

CLpower

it's not that 92 or whatever is a "CLEANER" gas, it's just a purer gas w/ a higher octane rating. We can't burn the higher octane gas fast enough or efficiently enough to make it beneficial. The lower octane won't clog, because we can burn it fast enough.

CLpower

don't know if anyone is pissed at all about this, what are you reading?




and wow, you smoked a civic w/ 3 people in your car, whats your point? Are you trying to say it's the gas?

CLpower

they will remain clueless won't they

Nugs3

I couldn't decide what to put in my car so now I just use 89 which is in between the 2. BTW I smoked a Dodge Caravan the other day!

joeshmoe

I smoked a J yesterday. I only use pure, clean butane and man, it help me smoke it faster than using higher grade zippo lighter fluid.

CLpower

i smoke a j everyday :p

mbuna

Hey guys who is going to explain to me why cleaner (or purer or whatever) leaves deposits on fuel injectors? I stated earlier that I never have to clean mine. Don't have hard starting problems, car feels more powerful now than when I bought it. On the other hand as I said before my Mom's newer Honda only has 87 run thru it and gets downright sluggish before I give it its regular 2-3k fuel injector cleaning. You even have to pump the throttle to get it to start before they are cleaned. This practical real world experience with real cars seems to refute what you all are saying. Octane pertains to burning (like in the cylinder) not to spraying (as in the fuel injectors). Unrefined petrochemical filth leads to deposits, not a higher flashpoint.