I guess what I don't get from decades of watching car shows and prototypes, is why anyone EXPECTS to get prototype wheels etc. That's why it's a prototype and not production. It's supposed to "tease".

 

I think the problem is the tease is generally a few years up the road from the production version to test reaction. In this case they were hyping the prototype just weeks before the official unveiling.

Smelled to much like bait & switch especially since the prototype IMHO was the home run everybody here was hoping for. The production is more like a solid double. Very poor marketing strategy by someone at Acura

 

I'm not even sure it's because it was too close. People already are used to the "prototype" from Acura being fairly close to the release in terms of looks (RLX, MDX...). The problem for me was, I thought the prototype was an awesome blend of aggressive looks without being so overboard, that, like the MDX and RLX prototypes, you just believed "that's what the real one is going to look like". The changes they implemented in the production version, however, really changed the vehicle's stance/personality/overall impression to me. It went from "aggressive" to borderline "mundane" - I didn't get this feeling from the MDX and RLX prototypes to their production versions. They essentially remained true to the prototypes with those cars.

 

Bingo on the bait & switch.

Acura is not the only company to do this switch-aroo. Subaru did the same thing with their new WRX; concept's exterior was aggressive and garnered much praise; final production product bland and meh.

Not a good tactic.

 

Concept cars aren't always teases. Look at the BMW i8. Literally a concept car that is now on real roads. They didn't change it from the concept.

 

I guess I'm the few who believed the car would never go to production in prototype form. Though, I like it, it has way too much wings and chrome - it was too aggressive and not classy enough to appealing to the average car buyers.

Not sure why people called this bait and switch since it was clear the car was a prototype and they actually showed the production version to the world shortly thereafter.

 

If you were following the threads before the release plenty of us were saying that the production TLX wouldn't look like the prototype. We were expecting Acura to stay on course with their past. Bullishly following their own direction rather than what people want and would work best. Most of our assumptions were right. Very little surprise with anything. BTW I also agree that it was a bit overstyled. The exact compromise should have been in between (with exhaust tips of course.)

The only thing that could surprise us at this point is a 6MT Type-S version.

 

Production cars generally always lose some bells & whistles, like mirrors or expensive to produce trim items etc, from the prototype but the TLX lost way more than might be expected.

Don't remember what the 2014 auto show dates were but it seemed like they rode the prototype in the show circuit right up to NYC show, including TV adds from the beginning of the year.

Have to think people who are not as close to things Acura, as those here, thought the prototype was the real deal or very close to it.

 

So it all comes back to what you expected. I said when the prototype debuted that the bumpers and rims (and mirrors) would not make it to production. Clearly, that's always the game plan for Acura.

From what I can see every piece of sheet metal (hood, front fenders, doors, rear quarter panel, roof and trunk) and glass has carried over from the prototype to production version. Is this not 80 to 90% of the exterior of the vehicle? So in the end, I see in production form exactly what i expected.

 

And it's funny you mention this, in the months leading up to the production car debut, I showed the prototype pictures too many of my "real" customers in our dealership. The first things out of their mouth were, "wow, that looks really good, will that scrape going into my driveway?"

 

If people really want this car, only the future can tell as the numbers will tell the story. We all know it will sell decently of course. But the question is why they didn't REALLY want to sell it? In another words it looks like another very predictable "Acura thing" is about to happen. It will sell more than the 4G but less than 3G. Would that give a good indication to Acura what people want? Why are they striving for mediocrity?

I'm not saying it should look more like the 3G, just that they should have executed this as a better package. The ES350 sells well. A lot of people want that. So what? Why does that have to be the TLX target? (Not saying it looks like a ES but it is clearly targeted at that market.) Why is that a bad thing? Well it is clearly a different customer. I'd think a traditional TL customer (i.e. 3GTL) wouldn't look twice at an ES350 even though they are technically competitors.

You may say Acura is smart, not everyone wants a sporty car. The 3-series sells well too doesn't it? A lot of people want to say non-enthusiasts don't want a more sporty option but how is it that BMW has figured out that a lot of them want them. More often than not the main reason people don't buy BMW is price, not because they are too sporty.

I think the sweet spot is right in the middle of these for most people. This is where the TLX should have been engineered and designed to fit in between. It sorta was where the 3G did fit in. Sorry to rehash that for the 1000th time but that was the direction they should have stayed on while keeping it fresh. It is "marketted" as if it is in that niche again, nice try, but we know this car is really on the softer side.

Why compete with Lexus? They execute their own niche very well and their customers are among the most loyal in the whole industry. BMW is easier to go after because they tend to have the perception of being less reliable and are overpriced. Acura should have leaned more in that direction or at least in the middle.

 

Based on what are you saying this car will sell fewer than the 3G? Based on what are you saying this car is mediocre?

According to you, what would be a better package?

How is this car not sporty enough for car buyers out there?

Why do you think the 3G sold so well? What is fundamentally different between the TLX and the 3G?

I see this car as a natural evolution of the 3G. I'm very optimistic about this car. It seems Acura has set the bar very high for themselves with this one. It's almost too big to fail for them. So far, all info I gathered about the TLX are positive. The only question mark is the driving.

 

How strange.

Some of the parts on the Canadian Launch Kit (notably the front end) look very different from the USDM Accessories Kit.

I'm very surprised they'd have spent the money on two completely different front end kits.

0_o

 

Regarding expectations, I did not think the prototype was the car but did think its the car they should have built.

Problem is its that last 10/20% that really makes this car a major winner. It will do well, its basically a nice car, but its in a much more crowded market place than the 3G or even the 4G was.

Time will tell how it all works out, will be an interesting case in auto marketing to watch.

 

nah...it's the same. Until I saw the facebook page, I had hopes too but seeing the pics confirmed its the same kit.

 

hehe I can see you're new here. I think I wrote volumes about all of what you asked over the last 4-5months, enough for a novel. I think I'll spare everyone from all that all over again.

Yes Acura has set the bar (I hope you mean expectations) high for sure. I never said it would fail. I don't know what you are reading into. I said it will sell decently. You say the info is positive? What I read over and over again is about how conservative they have gone this time around and less sporty. There isn't much excitement coming from anywhere except Acura. Is is essentially a mini-RLX. The RLX is a nice car. Not selling well. Why not? Hmmm.

Your statement that "it is almost too big to fail" really doesn't make sense to me. They said the same about the Titanic you know.

 

One of the subtle features I liked best about the prototype is that the front overhang was shorter. It had a more sporty snub nose look. It helped it look more balanced compared to the short rear overhang. On the production version it just doesn't look as good, I keep noticing it and I'm like meh. They could have at least kept the better proportions.

 

And of course if the wheelbase, hood and fenders are exactly the same, then the proportions are going to be the same. Best case, the nose of the prototype is an inch shorter due to a different bumper cap, worst case, it's exactly the same and the difference is only in the pictures.

 

The rest of the proportions are generally same. But indeed the front overhang is longer. Look back at our discussion threads before the release. We were talking about how the production version looked kinda disproportionate at certain angles. It was thought it was just an illusion or because of the large wheel size. Someone overlaid scaled pics from the side and it was shown that the dimensions of the prototype was shorter.

Of course most people won't notice. But now that I know what it could look like it's a disappointment. Look at that pic above. So much more tight and proportionate and looks better at different angles.

 

The question essentially is: Do you believe the prototype sheetmetal was made with production tooling? Or, did Acura make a "one off" TLX with a handmade hood and front fender assembly just to shorten the car's front end?

 

I never claim you said it would fail. I asked you why you said it was mediocre.

"What I read over and over again is about how conservative they have gone this time around and less sporty."

So your gripe is all about the look? How is it less sporty than, say, the 3G? Besides, people in forums are far from being representive of the overall target market, which includes women by the way.

What I meant by "too big to fail" is that Acura seemed to really give its all for this launch. Boat load of features, decent prices, introductory offer, large marketing budget. They seem to be really confident with this product, which is a good sign. I'm not claiming it will not fail but when you see the company put in the effort, this is a reason to be optimistic.

 

Not much difference to me, except the ground effects, which would not appeal to the masses.

Comparison pictures, with real cars and more similar angles.

 

No, they look just as busy and unwieldy in person as they do in the photos. Worse of all, in the photos, there is often greater color differentiation between the darker spokes and lighter spokes. In person, not so much...

 

The BIG difference is the FRONT and REAR bumpers (as none of the rest of the cars sheet metal is different) and that IS the biggest complaint here. NO one ever said they would appeal to the masses, BUT it sure wouldnt hurt to have them available for those that do and i highly doubt that they would hurt sales 1 bit if they were the standard bumpers.

 

Most concept cars are hand tooled one offs. They make the production version with the tooling of course. Look closely at the pics Dyson posted from the side. Not only are the bumpers different, past the C pillar everything is shorter too. The tail-lights are smaller in profile from the side edges.

These are subtle differences individually that no one would notice without side by side pics. But overall it adds up and gives the car a more "pushed to the edges" look. That is what IS noticeable.

 

where can I buy the concept model?

 

Maybe Robert Downey Jr. has one to sell you?

 

Yea, again I don't see the need to rehash what I've wrote so much about why this is mediocre and how this TLX is less sporty than a 3G.

There's basically 3 camps in this TLX forum. Those that really like it and will buy one. Those that hate it and think it's a flop. and those in the middle. I'm in that camp. I agree with what most of these people have been saying, that the car is "OK". There are some things to like, but others not so much. They could have done better because that is what is expected from the same company that has made some great cars. But "OK" is not good enough to make a $40k decision, there is plenty of competition out there, that's most likely the direction I will go. The company is confused, as always, to it's identity and direction. It is a boring, soft, "me too" safe design. Where is the passion? The charm? The ageless design? They have done this historically with the Legend, NSX, 3GTL etc. They stubbornly persisted and went forward with the minimized shield grill, no exhaust tips and hideous wheels.

But I'm sure you will still disagree and say this is just personal taste. True, some people have very distinct tastes that I don't understand. (4GTL, lol.) I dunno about you but if you pull up in a nice mint Legend, NSX or 3GTL you will see the reactions of people at stoplights and gas stations. Male, female, young and old. There IS a general consensus that is palpable. You just aren't gonna get that in forgettable cars like the 1GTL/RL.

You say they put so much into this launch, yes, they have to. They are nearly desperate to keep their jobs. The sedan segment is struggling at Acura, this is supposed to be their savior. So they are hyping it up with the "red carpet athlete" and "thrill" nonsense which you are free to believe if you want. This is a softened Lexus-like vehicle. Not a bad thing, it will sell. But it could have sold better. The 3G was much more in line from a "Honda" direction of offering much more of a sport luxury sedan. With the TLX, they are going to lose traditional Acura customers including non-enthusiasts. In my experience the women I know don't drive as aggressive as the guys do. But they still want some sportiness in their car. They want it to look fast.

But ya we beat this horse to death, this has all been said. Life goes on, the car has been launched.

TLX; tada! Yawn.

 

Are there reviews/road tests out there that show this TLX drives like a ES350?

 

^ none that I've seen, although some in this thread sound like they've already driven it

 

Let's agree to disagree. If those were standard bumpers, there is a risk of the car looking too aggressive and too sporty, not classy or refined enough to the many consumers out there, to women for example -- that would mean hurting sales.

Sure, I would love that they offer them as an option too. But it's likely ROI or business call for not making them. These are entire bumpers, not just an add-on kit, which are much more expensive to produce. If demand is low, production cost would be even higher.

 

What I'm trying to understand is: why do you think this is just an OK car. Nobody here has driven one and nobody has read a review about it yet. I don't think it's fair to conclude that it is an OK car just based on looks. Or, are you saying the price is not decent or that the feature set is lacking?

Also, I'm puzzled that you like the 3GTL but don't like this one. I see a lot of 3GTL inspiration in this car's design. (I don't like the 4GTL by the way.)

And by the way, I'm interested in these discussions because someone who doesn't like the car might happen to point out a negative aspect that I might have missed but that is important to me. That is all. But so far, that hasn't happened. So far, it's about the looks and that, as we can all agree on, is very subjective.

 

lol that's what I thought!

 

Send a money transfer to me by way of the Nigerian Finance minister & I will get you one of the 10 in a secret warehouse at Lake Groom NV

 

It is true that I am making an assumption about how it drives and maybe it doesn't sound like it is fair. I have been posting in the TLX section since March and really, I wish I can take back anything I said. A lot of people had hopes up, I didn't. It was all pretty predictable. So far I have yet to be surprised. That is why I am making my presumptions. I drove an ILX last year and an RLX this year. The ILX DID actually impress me, and that is because it was a 6MT. Yes I haven't driven the TLX but that is where my presumptions are coming from. I am sure it will be "nice" and that's all. If I am wrong I promise I will eat my words.

My 3GTL is 8yrs old. No exaggeration, I look back in pride EVERY time I park it, I am so thankful and I don't get bored of this car for a second. Best car I've owned. If I bought a TLX I'm pretty sure it would bore me to death.

Drove a Jag F-type, 2-series. THOSE blew me away. Yes I am speaking as an enthusiast and this car clearly doesn't want to cater to the enthusiast crowd like it used to (Type-S with quads, carbon fiber interior, 6MT, Brembo calipers, A-Spec) Those days are gone. The afterthought "bodykit" they are offering for the TLX is pathetic. I think this is the first TL platform car that I haven't seen them brag about VTEC this and VTEC that. lol.

It think the greatest advancement in this model is the clear improvement of finish and materials on the interior. It is definitely a clear step upscale. To me that is my favorite part.

The one area Acura has stayed consistent in is keeping cutting edge tech and charging less than the German cars. That is their best strength.

OK nobody throw tomatoes. I know that everything I've just said I've said before.

I don't think you missed anything Dyson. Just difference in opinions that's all. You like it, someone else hates it. Me? Meh. I feel as if you think I am the only one saying this? I'm pretty sure I am in the camp that is biggest of all.

You can say the general public will accept the car better than AZine. Here is something funny though. Non-enthusiasts are raving about "Hey did you hear about/see the new Corvette?!? OMG!" or "new Jaguar sports car!" or the "new tiny 2 series!" See people are buzzing about these. Or how about even more normal average Joe cars. The new Fusion, Optima and Accord has gotten quite a lot of buzz.

But if I mention "TLX" they are like "Huh, wha? What's that? TSX?" Some have seen the commercial and don't even pay attention. This car just has just not made a splash on the general public. Besides here on AZine I have not heard a single person bring it up. I am the one bringing it up and telling them to check it out. Whenever they do they react the same way I do. "Meh." lol.

 

^^^^
Acura being a stealth brand has always been a problem even when they were selling 60/70K TL's a year. Brought my TL home & at least 3 members of my family, who have been exposed to a lot of cars over the years, asked either what is an Acura or what is it equivalent too.

As for the styling its a personal thing. I like it a lot better than the 4G believe it will sell pretty well but think it missed on what it could have been.

If Honda was serious about building a sports sedan I think they should have run a separate line like most of the other players. Their was some talk about a sports group back earlier in the year but nothing since then.

Proof will be in the driving on how it will perform but on paper its does not seem to be competitive with the other cars it wants to compete with.

 

Rocky, as much as I didn't like the styling of the 4G, I think we should give credit to Acura for offering SHAWD + 6MT. IMHO, Acura didn't stop catering to the enthusiast crowd with the 3G. For what it's worth, I remember all the criticism the 3G / Type-S took for being a "boy racer" & underpowered compared to the competition as well as being a nose heavy FWD sedan. I agree with a lot of your points and it gives the company to wrong some rights at MMC.

 

that is a great combo. 6MT+SHAWD. just need to get the weight down a little.

 

Agree weight has been an issue but think the new car has shed some pounds. Biggest performance issue is the V6 engine has no torque. Be interesting to see if the gearing can cover the hole.

 

It all comes down to expectations. I don't think people should be expecting the TLX to cater to enthusiasts. Even before its unveiling, I was pretty sure it would be a car meant to capture a very wide audience; it replaces the TSX and TL after all. The 3GTL wasn't for enthusiasts either in my opinion. If you look at the vanilla 3GTL, it was relatively bland too to the enthusiasts (though I like it), when not sporting the A-Spec kit. The Type-S was pre-SH-AWD days. The 4GTL didn't have Type-S but had the SH-AWD option instead. So, people shouldn't be expecting a Type-S for the TLX and be disappointed that Acura doesn't offer it. Yes, the Type-S days are likely gone.

The "general public" rave about the Corvettes, the Jags and the exotic cars they dream about. But what they dream about and what they actually end up buying are often very different because they have real priorities and limitations in the real world. We don't know if they will buzz about the TLX -- it's still very very early. Also, it is an entirely new car with a new name. So of course, most non-enthusiasts have no idea what the TLX is about. Accord, Optima and Fusion have been around for quite some time now and have become household names. The context is completely different and cannot be compared.