TL is teh suck in snow.
Picking up GF's nephew from school last year and we had to turn off traction control, peel out of their parking lot...

 

For the OP, I live in Fairfax County and I've never put winter tyres on the car. I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's on it now (2004 TL); I previously had Pirelli PZero Nero M&S's and before that the stock Bridgestone Turanza EL42s that came on the 2004 TL. The Bridgestones were crap in the snow and in heavy rain. The Pirellis were perfectly adequate in the typical DC-area winter. They didn't do so well on a ski trip to Mont-Tremblant in January 2006 when we got 25 cm of snow dumped on us in one day—I had to be really careful about where I parked and which roads I selected because of the risk of getting stuck on hills. (The Canadians were ridiculing me for my "summer tyres," although when I pointed out how winter tyres are a waste in the DC area they conceded the point.) Last winter with the massive snow dumps I did all right with the Michelins I have on the car now. I drove downtown on February 7 to go to the Capitals–Pittsburgh game. I-395 was covered in hard-packed snow but the car did fine as long as I kept the speed to a reasonable level (I stuck to about 35 mph or so).

Ms1995hoo took the picture below from the passenger seat on our way to that Caps game. The car did perfectly well in these conditions. Note that this was in between the two big February snow dumps. If you're in Northern Virginia I assume you recognize where this was.



This picture below is of the car park at the condo where we stayed at Mont-Tremblant in 2006. This was two days after the 25 cm snow dump. The car park was unpaved. I got stuck three times in the area up to the right on the day we got the big snow. Once the management had plowed things out, I did fine on the all-season Pirellis, though I did not go back up that hill to the right again because it was the last area they plowed and I didn't want to risk getting stuck a second time.



The picture below was also taken in January 2006 at the base of the Versant Nord at Tremblant (the far side of the mountain from where the village is). We drove around there one day when we weren't skiing and I decided to try to turn a donut on the packed snow because there was enough room to bail if I skidded. The car did NOT slide, and I was unable to push it to see when it would have slid because Ms1995hoo was decidedly displeased at the one donut I did turn. BTW, that's not snow reflected in the paint; it's all gunk that got kicked up all over the side of the car.



My general suggestion to TL owners over the years has been that if you live in an area where the use of winter tyres is the norm, then you should get them for your TL. Ditto if you will frequently travel to an area where the use of winter tyres is the norm. That need not mean a snowy area, either; winter tyres are often recommended for areas where the temperature is consistently well below freezing for long periods.

But the all-season tyres are fine in an area like DC for 95% of our winters. We have such wildly fluctuating temperatures here and it's hardly unusual for the temperature to be in the single digits Fahrenheit one week and in the high 50s Fahrenheit a week later (hell, I remember the time when it was 75°F a day or two after New Year's and then 5°F the following Friday). We also get a lot less snow than we used to get back in the late 1970s/early 1980s. The all-season tyres seem to do fine on fresh powder and smaller storms (5 cm dusting, things like that) as long as it's not a massive dump of heavy wet snow all coming at once. The key is to recognize the limits of the all-season tyres and to drive accordingly (as well as the car's limitations in heavier snow), to think ahead in terms of how to approach driving in any given situation (which you should do in the snow anyway), and to recognize that 95% of the people on the roads in the DC area are a bunch of absolute fucking morons who should be assumed to have no fucking clue what to do as soon as a single snowflake falls (especially the SUV drivers). Consider the idiot driving that black car shown in the left lane in the first picture up above. He ought to be in the middle lane so as to have room on both sides if he has a problem. (Plus when we passed the Pentagon up ahead someone had lost control and skidded into the jersey wall on the left. That guy narrowly missed crashing into the stopped car.)

 

Wow, I've had my TL for about 2 seasons now and I've ran General Exclaims UHP Summer tires all year around. The first winter it wasn't so bad and I had pretty bald tires. The second season I changed to my 3rd set of General Exclaims UHP summer tires in mid January and they still handled fine. I live in NJ and the winters here can get pretty bad especially with a 80 mile round trip commute. But I don't want to push my luck any further so this season I plan on getting myself a couple of snow tires on the stocks. Quick question: What does studdable mean on the General Altimax Arctic? Also, is there a difference between Performance snow and studdless Ice and snow? and if so, which is better?

 

It means that studs can be put on the tyre if needed. Studs are not legal in all jurisdictions. If you live in New Jersey, you are HIGHLY UNLIKELY ever to need studs.

 

I've had great luck with my TL so far. I get a lot more ice than snow, so I'm looking into better tires for that, but it's mostly for piece of mind.

 

So the skies finally dumped on us here in Toronto and I'm happy to report that the Continental Winter Extreme Contacts are AMAZING! It drove like I was on dry pave. I tried slamming the brakes a few times (with no one around obviously) and the ABS didn't even kick in, the car just halted to a stop from 70kph.

 

Yeah, roads up here have been so bad in the last couple days.

Just went out driving to work yesterday and my tires kept slipping.

I was stuck driving around the parking lot for a few seconds. Damn people don't plow their lots.

These are brand new Blizzak LM-60s too.
That's how much snow we have up here =P

 

I heard it was a lot worse up north than it was down in the city. It's not until the first day of snow that you see how bad drivers are here in Toronto.

I was drving my bus on Don Mills and all was well until there was just a sprinkle of snow. And then all of a sudden there were 4 accidents along the route 10 mins later. It's like people have never seen snow here before.

 

Performance winter tires are slightly worse in snow than regular snow tires but much better on dry. I would recommend performance winter tires over regular ones if you do a lot of highway driving. Performance winter tires are usually more expensive.

 

Yup, I'm up north, an hour north of Barrie.

Around two hours north of Toronto.

Snow here is crazy.
I should take pictures.

All those people that say our cars are beast in the winter, havn't seen the "winter" up here.

I've had my VSA indicator come on a few times just driving home from work.

I'm driving like 30km/h (18 miles) too on a 50km road.

That's how much buildup of snow there are on some roads.

 

Correct. Regardless, your car will ride harsher on winter tires and will be noticeably louder. Not too much of a surprise given the kind of tread, but their snow performance is much worth the compromise. Gives you an excuse to have ultra-smooth and quiet summer tires though.

 

I've driven through a horrible winter in my older 05 TL Auto. It was actually pretty good in the snow. All the people saying it's bad in the snow. Learn to get good winter tires or all seasons. I had some Michelin Pilot Sport AS PLUS. And I gotta say I did fine in about a foot+ of snow. You just need to learn how to drive it correctly and it will be fine.

So get good winter tires would be my recommendation. And learn to drive it in the snow.

As for my TL-S being manual and all, it's hard not to spin the tires and we had a recent mix lately and it didnt do too well. But I know it's because I have summer tires.

 

My mercedes got stuck

My Ford Taurus got stuck

but the TL i went out everyday in last years blizzard and didnt get stuck once had the Michelin pilot sport all season

 

Amen. NTICED you got those good Michelin Pilot sport all seasons. They work great for an opt for winter tires and still give good performance.

 

performance in the snow is a function of the following:
tire - size of wheel, softness, tread depth and pattern
weight of car
power of car - less powerful is better
fwd/rwd/awd - fwd and awd are better. awd only helps to get started if front wheels stuck.
traction control - i can only say it can be good or bad in various situations.

ideal snow car is a tiny lightweight car with small wheels, low power, good snow tires and awd.
the tl has weight and high power going against it. to counter both you need extreme patience and a very light foot. no sudden brakes or accel.

 

Yup!

Blizzak LM-60s that costed me $1370 CAD + driving slow as shit = all good in the snow.

 

Oh yes, I know those roads all too well. Thank you for the info. I am not so worried now about normal day driving, but I play in a band on weekend nights and we all know that plows and stuff really don't work too much on nights as it snows... so those will be long drives home I guess.... uugghhh..

 

they handle alright in the snow, but i think the main thing that determines handling is the tire that the car is using. i am using conti dws and its been doing pretty well, although i still have to drive slow, and brake smart otherwise the abs kicks in

 

So the IS250 AWD should be a good snow car then?


A heavy car is both good & bad in the winter. Weight will push a car down through the snow so that the tires make better contact with the pavement. However, weight also makes it more difficult to slow the car down or to turn its direction.

FWD cars have the benefit of having most of the engine weight right above the front wheels.

For a RWD car, being light is a nightmare unless the car is mid or rear engine with most of the weight in the rear. When all the weight is in the front and the power goes to the rear, it makes it very difficult to accelerate without spinning wheels and fishtailing.

 

Driving in snow/ice isn't about whether or not you get stuck, it's about being able to brake and steer. Think about it, if you're stuck you're not moving so at least you won't hit anything, no big deal. Not being able to stop or steer is much worse. That's where winter tires make the biggest difference compared to all seasons.

 

probably better than the TL, I'm talking more like a tiny hatchback or civic though. 250 is still pretty sporty with regular sized wheels.


That would only apply to light snow conditions. In heavy snow, nothing is touching the pavement and heavier cars magnify every little movement, especially when they have lots of power. Its like trying to navigate a cruise ship to a dock under full power. fwd vs rwd is as simple as pushing vs pulling. if the tires lose traction in fwd it continues in a straight line, if they lose traction in a rwd the front slides in any direction amplified by the rear pushing.

 

I have had mine 2006 since the beginning. First season I kep my stock wheel and the Michelin MxMx tires (they sucked). Second season I splurged and got 4 steel rims (16 vs 17 for the original wheels). I also bought the Bridgeston Blizak's. These tires are speed rate and quite fun actually.

Good luck

 

well said

 

really?? Of course its about getting stuck. Its about both driving and getting stuck. I dont want problems with EITHER of them. It might be ok for some of you to be stranded somewhere, out of cell phone range or if theres an emergency and you need to get somewhere, or you're incapacitated in the middle of a road, but not me.

 

I agree. Sure its possible to drive on all-seasons in the snow, but snow tires just make it much easier and a little less stressful. Not having to take turns at <10mph when there's more than an inch of snow on the ground is nice. Braking was my biggest concern.

I think he just meant that people's primary reason for getting winter tires is for handling reasons. Of course getting stuck is something to worry about.

 

I'm not worried about my driving or my car.

It's the OTHER drivers, I worry about.

 

Well, they kinda go hand in hand. The properties for a good snow tire (softness + tread pattern) lend themselves to both driving in the snow and preventing you from getting stuck in the snow. The point is even a little moot, if you're stuck somewhere and your tires cant get you out, you wont be driving anyway so it doesnt matter how they handle...

 

My 07' Type S has the stock Michelins on, and it's not very good in the snow. I have set of snow tires and rims coming tomorrow, should help out quite a bit!

 

hmmm I narrowed my choices down to Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 (which the guy at the tire shop said was the best for the spirited driver), Pirelli Winter 210 Sottozero,Michelin X-Ice Xi2, Continental ExtremeWinterContact. However, I have driven on my brother's BMW 330ci with Dunlop snow tires and they were pretty decent. However, his traction control did do a fair amount of work.

 

I honestly cannot recommend the Dunlops enough. Traction control kicking in at some point is almost bound to happen when driving in a couple of inches of snow, the fact that your brother's 330ci is RWD also is a factor. Today I saw the VSA light maybe 3-4 times if that, even then, it was for a brief second. I've heard only good things about Bliazzacks and the Dunlop Winterspots.

Here's a fun pic I just took when I got home.

 

He recommended the Dunlop Wintersport M3's however they only offer them in a 215/45/17. Would it be safe going down from 235? The only thing that worries about the Dunlops is the sidewalls bubbling. However, I do hear Bridgestones' are also prone to the same issue?

 

^ No. If you vary from the OEM size at all you should do 245/45-17. I got the Conti DWS in a 245 and am very happy. They did very well in very light snow but extremely slick conditions.

 

Just made a trip from Nashville to Chicago Sun afternoon through the wind,snow, ice and I could not have been more confident in the TL.
General Exclaim UHP on stock wheels. Felt stable in the crazy wind and snow up I-57 through IL. State troopers closed I57 at about 730pm Sun night in Matoon,IL due to a large pileup but I was safe and sound thanks to the 4 x 4 option my TL has.

 

To the OP, I'm running the stock all-season Michelins for now. In Iowa we just got our first snowstorm of the season last weekend (for the central part of the state anyway!) and so far, so good. Ice is ice and short of studded tires I don't know that I've ever driven a confidence-inspiring vehicle on ice. That being said, I have been pleasantly surprised at this car's relative stability and control compared to previous cars such as my dearly departed 98 Civic and prior 2002 Accord 4-cyl.

It's heavy, and as such stopping it is what concerns me most of all. We have an 05 Odyssey that has traction control and ABS, and it's fantastic in the snow and ice. I've noticed, though, that the traction control is more willing to intervene on the van than it is in the TL. This could just be a function of speed/weight/road conditions, but my subjective opinion is that the TL is a little more lax on its willingness to kick in. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it could be that it's so transparent that I don't notice. Whatever the case, I'm comfortable driving it in the snow; for me, the mental hurdle was probably the largest because I really don't want anything bad to happen to it.

Just to put things in perspective, during the storm I was thinking about my alternative options if money wasn't an issue. Some of my primary thoughts went to either AWD or 4WD vehicles, all of which I saw in the ditch on the interstate. Then I noticed people driving around town in 1986 Rust-Bucket Specials with 12-inch steelies and wafer-thin tires just blasting through the snow like it was nothing. AWD BMW 3-series cars, CUVs, SUVs, Trucks...all of them could be seen having a hard time. Seemed like the lighter FWD cars with skinny tires did just as good as anything. Go figure! Don't need to be rich after all!

Not like we have skinny tires or light weight in our favor, but in the end, I don't think we're really all that bad off as long as our cars are wearing the right rubber...just like everyone else has said.

It's pretty early and we have a lot more winter to go in the Midwest. I'm guessing by this time next year I'll have a new set of Conti DWS tires on, and I fully anticipate that they'll do wonders. For now, my budget is pushing me to give the stock tires a chance to prove their value. I think there is enough testimony in here to say that you can get through your normal day-to-day in a TL with stock all-season tires; just drive carefully.

 

That's false. I have 235/45/17s on my car. Ordered via Tirerack.com.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

 

To add to this thread topic...

I have 04 TL 6MT with Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 235/45 R17 tires. Came with vehicle when purchased (used). This is my first winter with the TL in Michigan and temps have been between 0-10 F lately. Car has been great. I have far more driving confidence in it than my previous 91 Accord DX 5MT with no ABS or traction control. Having the 6MT on the TL allows me to control RPMs which is an added benefit.

I plan to replace these tires with Continental ExtremeContact DWS all-season when they get used up. Based on my research they should perform similarly in winter to the Blizzaks.

 

Aren't LM-60's recent?

I thought they were, maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't think about replacing them anytime soon if they're recent lol

 

I just got the General Altimax Arctics put on my car and they perform very well. I don't have any other snow tires to compare them to though and I've only driven in hard packed snow and slush but they seem good. They felt really mushy on the highway but I upped the tire pressure to 40 and they're better but still soft. Road noise is increased but not terribly. I guess that's the trade off. The tires they replaced were Bridgestone RE 960A/S which were not very good in the snow but they were great in the wet/dry conditions. In fairness to the Bridgestones they were close to the wear bars. Anyway, I ordered them from Tire Rack in the morning and arrived the following day. I'm probably going to be in the market for some aftermarket rims come spring.

 

don't ever drive it with out winter tire

 

+ 2,3,4,5!!! those are horrible!!

Cant go wrong with Falkens 912 all season! Just had bout 3in yest and she did great! Last yr had bout 24in! after all was said and done, she still did pretty good.

http://www.falkentire.com/Tires/Ziex-ZE-912-2