Watch out 1st gen owners: ATF Leak at Radiator can cause your AT to fail
02-26-2013, 11:07 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Watch out 1st gen owners: ATF Leak at Radiator can cause your AT to fail
Wow, I own a TL and don't get into this forum a whole lot. I did a search and didn't see anything along these lines so I thought I would pass on this information to you all.
I do own a 2005 Pilot and my Wife had an 'issue' today with its transmission that involved a massive leak coming out of a hose fitting that should attach to the radiator for cooling the ATF. Mass quantities of ATF on the driveway and of coarse the vehicle stopped moving.
I'll get the Pilot towed tomorrow but thought I would pass this along to any 1st gen MDX owners. Apparently this problem also happens to them as well. In searching at Piloteers.org, I found a posting at MDXers.org that has a full writeup on replacing the radiator and stuff.
I have done all the preventive stuff for the Pilot: frequent ATF changes, 3/4 pressure sensors, redlline ATF. Little did I know there is still another problem lurking which is the radiator. I really hope that it's a simple replace of radiator and refill of ATF and not a complete AT replacement. From the posts on the other forum, most people are back in operation with no issues to transmission.
I'll repost here for your benefit:
======================
Courtesy of Dan596:
I just did mine a couple of weeks ago. As mentioned in my previous post, I smelled a leak first. Upon diagnose and confirmation after removal, the cause of my leak was a complete failure/rusting out of the inlet/outlet fittings for the transmission coolant lines. Fortunately, it was just coolant fluid leaking around the fitting and no evidence of the transmission fluid leaking or mixing with coolant.
Sorry, I didn't take any pictures but I have the shop manual. If you PM me I'll see about scanning and sending the pages. I did this on an '04 with 147k Northeast miles on it. Here are some of my helpful hints:
Required parts and Tools:
Radiator : Best deal I found on the radiator was at radiatorexpress.com. Original had plastic housing, and replacement was of same quality. There was a question of replacement not being same thickness. I called a couple of places about this and it appears to be a normal change in the design and was explained by increased density.
Hoses: Plan to replace both Coolant hoses (2 large), and transmission coolant lines (3 small diameter). I found oemacuraparts.com a great place to look up the parts I needed to order.
Clamps : I ended up getting a set of clamps for each hose as well. Most of the existing clamps were in good shape, a couple had some rust, but having the new clamps made life easier. I ended up getting hoses and clamps at local part store.
Transmission cooler hard line : Across the bottom of the radiator there is a hardline between two rubber lines for the transmission cooling. Mine was in good shape so I didn’t need to replace it. Check yours. I did brush off some rust from the mounting points and coat it with rust arrestor.
Penetrating Lubricant : Many of the nuts/bolts on my MDX were severely rusted. After snapping a couple I got out the lube to see if I could free the rest up. It worked for most.
Hardware : Many of the nuts/bolts on my MDX were severely rusted. Most are 6x1.0mm I got a bunch of bolts and washers.
Plastic Trim Clips : If you have ever done an oil change you know the pieces I’m talking about that hold on the belly pan. You will encounter more of these removing the bumper cover and radiator cover. If you break one, you will want to replace it.
Replacement Coolant.
Transmission Fluid.
Tools : assorted 10mm sockets, a trim clip removal tool, large strong pliers, Phillips and flat head screwdrivers, drain pan, long funnel (for filling transmission)
Extra Tools : I ended up snapping a couple of bolts. Unfortunately these were into frame welded nuts. I tried extracting them (i.e. require extraction set). I was not completely successful so in one instance I just drilled it out (i.e. need drill and bit set), and replacement with a bolt, nut, and lock washer.
Aside from the snapped bolts, the job went pretty easily. Here is a summary of the steps from the OEM shop manual with my notes:
Procedure:
1. Disconnect and remove battery (make sure you have your radio codes)
2. Disconnect battery harness clamps. You will want the freedom to move those around.
3. Remove battery tray (4 bolts, 10mm socket)
4. Remove Radiator cover (plastic fairing piece above radiator held on with plastic clips.)
5. Remove bumper cover (This is not in the shop manual, however I found it a huge piece of mind to have this out of the way. It comes off surprisingly easy.
a. Remove bolts securing corner under spoilers (2 each side), cover, and wheel well liner together at each corner underside of cover.
b. Remove screws securing top corner of cover where it meets fender at wheel well. (1 each side)
c. Remove plastic clips along top edge and respectively bottom edge of cover (2 top, 2 bottom)
d. I did it by myself but help is recommended. Pull cover as complete unit back from vehicle , releasing it from clips found lined at edge underneath headlights.
e. Disconnect fog lights.
6. Disconnect wire harness along top of fan housing. There are 4 connections and 4 mounting clips. You will need to free them all and secure harness aside.
7. Disconnect Engine mount solenoid. Behind hood latch there is an additional electrical connection to be disconnected.
8. Unbolt ground strap from frame above radiator, and secure aside.
9. Disconnect vacuum hoses from Engine mount solenoid. They connect in same area as #7
10. Drain radiator and then remove upper hose.
11. Remove bulkhead bracket. This runs from frame above fans, between the fans down to lower frame. The hood latch mounts to this bracket. You do not need to remove the hood latch, just disconnect the cable. There are 3 bolts top, and one bottom all requiring 10mm socket. This is the first stop I ran into rusty bolts and snapped one so use your lubricant to free up bolts.
Hint : Next you are going to remove the fans. Several of these bolts were rusted so use your penetrating lube. Take care in removing them that you don’t damage the fan housing tabs. However, the nuts are secured in tabs on the radiator housing and those you can hack.
12. Remove the two bolts holding radiator fan housing (fan on driver side), both are top side. The bottom is held in by pins molded into the housing that sit slots that just lift out. 10mm socket
13. Remove radiator fan by lifting out and exiting via battery cavity.
14. Remove the two bolts holding condenser fan housing top (fan on passenger side). . 10mm socket
15. Loosen the two bolts securing the bottom of the condenser fan. Best done from underside.. These only need to be loosened because the fan housing has slotted grooves that just sit on these bolts. If memory serves, these mount into the radiator (which you are replacing) so snapping is not a big deal.
16. Remove lower radiator hose (prepare to catch some coolant fluid).
17. Disconnect transmission lines and clamp/seal off. (prepare to catch some tranny fluid) You don’t have to remove the transmission cooling hardline mounted to the radiator at this point.
18. Remove Radiator upper brackets. There are 4 of them. Two for the A/C condenser, and two for the radiator. Again, here is another spot to be cautious and use the penetrating lubricant as these bolts were all in various states of rust and they bolt into the frame. There is six bolts total. 10 mm socket.
19. Remove fan by lifting out. The bottom sets into rubber bushing, one each side, which may or may not come out with radiator. Be sure to keep track of these as they are needed to installed new one.
20. Remove tranny cooler hardline from radiator if reusing to install on new radiator.
21. Replace the 3 rubber tranny cooling lines. One connects between hardline and radiator. The other two should replace the ones you clamped off in engine bay. It is easier to replace the transmission lines at this point while the radiator is out.
Removal done. Install in reverse order. Note
Final notes :
a. The only hardware typically provided are the nuts that set into the radiator housing for mounting the fans. Note that all other hardware will need to be reused or replaced.
b. Be sure to check your tranny fluid level a few times once warmed up.
c. Draining coolant : I only drained it from the radiator. There is a drain bolt located on the rear of the engine. I don’t know how much comes out of there but seeing as I done regular cooling fluid change I was worried about getting it all out.
d. Filling coolant : the procedure is pretty extensive requiring running for several minutes turning on A/C, then turning on heater, then running rear heater…..running for several minutes and checking level at each step. This is all to get the air out of the system. Given I didn’t drain the block and the resulting heater lines I was successful just filling radiator and overflow appropriately, running until fan came on and checking level.
I do own a 2005 Pilot and my Wife had an 'issue' today with its transmission that involved a massive leak coming out of a hose fitting that should attach to the radiator for cooling the ATF. Mass quantities of ATF on the driveway and of coarse the vehicle stopped moving.
I'll get the Pilot towed tomorrow but thought I would pass this along to any 1st gen MDX owners. Apparently this problem also happens to them as well. In searching at Piloteers.org, I found a posting at MDXers.org that has a full writeup on replacing the radiator and stuff.
I have done all the preventive stuff for the Pilot: frequent ATF changes, 3/4 pressure sensors, redlline ATF. Little did I know there is still another problem lurking which is the radiator. I really hope that it's a simple replace of radiator and refill of ATF and not a complete AT replacement. From the posts on the other forum, most people are back in operation with no issues to transmission.
I'll repost here for your benefit:
======================
Courtesy of Dan596:
I just did mine a couple of weeks ago. As mentioned in my previous post, I smelled a leak first. Upon diagnose and confirmation after removal, the cause of my leak was a complete failure/rusting out of the inlet/outlet fittings for the transmission coolant lines. Fortunately, it was just coolant fluid leaking around the fitting and no evidence of the transmission fluid leaking or mixing with coolant.
Sorry, I didn't take any pictures but I have the shop manual. If you PM me I'll see about scanning and sending the pages. I did this on an '04 with 147k Northeast miles on it. Here are some of my helpful hints:
Required parts and Tools:
Radiator : Best deal I found on the radiator was at radiatorexpress.com. Original had plastic housing, and replacement was of same quality. There was a question of replacement not being same thickness. I called a couple of places about this and it appears to be a normal change in the design and was explained by increased density.
Hoses: Plan to replace both Coolant hoses (2 large), and transmission coolant lines (3 small diameter). I found oemacuraparts.com a great place to look up the parts I needed to order.
Clamps : I ended up getting a set of clamps for each hose as well. Most of the existing clamps were in good shape, a couple had some rust, but having the new clamps made life easier. I ended up getting hoses and clamps at local part store.
Transmission cooler hard line : Across the bottom of the radiator there is a hardline between two rubber lines for the transmission cooling. Mine was in good shape so I didn’t need to replace it. Check yours. I did brush off some rust from the mounting points and coat it with rust arrestor.
Penetrating Lubricant : Many of the nuts/bolts on my MDX were severely rusted. After snapping a couple I got out the lube to see if I could free the rest up. It worked for most.
Hardware : Many of the nuts/bolts on my MDX were severely rusted. Most are 6x1.0mm I got a bunch of bolts and washers.
Plastic Trim Clips : If you have ever done an oil change you know the pieces I’m talking about that hold on the belly pan. You will encounter more of these removing the bumper cover and radiator cover. If you break one, you will want to replace it.
Replacement Coolant.
Transmission Fluid.
Tools : assorted 10mm sockets, a trim clip removal tool, large strong pliers, Phillips and flat head screwdrivers, drain pan, long funnel (for filling transmission)
Extra Tools : I ended up snapping a couple of bolts. Unfortunately these were into frame welded nuts. I tried extracting them (i.e. require extraction set). I was not completely successful so in one instance I just drilled it out (i.e. need drill and bit set), and replacement with a bolt, nut, and lock washer.
Aside from the snapped bolts, the job went pretty easily. Here is a summary of the steps from the OEM shop manual with my notes:
Procedure:
1. Disconnect and remove battery (make sure you have your radio codes)
2. Disconnect battery harness clamps. You will want the freedom to move those around.
3. Remove battery tray (4 bolts, 10mm socket)
4. Remove Radiator cover (plastic fairing piece above radiator held on with plastic clips.)
5. Remove bumper cover (This is not in the shop manual, however I found it a huge piece of mind to have this out of the way. It comes off surprisingly easy.
a. Remove bolts securing corner under spoilers (2 each side), cover, and wheel well liner together at each corner underside of cover.
b. Remove screws securing top corner of cover where it meets fender at wheel well. (1 each side)
c. Remove plastic clips along top edge and respectively bottom edge of cover (2 top, 2 bottom)
d. I did it by myself but help is recommended. Pull cover as complete unit back from vehicle , releasing it from clips found lined at edge underneath headlights.
e. Disconnect fog lights.
6. Disconnect wire harness along top of fan housing. There are 4 connections and 4 mounting clips. You will need to free them all and secure harness aside.
7. Disconnect Engine mount solenoid. Behind hood latch there is an additional electrical connection to be disconnected.
8. Unbolt ground strap from frame above radiator, and secure aside.
9. Disconnect vacuum hoses from Engine mount solenoid. They connect in same area as #7
10. Drain radiator and then remove upper hose.
11. Remove bulkhead bracket. This runs from frame above fans, between the fans down to lower frame. The hood latch mounts to this bracket. You do not need to remove the hood latch, just disconnect the cable. There are 3 bolts top, and one bottom all requiring 10mm socket. This is the first stop I ran into rusty bolts and snapped one so use your lubricant to free up bolts.
Hint : Next you are going to remove the fans. Several of these bolts were rusted so use your penetrating lube. Take care in removing them that you don’t damage the fan housing tabs. However, the nuts are secured in tabs on the radiator housing and those you can hack.
12. Remove the two bolts holding radiator fan housing (fan on driver side), both are top side. The bottom is held in by pins molded into the housing that sit slots that just lift out. 10mm socket
13. Remove radiator fan by lifting out and exiting via battery cavity.
14. Remove the two bolts holding condenser fan housing top (fan on passenger side). . 10mm socket
15. Loosen the two bolts securing the bottom of the condenser fan. Best done from underside.. These only need to be loosened because the fan housing has slotted grooves that just sit on these bolts. If memory serves, these mount into the radiator (which you are replacing) so snapping is not a big deal.
16. Remove lower radiator hose (prepare to catch some coolant fluid).
17. Disconnect transmission lines and clamp/seal off. (prepare to catch some tranny fluid) You don’t have to remove the transmission cooling hardline mounted to the radiator at this point.
18. Remove Radiator upper brackets. There are 4 of them. Two for the A/C condenser, and two for the radiator. Again, here is another spot to be cautious and use the penetrating lubricant as these bolts were all in various states of rust and they bolt into the frame. There is six bolts total. 10 mm socket.
19. Remove fan by lifting out. The bottom sets into rubber bushing, one each side, which may or may not come out with radiator. Be sure to keep track of these as they are needed to installed new one.
20. Remove tranny cooler hardline from radiator if reusing to install on new radiator.
21. Replace the 3 rubber tranny cooling lines. One connects between hardline and radiator. The other two should replace the ones you clamped off in engine bay. It is easier to replace the transmission lines at this point while the radiator is out.
Removal done. Install in reverse order. Note
Final notes :
a. The only hardware typically provided are the nuts that set into the radiator housing for mounting the fans. Note that all other hardware will need to be reused or replaced.
b. Be sure to check your tranny fluid level a few times once warmed up.
c. Draining coolant : I only drained it from the radiator. There is a drain bolt located on the rear of the engine. I don’t know how much comes out of there but seeing as I done regular cooling fluid change I was worried about getting it all out.
d. Filling coolant : the procedure is pretty extensive requiring running for several minutes turning on A/C, then turning on heater, then running rear heater…..running for several minutes and checking level at each step. This is all to get the air out of the system. Given I didn’t drain the block and the resulting heater lines I was successful just filling radiator and overflow appropriately, running until fan came on and checking level.
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