electricview

Hey Guys! I posted this in the RDX forum as well but didn't get much response, hopefully i'm not violating a rule posting it in two different area's, I apologize if so! I also for warn its a long posting as I try to get factors stated to get better opinions from people!

Here's my question and want of your opinions. I'm a single guy don't have kids or anything, and I was originally considering an MDX, but I saw the 2013 and newer RDX's get amazingly better gas mileage than a 2010 (or possibly 11) MDX. I realize the 2014 MDX gets the same gas mileage as these newer RDX's but my loan max approval is 35k at this point and base 14' MDX is like 42k (and WA sales tax is INSANE like 10-11%). My trade in is gonna be a 02 accord with a tranny that's starting to lag between 1-2 and 2-3 gear when shifting (yay thanks Honda for @#$@# transmissions!). I just got my new job after a long hiatus and I'm tired of having the Honda its been 8 years and i'd rather get rid of it before the tranny completely falls out. Anyways I just cant swing the NEW mdx because after taxes (and if I wanted Tech which I think I do) i'd be up near 49k, which is toooo much..

So my question becomes this. A 2013 RDX has the gas milage I'd like and they have one with 22k miles down south for 37.5k (but says price is negotiable) (link http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ctd/4227430866.html and http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ctd/4230264806.html) Not sure if that's CPO or not though its a Honda/acura dealer in one. if I could get him down to 34k or less I might consider that one.. But otherwise if he doesn't come down much, seems like its worth it to just get a brand new 14' RDX with tech for 39k if I really wanted to push my limit (and could swing it) at least over a used one that's only 2-3k cheaper. There's another used one closer that has only 2.2k miles but its pearl white and they want 38.5k (with tech and AWD) just seems silly to me when a new one is only 1.4k more.

BUT for around 31-33k I can snag a 2010 MDX with probably 30-45k miles on it. Why did I choose 2010? I just wanted to get new enough to get the 6 speed transmission which seemed like a pretty good upgrade right after the 09's and might give me a better chance of avoiding the bad torq converters... So that's 31-33k vs probably something like 35k(if i'm lucky and get the dealer down on that 13' RDX) to 39.5k for a 14 RDX TECH AWD). To me that's about 4-8k savings on the loan if I just go with a 2010 MDX. (and cant get the 37.5 down below 35k)

After doing the math of having to use premium fuel and the MDX's gas milage vs the RDX, I estimate at about 12.5k miles a year (which is about what I do roughly) It would cost me 448 dollars MORE a year to drive the mdx the same distance as it would the RDX with better MPG. at that rate i'd have to own the MDX for around 13 years to make up a 6k difference in price. Now that's with current gas prices I know if the price goes up , which it will, it will shorten that by a few years, but that still seems pretty long to me..

I realize there are other factors to consider like a 3 year newer car and such. I just thought i'd ask opinions here.. The upside of not having to get the loan maxed out at 35k means I can probably pay it off sooner and not feel quite so under water (i.e. my monthly payment would be 100 bucks cheaper roughly!).. But the RDX started to seem to suit my needs a bit more, Do I REALLY need the 3rd row seating since I have 0 kids, and don't plan on having any? The extra space may be nice, as I will skiboard (think micro sized ski's don't need a roof rack for, just fit in trunk easily) in the mountains, and probably take 2-3 friends, I still think I could probably fit everything snugly in the RDX.. And i'm not wild about the turbo 4 cylc models of 12 and older...

So Please people chime in on your thoughts. I know I post a lot of information, but i'm really indecisive.. Oh yes I've test driven the '14 rdx (the dealer had no 13's up here i'd have to drive 1.5 hours south to test drive that 13 with 22k miles on it) and the difference I felt was just that the RDX felt like it had a bit more ZING to it, where as the 10' MDX I test drove kind of felt like driving my friends 4 runner where you hear the engine roar just to get the thing moving (ok not quite that bad, but it felt a tad more laggy than the RDX did) and I probably slightly (only slightly) prefer the zippy feeling of the RDX, but then again, saving 6 grand and paying it off sooner is a nice feeling.. also I consider that old adage, a brand new car loses 2k value as soon as you drive it off the lot.. that's the nice thing about buying used 'usually' is that you already got that big drop in depreciation gone.

also is REALLY only worth it to stick to acura certified CPO? I know you get that extra 1 year/12k miles or whatever on the power train right? does that cover engine AND all tranny issues?

I plan to keep the car for probably a while, at least 5+ years I tend not to get new cars until things start to go terribly wrong with current ones (hence the tranny getting laggy on my accord and it will cost more to fix than the car is worth!) and Most usage will be day to day drive to work (around 7 miles each way) and some free way driving twice a week 50 miles round trip), then trips to the mountains every 2-3 weeks for 4-5 (70 miles one way) months.

Lastly I want to add, I've been considering just forgetting the tech package (at least on the MDX, maybe on rdx too) As from what I've been reading it may not be that much of a worthy upgrade, lots of complaints on the nav, and the ONLY real reasl I was so for it, was I wanted the best possible audio system I could get since it seems like if I take out the stereo I loose the ability to see the tempature settings in the car since it uses the stereos display for that? Hence I wouldn't relaly wana replace the head unit, and i'm used to the head unit being so crappy in cars (Honda accords) that when I replace them its NIGHT and DAY ... but if these sound systems are already way better maybe I don't need to worry about that and don't need tech?

So please chime in! Sorry for the long winded post! I always felt more information was better than not enough for peoples opinions!

ls973800

BUT for around 31-33k I can snag a 2010 MDX with probably 30-45k miles on it

I didn't realize the used ones go for that much. My wife is going to be selling her 2012 MDX Tech with 24000 next month. She bought it new but now we only need one vehicle.

I was thinking of asking around $32000.00 for it. I may have to do some additional checking around before offering it.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

outside of budget you need to consider what YOU need/want.

now, speaking as person with an 09 MDX w/tech pkg, bought CPO in 2011, no kids...here was my reasoning for choosing the MDX over the RDX (before the current 2G RDX):
-the extra space...knowing what we would be using the MDX for-hauling gear and road trips to races...we wanted to be comfortable and not have to cram everything into the back of an RDX. (it's amazing how much stuff we actually DO bring with us for a race weekend and how we fly to races with the similar amount is even more intriguing).
-comfort...road trips are comfortable longest so far has been 10 hrs and the MDX cruises at hwy speeds with great ease and sipping fuel at a leisurely 23-24 mpg at 67 mph (avg).
-fit and finish...the interior looks more plush than the RDX, so all the bells and whistles and then some.
-SHAWD...wow. for a big CUV at 4500 lbs, the MDX behaves much like a sedan around turns and corners.
-must have tech pkg...as the travel car the navi was a must along with the ELS system. don't get me wrong i've done my fair share of cussing at the navi b/c of how stupid the damn thing is when routing to my destination (i typically use mapquest to plan my routes and use those instructions over what the navi wants me to follow, the navi will eventually figure out the route, but it can still be frustrating). i swear the navi in my TL is smarter than the one in the MDX despite being 4 yrs older.
-the looks...i had a hard time with the looks of the 1G RDX...i had a hard time with the refresh of the MDX and it's plenum grill (it has grown on me...but i still like the earlier 07-09 grill, hence i have an 09). other than the gril the MDX has this muscular almost athletic look to it over the RDX (1G or even the 2G), which i preferred.
-MPGs...not really a deal breaker since i was already getting 17-18MPG in my TL on my commutes, the MDX would get 16-17mpg for the same commutes, so my fuels costs are a wash.
-as far as straightline performance...it's a CUV, it's heavy...she's gonna lumber about, plus i have TL that will fill my agility and quickness needs. the MDX nonetheless more than handles itself fine in traffic situations or when you need to accelerate past someone. i would imagine the later 10+ with the 6 spd would have a little more pep in acceleration over the 5spd.

the RDX...while it would be nice to own, did not suit my personal tastes, needs or wants. i have driven both 1G and 2G RDXs as loaners (i had them overnight to a couple of days). they are both different animals. the 2G RDX did not handle quite as well as the MDX however it was a great deal more peppy when you wanted it to be. to me, the interior felt very functional vs posh or more refined as the MDX.

ultimately, you need to figure out for yourself what you want out of the car and then narrow down your choices to one model. we can offer our insights, but we aren't buying the car. good luck. it's hard to go wrong with either one, but make sure you know EXACTLY what you want out of the car. test drive both and get acquainted with each. get the one your gut tells you to get, and don't settle.

electricview

AS to the first post.. The price is a little bit higher, i'm sure private seller 32k is accurate, i'm looking only at acura dealers hoping they are all CPO cuz I figured that extra 12k/1 year warranty addon was worth it? (okay i'm gunshy since the Honda tranny is dying on me and 01-04 mdx's got a bad tranny as well).... here's some examples (hope links are ok?)
http://www.hinshawsacura.com/tacoma-...ake_~Model_/14

http://www.hinshawsacura.com/tacoma-...ake_~Model_/15

And here's an 11' the best deal I could find
http://www.acuraofseattle.com/seattl...Make_~Model_/9

Hopefully those are ALL CPO but I do not know for sure?

to TLtrigirl.

Thanks for your reply! I appreciate your insights.. Both cars will be a HUGE upgrade to what I have, and would be my first SUV-ish type car. I don't have a lot of 'needs' to meet besides the fact that i'd like AWD for if I go to the mountains and the roads are covered with snow, the rest of the time WA state just gets a lot of rain, we RARELY get snow, maybe 1-3 days a YEAR and even then it rarely sticks so much that the ground stays covered for more than a few hours (it melts off fast).

I'd only be hauling any gear when I do go up to the mountains to skiboard, the rest of the time, the car would be just for commuting to work and the skating rink which I don't take much of either too... The thought had occurred why not just get a sedan then? Well aftering looking at acura's site those don't get much better gas mileage so why not get something a tad sporty I figured?

What really appealed to me about the RDX was the fact that the 13's and newer had much better gas mileage. For me i'll have to be getting used to premium only, since I use unleaded right now, but also my Honda accord gets 21-28mpg for probably an everage of 22-23 ish would be my guess.. the MDX is going to be substantially less, I've read to expect somewhere around 18.. i'm BLOWN away that you get 23! that's awesome! the mdx is quoted as getting 16-21 (except for 14's but that is absolutely out of the question for me right now, wouldn't want to spend that much anyways).

As I said, I kind of liked the pep the RDX had compared to the slight lag the MDX had, but I think I need to test drive again.. One annoying thing the RDX had going on that the MDX didn't was that I couldn't get comfortable arm resting positions, First the wheel when too low completely blocked my view of the speedometer so I had to raise it up, but then I couldn't rest my elbow on the center arm rest because it was sooo low and then my left arm felt REALLY high because I usually rest it on the windowsill and my seat was REALLY low compared to that. I think I just didn't take time to fully adjust the seat, some tall mutant must have been in there before me or something.

That brings me to a question that I cannot find the answer to, since you've driven both. Is the RDX lower riding than the MDX? I mean as a driver do you feel lower when you're in the RDX more like its a car vs the MDX feeling higher up as an SUV? or are they the same height in terms of where the driver sits... (and on that note, are they both the same height to 'climb up into' when you're getting into it?

I know the decision mainly restson me, I guess i'm just going back and forth back and forth, and another test drive is probably in order, I wish they wouldn't come along, or at least not sit in the center and hover above me as i'm driving, it really makes it feel so simulated, and I do not want to drive a car 'simtulating' an experience, I want just to see how I feel relaxed when driving it.

You say the tech is a must have, Is that because of the nav? I use my Galaxy S3 for nav most of the time, while it would be nice to not have to have my phone naving for a 1 or 2 hour drive to the mountains, if honestly the sound system isn't that much better in the tech, I may just forget about it (although with the RDX I am still leaning towards ie, since it does xenon headlights and power tailgate right in the 13 model right?).

One last thing, I don't do much road tripping, I cant say I never will again, but its not something I do each year.. the mountains will probably be the longest drive (74 miles, so about 1.2 hours to the mountain) I'll be doing most of the time and that's only going to be probably 5-7 times a year, since our mountains only have good snow for 2-3 months).

Thanks for your chime in! feel free to poke holes in my logic or remind me of things i'm missing.. I'm just kind of stuck at this point between saving maybe 4-6 thousand dollars (and paying the vehicle off a year sooner in the case of the MDX ) or spending a bit more and getting better gas mileage and maybe more pep? oh and slightly newer by 2 years or so).

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

the ELS system is a lot better than the non tech versions. trust me. if you're a bit of an audiophile you'll appreciate the ELS a great deal.

as far as seat position...the MDX has the ability to raise and lower the seat and tilt the seat if need be as well. the RDX sits lower than the 2G MDX. IIRC, the RDX was easier to get into vs the MDX (check the ground clearance of the each on the spec sheet). i remember the RDX seating almost feeling like i was in a cockpit of sorts it felt much lower than my MDX regarding position of the seat within the car. i have my seat in the MDX positioned in such a way that i'm not seated up high. i probably sit a bit lower than most and in a more relaxed position.

the layout of the armrest in the RDX seems a bit low but that's just me. i'm not a short person by any means at 5'7".

the RDX with tech sounds like it's a good fit for your needs/wants with a little bit of everything. as far as navi...the issue being is what if you go to an area with no cell reception that renders your phone as a GPS navi useless. the navi's have made improvements over the years in Honda/acura however much of the criticism is subjective. it will have it's pros and cons as with any system. no navi is perfect by any means.

i would go and play with the navi in the RDX. keep in mind you also get teh hard drive storage with the tech pkg to dump your ipod music into or add a photo to your navi screen wallpaper or dump your phone book into for bluetooth integration.

if you're looking at keeping the car a good while what are you most comfortable financing for a long period of time (an older 10 or a '13?).

the other point you made was CPO. my 09 was CPO. for me i wanted peace of mind. i had a friend who was an SA at my dealer and i asked him what the common issues if any the MDXs had since that's all the see all day (Acuras). he mentioned the torque convertor and said make sure you get CPO, that's a pricey item, so you dont' want to be stuck if it decides to go. since then acura has issued a warranty extension on the TC to 8 yr and 110k mi (i think...). again...comes down to what is it worth to you?

i've certainly made use of the extra yr of bumper to bumper (soon to expire) to take care of a number of things which almost pays for the CPO. i have a bit more time to nit pick about some annoying things going on with my MDX that i'll have the dealer take care of.

electricview

Ohhh thanks that's awesome information.. I just saw a posting on our craigslist for a 13 RDX that's been there for a week.. It SAYS base RDX, but I think this dealer is not paying attention? cuz in the pictures it sure looks like it has the NAV installed (and wouldn't that mean tech package?) 15k miles.. but only asking 34,9k for it which isn't bad.. I wonder if they'd come down 1 or 2 k

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/4233144039.html

Only problem is, its a BMW dealer, so no CPO kind of disappointing, and not sure if it's a bad idea to pass up the CPO through acura program.... then again if this guy would come down 1500-2000 it would put it into a nice sweetspot price wise espically if they take my car as trade in, I could almost get the thing for 30k before taxes... then again i'm probably daydreaming.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

the ad mentions it has the tech pkg, but no mention of whether it has AWD or not (though the one pic of the back of the car might have that "AWD" badge on it).

what you need to do is price compare the market of the RDX...nada, KBB and edmund's. then compare to YOUR market (look at cars.com and autotrader) and what others are selling for. the used car market has dipped a little in terms of holding prices. to get the RDX at your 30k price point...you're looking at one with higher mileage.

i peeked at my dealer site for what they had...slim pickings for RDXs (2 low mileage '13 base with AWD (no tech) going for just under $35k-probably service loaners and CPO. 10-11 MDXs are going to around $30k with avg miles (36k-50k miles). they have a 12 with 25k mi for $35k or so. all of these have tech pkg.

good luck in your search. are you sure you want black? it's a massive PITA to keep clean and shows EVERYTHING. dont' get me wrong, black is gorgeous when it's clean for the 30 seconds after it's been detailed.

NJ06RL

OP: Just back to your gas mileage calc on the 2010/11 MDX. Whatever you calculated, most real world experiences with the 2010/11 MDX show slightly worse ( or sometimes much worse) gas mileage than what is declared. Dunno how accurate the RDX gas mileage claim is but just be prepared to wonder if you bought a real guzzler after driving a 10/11 MDX around for a while. Having said that, for me personally, I would not give up my 10 MDX for a 2013 RDX but that is cos I am a family man and I like road trips with the family. And I like SH AWD and the 2013 RDX does not have that.

Most 10/11 MDX owners like their cars for reasons other than gas mileage. Just saying that cos you're coming from an Accord so there may be some gas mileage shock to deal with when you get to grips with what the MDX really provides in that department. But when I think back to what the MDX has been capable of ( hauling a full set of 4 rims and tires for my convertible 800 miles plus with my wife and kid in the back and road trip luggage ), I still love our MDX.

electricview

Thanks guys! Yeah I am trying to prepare myself for the gas shock, the nice thing is the mdx has a 20 gallon tank so hopefully it will help from having the feeling of filling up every 5 minutes ...

I went to the dealership again and test drove another 14 RDX and an 11MDX. The RDX I like the gas mileage, but I had a hard time being as comfortable as the MDX.. my left elbow is either too low on the arm rest in the door, or too high on the window cill on the door.. my right elbow is only just slightly too low on the center arm rest.. didn't feel that problem as much with the MDX..

Of course the RDX engine felt tighter and pured much smother than the older MDX engine, but that's to be expected.

They really tried to get me into the MDX.. At first it was just 'lets just run numbers to see your credit' which slowly turned into 'whats it gonna take to get you into this?'.. it was this one:

http://www.acuraofseattle.com/seattl...Make_~Model_/9

In the end I told them, look give it to me for 32k before taxes and fee's and give me 3k trade in on my 2002 Honda accord.. But they came back with 33k on the mdx, so I passed.. Kind of glad I did, when he showed me the CPO inspection sheet, the tires were at 5, 7,7, and 4 (which was gonna mean replacing soon). There was 'rust' on the under carriage ? apparently it had been from new York (i'm in seattle here, that's a long way) also no floor mats, the paper said it needed a major servicing which the salesguy claimed he had no idea what that meant and couldn't check until Monday cuz it was a weekend. Also one of the seatbelts had a small hole in it they were going to replace that though..

And as for black, the outside doesn't need to be black, i'd like the inside to be though, I don't know I like that creambrown color or whatever its called.. and i'm coming from a silver car, going to ANOTHER silver car.. just seems.. I dunno.. like i'm ready for a change?... course the car I owned before my current was black.. And I doubt there's many white mdx's with black interior out there.. I'm not as picky about the color though, really if mechanically and interally it was in GREAT condition with NO issues and the price was right.. Color would take a backseat I think. But I prefer greys/blacks... at least inside.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

white on black doesn't exist in the MDX. or the RDX...unless you live in Canada (IIRC).

Both of mine are dark gray on black.

basically you should have pushed harder if you really wanted the MDX...have them check the "major" service, get new tires and floor mats. i dont' know what this service they speak of at 37k miles (per the ad). basic maintenance is all that is needed. if anything the next maintenance service should have been performed as part of the CPO and any tires that do not meet 50% of the treadlife need to be replaced. personally if they are pushing the car on you...i'd let them sit on it and see what happens.

i would not worry about rust...it's surface rust. it happens to any car that has lives around snow.

why settle? if you're gonna spend that kind of money...might as well get what you want.

NJ06RL

OP: I like the color of the MDX they showed you. That combo of palladium silver and black leather is what I have in my MB and it is very classic. Hard to go wrong. And future resale is somewhat protected too. Stay away from red MDXs with the cream interior - poorer resale. On tires, you can either make them replace or just rely on the folk here who will advise on what are good replacement tires when the time comes. TLtrigirl knows a lot about that and I may go her way in about 10K miles when I will need to replace our MDX tires.

On other maintenance stuff, if they don't meet your price, ask for some combo or all of the following and then meet their 1K higher price: rear diff fluid change using only Acura SH AWD fluid, wiper blade replacement, A/c pollen filter change, synthetic motor oil change with oil filter replacement, tranny fluid flush and replace using only Acura ATF, air filter replacement.

That should take care of most anything the car will need for many many miles. Maybe the next thing you would have to do is a brake job but that could be about 10-15K miles away.

And yes, keep the CPO on this car. It is worth it.

Finally, don't be too focused on getting a black exterior car. I have one and it takes a lot of work to keep the car looking good. Black looks great when clean but it does not stay that way. Silver hides the dirt better.

Good luck and let us know your final decision.

electricview

Well I wasn't pushing that hard as I was 'defending' giving into their price.. they kept trying to convince me to 'just buy it' and I am not very good at negotiating because basically I feel with all the stupidly overpaid people in this city (we have a high cost of living) that they know they can always sell it to someone else for closer to the price they are asking, in my head I had the number 32k pretty much set, and at the end I said 'well if we could get this to 32....' and he got up and went over to some other desk and tried to get that number said they'd only do 33.. also when I asked if it included fixing everything on that list of stuff, he said 'no, not at this price' but then I asked, well what about the seat belt, and the floor mats? he said "oh we can probably do those...." but not the service... and they didn't mention anything about replacing any tires, just said 'these are still pretty good except for one' and quickly moved on.. they probably just saw an easy sale by looking at me (I look about 10 years younger than I actually am).. Also it was weird the 'dealer manager' was using it for his personal ride.. just before they really tried to sell me into it, they came over and asked "were you interested in purchasing this car today? because the dealer manager would like to take it home he's been driving it" which seemed kind of unprofessional to me in general...

so i'm glad I passed.. I didn't 'REALLY want it, I wanted it if the price was right, which it never got to, so i'm okay that I passed.. I at least stood my ground at the price I desired, but i'm not good enough at this point go to in and be like "Okay look mr sleeze, Can you do 32k on this or not? cuz if not i'm walkin now"...

He did say I could email him my car VIN so he could run a carfax and see how much they'd offer me... I was wondering if that's a good idea, (even though i'm sure i'm gonna pass) because I don't know what will show up on my carfax.. I was in an accident a few years ago both driver side doors need to be replaced..and police were called to the scene.. So I wonder if that will show up and hurt my trade in value.. though honestly, I feel like they know the trade in is kind of a write off for them and should give me 3-4k regardless so I will buy their car, but then again.. I know the world doesn't really work that way..

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

if the dealer is being that shady...start walking the other way. if it was me and i was buying the car....see ya.

my dealer doesn't generally play the stupid sales games. they give it to you straight forward without all the clock and dagger crap. plus people in my area...time is important and they dont' have time to screw around with that kind of crap.

electricview

Yeah that's what I get for going to the one in the lower part of town I spose

with your dealer, does that mean they tell you the bottom line price and there isn't much room for negotiation?

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

well...they get pretty darn close. of course they never give you that number first...you have to work for it a little.

however for me...they probably would give me a price closer to that bottomline.

NJ06RL

OP: You can always squeeze out a bit more if you are willing to walk away. As well as play off a couple or three different dealers against each other, as long as you are flexible on color/interior etc..

fxcarden

I really like the RDX.

freddieb

I have an RDX and my brother has an MDX (2012). His vehicle guzzles gas, is great for long trips and has a much smoother suspension. The RDX (mine is SH-AWD/turbo which doesn't exist anymore) doesn't have a refined interior like the MDX. I like the RDX better because it is smaller but it has a lot of irritating cheap appointments. His MDX drives like a Cadillac and his partner has a 2009 MDX which is much more nimble and responsive. The RDX does not have SH-AWD anymore which I think matters.