Steve 21

I just did 2 flush and fills so far with the type-f on my type-s. I will be doing the 3rd tomorrow or monday because it started getting to dark and the light in my garage isn't enough.

I have a question though, I had 4qts drain out each time, does this mean I will be running too much type-f? From the equation I got for once I complete my last one with one qt of d4 is,


New Percentage decimal = [ ( Current Percentage decimal x 4.4 ) + newly added qts ] / 7.4

Refill #1 Percentage decimal = [ ( 0.0 x 3.4 ) + 4 ] / 7.4 = 0.54

Refill #2 Percentage decimal = [ ( 0.54 x 3.4 ) + 4 ] / 7.4 = 0.78

Refill #3 Percentage decimal = [ ( 0.78 x 3.4 ) + 3 ] / 7.4 = 0.76


I figured I will just have to do a flush with 2 qts type-f, 2 qts d4 which will give me 62%. Now doing that how should I do fills later on? If I do a 2qt and 2qt i will start dropping closer to 50%. Will my best bet be just do 2 and a half type f and 1 and a half d4?

One more question, I only ordered 1 bottle of d4 but I want to get it changed to lower the type f since currently its at 78% but with the holidays coming up I am not sure if I will be able to get the bottle before thanksgiving which I have a long drive coming up for. Is there any recommended replacements to use in the meantime, as if I did 2 qts type f, one d4, one (replacement of d4). Would that be fine or should I not do that.

Thanks anyone in advance!

Inaccurate

Steve 21,

One option is to use Mobil1 Synthetic ATF Multi Vehicle in place of the missing one-quart of D4. But, I don't like this option. I assume that you have no flaring. So, your current 78% is ok and not hurting anything at the moment.

My vote is to do nothing for now. Order the needed D4 and wait for it. No reason to mess-up your high percentage of pure Redline Brand ATF and spoil it with an inferior fluid.

I agree with your math. I agree with the 2-1/2 F + 1-1/2 D4 to maintain a steady 62% with future refills.

Steve 21

Ok, thanks for the response and this great thread . I ordered another bottle earlier and having it shipped to my parents house in myrtle beach. Its still fresh at 78% so really the only thing to drive with it in is 300miles down there this weekend and doing it right away so I'm guessing I should be fine. Rather not start mix and matching things like crazy.

the fenda rolla

So what is the general concensus from the Transmission Digest article?

Does this info even apply to the TL trans?

Will continued use of a 65% racing mixture still be optimal?

Should we manually downshift from now on?

Will the lightwieght crank pulley be even more beneficial now?

Inaccurate

So what is the general concensus from the Transmission Digest article? Off-topic to this thread.

Does this info even apply to the TL trans? Off-topic for this thread.

Will continued use of a 65% racing mixture still be optimal? YES !!!!

Should we manually downshift from now on? Off-topic for this thread.

Will the lightwieght crank pulley be even more beneficial now? I see not direct connection between the ATF and the pulley. One has no effect on the other.

the fenda rolla

Not to sound like an ass, but that article was pretty off topic to begin with, so I just wanted to clarify on some key points...in regards to the pulley, i was just going off of what you said about on page 3...

"But, this is not really the fault of the trans. It is Acura's fault for piling on so much additional weight to the TL and slapping on that heavy ass crank pulley.

So, it is not the trans. The trans is very excellent at downshifting. Get rid of a thousand pounds and get rid of that heavy crank pulley. Those are the problems. Not the trans."

Just wondering if the lightweight pulley would also aid in the transmission's prolonged and efficient operation.

94eg!

Lightweight crank pulley eliminates the OEM crank damper. This device controls crankshaft flex as the crank gets banged on by ignition. The crank can spring back & forth upwards of 3* under high load. If that uncontrolled spring effect combines with the correct rpm, the crank will begin to resonate. None of that is good for engine longevity.

Inaccurate

Thanks for asking so that I can clarify.

My post that you quoted was in reference to the 5AT ability to properly downshift. The Racing ATF has a small effect on the downshifting in that the trans will grab harder (more abruptly) when the trans "kicks down" (aka, "passing gear").

Unrelated to the ATF but on the same topic of downshifting, the UR pulley will help the 5AT to execute a downshift. Because the engine must undergo a sudden increase in RPM while a downshift is being executed, the pulley (being MUCH lighter in weight) allows the engine to increase RPM more quickly to allow the downshift to be executed more quickly.

In regards to your question, the UR pulley could -- in a small way -- aid in the transmission's prolonged and efficient operation. The UR pulley will allow rev-matching (that is, the increase in RPM that I mentioned) to occur with slightly less slipping of the clutches. Less slipping of the clutches will greatly prolong the life of the trans.

Inaccurate

This is entirely off-topic to this thread. Let's please not debate the pulley in this thread.

hofiveo

$114.52 for 12 qts Racing and 1 qt D4 at Amazon.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ linky linky....

hofiveo

It was luck. They had a case of Racing ATF "used- like new" for 104.03 and 1 qt D4 for 10.49 and free shipping. Heard outdoorpros.com has cheapest price plus 5% off on case in another thread or this one. Ill look for ya. I did a 3X3 with Schaeffers All-Trans,filter change and switches about 8,000 miles ago. Doing the filter and 3X3 with Redline soon.

mrlal8

iTrader: (2)

I am not sure what this flare thing feels like. Itd be helpful if someone had a video. I rather be safe than sorry tho so I ordered 2 bottles of D4 and will be doing 2 of D4 and 1 racing on Saturday. Prior to that I had done a 3x3 with all racing

Inaccurate

In the video below, watch the tach suddenly jump up by 500 RPM as the trans shifts at around 35 MPH. This is flaring.

Video courtesy of chayos00

mrlal8

iTrader: (2)

thankss
yeah that hasnt happened to me yet but i will still go ahead and do as you suggested.

Scottwax

Has anyone played around with B&M Trick Shift ATF? Used it in my 1990 Accord, noticeably firmed up shifts, got 190k miles out of that transmission. The synthetic version is Mercon/Dexron III compatible. Not sure what actually meets Honda ATF specs though.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I think the TL auto tranny uses DexIV compatible fluid

I bet Inaccurate will provide more technical insight on this

brz08tls

Sorry to bring this old (but very useful) thread but i have a simple question, since i used AMSOIL SuperShift for my 3x3 about 4 months ago:

Should i use 2 quarts of this ( http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx ) + 1 more quart of the Supershift?

I think i got my answer some pages back but i wanted to make sure!

hleapha

I am just a bit skeptical of an ATF that covers such a wide range of applications. Even Manual Trannys. I believe that there are differences in the way clutches mesh with the fluid among these trans, thus requiring differences in fluid.

I would feel a little more comfortable using D4 over Amsoil, but that may just be b/c of my fear borne ignorance. Now, I am still running a 3x3 of Redline Type F and have been getting some flaring recently. Obviously the transmission is malfunctioning b/c of a significant incompatibility with the lack of friction modifiers. So talking with Redline's tech guy (forgot his name but its the same guy gets quoted on here often), he was talking about the D4 meshing better with our clutch material than even D6. These are the equivalents of a Dex III and Dex IV which are supposed to be very similar. This being said, the Type F would be way the heck different. While Z1 has too MANY FM's, I think that erroring on the side of ALL D4 may be a safer bet. I mean, you are not going to have the flaring malfunction and I doubt you will have the premature slipping that you would have with the Z1. I thinking every now and then throwing in Type F wouldn't hurt, but I think boggling down and almost being neurotic about an optimal percentage is too precise. Over precise to the point where it confuses people and it is flat out inaccurate. (damn I really couldn't avoid the pun, sorry much love!)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

NO...you gotta get Redline Type F ATF + Redline D4 + Redline Lightweight Type F

There are a lot of factors which depend on this....How was Redline introduced ? How quickly ? What was the interval ? What fluid you had before ? Did you do the switches ? Were you experiencing any problems before you introduced Redline ?

I have done a 4x3 with Redline Type F and have experienced no flaring in more than 10K miles....the tranny shifts super shift....

Once I hit 60K on this juice, i might try what Inaccurate is saying about the mixture of the 3 fluids....

hleapha

I felt good about it too at 10k but at about 15k it started out of the blue. However, looking back I feel like the shift did change some over time. Switches are good but my comment was excluding the switches since I have done those. Flaring is a fluid thing. The theory about the detergents or additives preventing the flaring before they wear, is pretty solid. Just curious, has anyone heard of a TL that was fine and THEN starting slipping some time after a full switch to D4?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I agree....what i was trying to get to is, if you had some problems which you were trying to fix uses the switches/fluid, maybe it came back....

but yeah flaring it a fluid thing....reduce the amount of FM's and you should be good...

hleapha

I just don't think anyone has tested the reduction of FM's to give the 'optimal amount' any validity. The reason I say this is b/c the side effect of too few FM's is flaring...which doesn't happen until the detergents or whatever are used up around 10-20k miles. So 64% or whatever of course is going to feel fine... for the first 10, 20k miles. But that doesn't say anything b/c using 100% Type F yields the same result. I haven't seen a reason to suggest D4 needs any reduction of FM's to create a happy tranny, but I have seen too few FM's causing an unhappy tranny.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

pretty bold statement. care to explain

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

@hleapa: shit i must have been on crack on when i wrote that LOL...

I meant raise not reduce the amount of FM's....

Flaring happens when the FM is too low....when the FM's are too high there is slipping....so either way you are stuck LOL....

the best way is to be around the 50% mark (conservative) or the 65% as Inaccurate suggest (aggressive) or keep it it all Type F (bring it on bish)

but i really will not suggest having very high number of FM's....

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

We were discussing Redline and the optimal percentages and hence directed him towards redline.

Eventually I have become a fan of Redline and use that product, hence recommend it...

hleapha

I have to admit to having bit of a Red Line crush. I am about to do my oil change with Red Line 5w20, which is a first. But that is off topic!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

glad you went with 5w20....30 becomes a little to thick...

hleapha

Agreed. Since I have a 3x3 of Type F in now, I will continue forward with 1x3s of D4 and if that start yeilding slipping or overly soft shifts, I can add Type F to firm it up.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ why dont you get the viscosity under control as well....

use Inaccurates guide to drain and refill % and see where it takes you....

I hate cars

5w-30 is good for 0F and even lower. Unless your temps get near that point, it's fine. Even 0F is conservative, the synthetic will do fine below that temp. The 30wt will give less wear especially under harsh/hot conditions.

I hate cars

ATFs are more alike than different. The difference in D4 and D6 is viscosity, not FM. D6 meets the DexVI spec for low temp startups and the usual .000001mpg savings they impose on the manufacturer. D6 and DW-1 meet the same viscosity requirements.

I've written way too many times and I'm not going to go into detail here. The TL has a mechanical problem when doing a 4-2 downshift. This is the one area Type F can cause problems. If you do not have this downshift often or you shift manually, it's nothing to worry about. I do not do a 4-2 downshift, I've been on Type F for more miles than probably anyone else and I have perfect better than factory shifts with well over 100,000 miles. However, I got the factory crap out of there around 20k and I've been on a non approved fluid ever since.

hleapha

I was under the impression that basically the only difference to DexIII and DexIV was a thinner and more stable viscosity. Same with Red Line's D4 and D6 respectively. But having a convo with the Redline's tech guy, I was specifically trying to confirm that the only difference b/w d4 and d6 was the above. He said that the viscosity properties are different but the are different additives or differences in the formulation that meshes with our clutch plates better. That surprised me, but I don't know exactly why because he wouldn't go into more details. I would think D6 would just be slightly better to use than D4 for more favorable startup viscosity, but he says not.

About the Type F: it's great but my tranny is flaring b/c of it and I am going to correct that. Whatever the problem is sorta matters, but I already know a solution. I guess I am really sidetracking the thread about D4 vs D6 but also trying to deprogram people a little bit about this 'perfect percentage' to get to. Obviously it does and will continue to work well with many people, I just ran into a hiccup. I also don't see any more damage happening from using all D4 and maybe tossing a bottle of Type F in every now and then.

brz08tls

Right... i understand that to be honest. It would just suck for me to re-do this whole thing 3x during the winter by switching to Redline.

Innacurate actually recommended the Amsoil ATF to be added to the Supershift so I'll try that. If i don't like it, i'll switch it up to Redline in the Summer when i have more time and it's not 30º out.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ sounds like a great plan....

t-rd

6/14/2011, post #18 here, https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/who-has-had-tranny-issues-after-going-type-f-tranny-fluid-822513/

"It is 100% impossible for this fluid to cause a flair. It has a ton more holding power than Z1."

CubanLynx84

iTrader: (2)

I haven't been on in a long time and just came across this thread. Inaccurate, I am experiencing that same flaring now!! I'm on all lightweight redline ATF. So I can drain out 3 qts and replace with D4 and I should be ok correct? Or should I do a complete 3x3 again with 6qts racing ATF(not lightweight) and 3 D4 qts? What's a good ratio for me. I'm thinking of doing a full 3x3 just to freshen it over completely. I did the switches a while back I would have to check to see if it's time to change them out again.

jerzydevil609

if i live in North Carolina (hot summers, mild-slightly cold winters) and my job is only a mile from my house, does the optimum percentage change for me since the car never really heats up?

thanks so much for all the insight... you guys are the best...

nuron

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried this yet? I have 3x3 of Type F in mines too and I was planning to do 1x3 of D4 to get rid of the lunging feeling.

BostonSilverTypeS

Okay this could be helpful to others and also I need to some from you Inaccurate!


Long story short since March I had fully converted myself to run straight Redline Lightweight FLuid...Yes not a typo it is all Lightweight and did a 3x3 of it......all summer and up until October or so that car drove amazing and the shifting was just ridiculous..........But beware and behold I began getting the dreaded flaring from 2nd to 3rd shift. It go as bad as 400-500rpm increases like trans was slipping!

So I haven't really be on so I completely missed this Thread at the time. With me though I would get flaring only when cruising as whenever I was WOT it still shifted firm and crispy and no issues...Matter fact drove twice to Florida and back to Boston on straight lightweight and in SS mode and didnt have a problem as I was controlling the shift. Now in Drive mode OMG!! car would not know what shift it was in while downshifting and it would jerk/buck into gear and lunge really bad that it would end up going in limp mode and would not allow me to go into SS mode. So I would have to shut vehicle down and start it back up and then go directly to SS mode and I would be fine controlling my shift, besides the cruising flares from 2nd 3rd it was ok for time being......

At first my impression was huh maybe its because of the weather getting colder and I know InACCurate was running same as me but lives in Texas and it don't get cold as up here.....So since I was under warranty still and am familiar with the dealer I went to dealer got some new DW-1 fluid to place back in so I could bring it in and have it documented for warranty purposes in case the trans shit the bed again as some of you may know that awhile ago I got a rebuilt trans put in.....

Performed the complete 3x3 with DW-1 and drove for couple of days and what do you know the trans began shifting great and no more flares or crazy downshifts......So I camer to conclusion that obviously running just lightweight was no good and I had to have some type of mix. this was fine with me as I was experimenting with the fluid in cold weather and if worse case I had warranty and could always reverse the fluid and go that route.....

So brought car in got slight flaring documented and they said it needed a trans flush after I performed one already, at this point I just wanted to car in so it could be documented for tranny issues if I ever really went and I could say the rebuilt trans was no good.

I managed to save the old Redline lightweight fluid and yes the fluid still came on nice and Red with no funny colors....

So now impressions on the DW-1 fluid, I must say it is most def better then Z1 crap from before and it shifts much smoother n crisp!! Not redline fast but def got better!!! I been on the DW-1 fluid for about 2weeks or so and will not be staying with it just for the fact that it still has the soft shift feel as compared to Redline fluid



So here is my question to you INACCUrate as I hate finding percentages in right mix or what not, but question is

Since I have the old Redline Lightweight fluid and dont want it to go to waste could I possibly mix that in with the DW-1 and bring my mix to an optimal range of 50-65% mix?? Is it even safe to use the Lightweight after being in there with the issues that was occuring?


I was thinking of doing 2qts Lightweight of which I saved with 1qt DW-1 which I can get super cheap from dealer. I think for 9qts when I reversed back I paid like $50-60bucks. Or should I just do like 3qts just using the Redline lightweight stuff on the first Drain and fill and then to like a 2qts lightweight 1qt DW-1 on second and then on third began introducing the Redline Type F with DW-1.


Basically I'm trying to prevent from draining the DW-1 out all at once and pay big bucks again for the Redline stuff so I figure at each oil change began with process mentioned. What is your take on that InACC and also what mix % wise will I be at on each drain and fill.


P.S. I know the best route if money and time was not of an issue is get DW-1 all out and just to the procedure from first page, but since I have fresh DW-1 and also the saved lightweight I figured I could get close to where I need to be and not completely waist the lightweight stuff


Thanks in Advance INACCurate