Mjakaz09TL

iTrader: (7)

I think u forgot to post your pic? At least i am not seeing it...

saturated_fat

If you still cant see it, I can email it?

saturated_fat

Oh yea the car has a CAI, headers, greddy exhaust on it and some other things 5AT. Coolant may have spilled

Majofo

Don't go by the marks on the timing cover, it's just a visual guide. upload a pic of the timing mark on the block and the cam gear if you can.. but again.. it sounds like it's a misfire issue rather than a timing issue.

Majofo

headers?

you mean straight piped primaries?

saturated_fat

I meant high flow cats :P

I'm realyl really tired sorry.

When you say its a misfire...how do I go about fixing that? Steps the troubleshoot ?

Majofo

well check your timing marks first and foremost, the cam gear marks should line up TDC with the block mark. As illustrated below:



If that checks out.. go ahead and drive it to your local auto parts store / autozone and pull the code but get some sleep first. We don't want you crashing into something on the way there. Report back the codes to us when you do.

When you swap the plugs you have to be pretty careful with the coils.. you didn't drop any did you? Also don't put any dielectric grease on top of the plug and make sure the coil seats properly. The pressure from the coil will seat like it's spring loaded so if it pushes back any give it a 1/4 twist left to right until it does seat correctly and then secure it with the fastening bolt. Pay particular attention to the connection as well. Make sure they are fully clipped into the coil.

As a final note I would check all your electrical connections that you unfastened when doing the job. Make sure everything is hooked up properly. I would also change out the PCV valve (cheap & easy, forgot to include it in the DIY). I think worst case for you is a bad coil or possible valve adjustment.

saturated_fat

I'm gonna take a nap and then take it over to autozone, thanks for the help!

Is there a quick way to check the TDC marks without removing the CP again ?

One more quick thing...one of the Coils was brown, like completely brown, so was the spark plug that went with it. However the car was not having any issues before the TB change.

saturated_fat

Ok went to advance auto and got the car scanned. Multiple codes came out, Most popular ones were Misfire in Cyl 5. There was a Misfire in random cylinders error also. The other cylinders mentioned were 2,4,6 (In seperate errors).

So...does this mean the timing is off ?

saturated_fat

I should also mention that before taking the car there I did unplug different coils to see the effect. This may be the reason I threw so many codes. See the below diagram....

O O O
O X O

X has no affect on the cars idle when unplugged, the other O's all will cause the car is idle horribly. I'm assuming this means there is no spark on that cylinder...even If I switch coils there is still no change.

So...does this mean the timing is off or that its still a misfire?

Majofo

Did you check the timing marks again from cam gear to block mark? I would remove the timing covers and crank pulley again to double check all the marks just to be 100% on TDC marks. The rear cam can sometimes rock a tooth forward when installing the timing belt as well. Although 1 tooth advance is probably not going to cause misfire issues it's not out of the question.

If all the timing marks look good, I'd focus your attention to the coils. A bad coil will cause a misfire and will throw multiple misfire codes even though only one cylinder is the issue. You can test the coils individually with a multimeter (I don't know the procedure off hand) or you can buy a single coil and play hopscotch until you find the culprit. If all the coils check out you should then check the valve clearances. You'll have to remove the intake manifold and associated components (intake tract, throttle body, etc), and remove your valve covers. Get a feeler gauge and check the top valve clearances and adjust accordingly.

Valve clearance spec:

Intake 0.20 - 0.24mm (0.008 - 0.009 in)
Exhaust 0.28 - 0.32mm (0.011 - 0.013 in)

Keep us updated.

nfnsquared

Well, what cylinder was the "brown" coil on before you moved it around? If it was #5, then I think you have your answer....

DMZ

What it as brown as the back of the undies I took off last night?
Enquiring minds want to know!

.
.

Majofo

brown? oh.. I read right past that reference. If it is the same coil that you unplugged and the idle settles down / doesn't get worse, it's probably the issue.. can you post pics of said spark plug and coil OP?

To save a bit of coin.. try to salvage a coil from a junk yard otherwise go get a new one from your local Honda / Acura shop.. probably around $50-100 depending on where you go.

Majofo

tmi

nfnsquared

Depends??

TLTrance

It looks like changing the spark plugs has a lot more considerations than I thought... Easy to swap, but perhaps not so easy to get right?

Majofo

well played sir.

Majofo

not really.. doing many things all at once, returning an issue and then trying to find the culprit can be a bit complicated is all. Changing the spark plugs alone isn't, just be patient and take your time to do it right.

saturated_fat

Hi, Thanks for all the responses. I'm going to triple check the timing marks once I get some time. I'll post pics once I get that far with it.

The brown plug was at Position B, see below, X is the one that seems to have no affect on idle:

O O O
B X O

My hunch is still the timing belt, simply because it was working before... but then again who knows since so much was done.

Is it safe to unplug the coil while the engine is running ? Can someone tell me which bank is #5 ??

nfnsquared

Assuming the bottom of the page is the front of the car, B is #4, X is #5.

firewall
123
456
front

Majofo

You can unplug a coil while running. My advice after thinking it over a bit is to go ahead and buy another coil, replace #5 and go from there.

nfnsquared

^^^I agree, replace the "brown" coil.

Majofo

Definitely try it on both.. I'm more inclined to believe it's the 5th cyl coil and not the brown one (if indeed the brown one isn't the 5th) since he said the idle didn't change with the 5th unplugged but all the others got worse.

nfnsquared

Hmmm. Yeah, try both I guess. It does make sense that #5 may be the culprit instead of the "brown" one on #4 based on your test.

Did you happen to buy the brown one from DMZ?

Majofo

glizenndale

Planning on doing this DIY this weekend. Thought I would contribute after looking for the Honda pulley removal tool. I called Checker (O'Reilly) here in AZ and they actually have it available for rent in the store. It's part number 67101 in their computer. It's a $50 deposit refundable when the tool is returned. In case anyone wants to double check with their local Checker/O'Reilly it may be rentable there as well. Save some cash for a one-time use item.

saturated_fat

Guys,

Here are some pics as promised. Any input appreciated.

http://www.seebadan.com/incoming/TL/timing/

saturated_fat

It appears that #5 will always report a misfire before anything after a reset.

We checked the 456 coils to see if they were sparking and they were. We're going to buy a new coil to see if its just a bad coil or not.

Timing has been redone yet again, and looks dead on.

Any other parts to try?

Majofo

That sounds like the best option.. If you want to buy the tool you can get the 50mm hex wrench for $25 or get the hex wrench with the attached breaker bar for $50 from Amazon.

Timing marks look good, crankshaft looks a hair off but it could be the angle of the shot as well. I would get a coil and try swapping out 4 & 5 as suggested.

AMUA6

iTrader: (7)

Hey I needed this! Thanks!

saturated_fat

Played hopscotch with the coils, still same error codes.

Majofo

With a new coil? Remove the spark plug as well and replace it with a new one.

saturated_fat

Well we tried all new plugs last night, now we tried just swaping the coil 1 by 1 with a brand new coil.

nfnsquared

Hmmm. Timing looks to be correct, although it's hard to be completely sure from the pictures....

It's a long shot, but I wonder if there's any chance that both #4 and #5 (or multiple) coils are bad?

Can you post the codes (the code numbers) that you got?

Did you pull the new plugs to be sure one/some didn't get fouled after the run last night?

Majofo

Assuming timing isn't an issue and the plugs & coil packs are fine.. I'd do a compression test and a valve adjustment at this point.

saturated_fat

I'm assuming the valve adjustment isnt a DIY type thing? Also why would the valves need to be adjusted if they were fine before?

Basically it doesnt matter how I put the coils in, cyl 5 will always report a misfire. In other words I cannot get the misfire code to switch cylinders.

The codes are P0305, 0300, 0304, 0302. The 0300 only appears after the car has been running (engine under load, driving it).

At this point I'm running out of patience . I appreciate all the help. I'm going to go ahead and remove all plugs/coils and ensure they are not fouled and replace everything.

Majofo

You can definitely do a valve adjustment on your own. It'll take you a little more time and a few extra parts & tools but it's not expensive nor more difficult than the timing belt procedure.

nfnsquared

P0300 is general misfire code, P0302, 0304, and 0305 indicate misfire on cylinders 2,4, and 5. Anytime you get a -02, -04, or -05 you should also get a -00. Not sure why the -00 is not showing up at the same time as the others...

If you haven't already, you might want to reset/clear the codes and take another reading.

Possible causes are listed as:
* Faulty spark plug or wire
* Faulty coil (pack)
* Faulty oxygen sensor(s)
* Faulty fuel injector
* Burned exhaust valve
* Faulty catalytic converter(s)
* Running out of fuel
* Poor compression
* Defective computer

I'd think if timing was the issue that you'd have a misfire code for all/most cylinders...

saturated_fat

It's poor compression on cylinder #5...local shop is taking a look at it now.