Bellanova

Hello Sport Hybrid Owners,

Long-time follower, first time poster. Proud owner of a '16 Sport Hybrid Adv (guess which color) since Sept '15, and I have enjoyed reading all of your posts and comments. I couldn't agree more on the general consensus of this car is underrated and truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I have, however, found an annoying chink in the armor, and it has to do with a bad smell coming from the HVAC while the A/C compressor is turned OFF. I'll be visiting the dealer next week to address the problem for the 3rd time... first was a legitimate change of cabin filters along with a "stripper spray" treatment. The second involved a half day treatment that is used to eliminate the smell from smokers -- effective, but the smell has returned after a few weeks. Now they want to perform an additional treatment, similar to above, but with a "green" bactericidal flush of the HVAC. Suffice to say that I'm skeptical...

I've read a few of your posts regarding the matter, and I was wondering if any definitive solution has been effective without disassembling the entire dashboard. All suggestions are welcome!

Thanks, and enjoy these cars!

TampaRLX-SH

A belated Congrats of the SH. And welcome to posting!

In my experience, this is usually a moisture / mold issue in the vent ducts. I will not address the remedies (plenty on the forums), or that there is an issue in your vents. Instead, I believe the source is the vents being opened or closed. This may be a matter on how you use the climate control and weather in your location. I do not use the AUTO system as being a Florida resident, full AC is usually needed (set MAX and recirculating). I have had no issues with smells, short or long term. Some say using the fresh air (vents open) setting on the vents prevents the issue. Some say using recirculating (vents closed) prevents the issue. I think your climate may dictate. Being very humid here, keeping the system on recirculating may be keeping out ambient humidity. In a drier climate, you may be trapping moisture in the vents by keeping them closed. The only time I open the vents is when the defogging setting dictates so. Even with vents closed, fresh air does enter the car and if you are not a smoker, should not be an issue.

If you know what settings you tend to use, try the opposite. If you typically have the vents on fresh air, try recirculating and vice versa. If you are using AUTO, try manual. That may clear your issue.

rlerman

I've found best way to prevent ac smell issues is to turn the ac off a few miles before you get to where you are going and allow the outside air setting to dry things out. If you stop the ac when you park, there is moisture in the system that eventually will cause mildew issues.

this may or may not be your issue, but it's good practice.

getakey

Move to California

Limelight

Sorry to hear you apparently have the exact same problem that my car experienced - and continues to experience despite countless attempts on my part to correct the issue with my dealer.

I purchased my car in the spring (second owner, low mileage mint condition), when the weather was cool so I didn't notice any smells. Once summer hit (I'm located in the Toronto area), the smell became apparent. I described it as a gym bag/dirty socks smell.

I brought it to the dealer and they initially replaced the cabin and engine filters and did a system clean. The smell disappeared for a few weeks and then returned. Like you, the smell only appears when the AC unit is turned OFF.

I brought it back and again, they replaced the cabin filter and did another system clean - with the same result - the smell returned.

The next time I brought it back they told me that they would be replacing the HVAC unit - which I later found out involved completely disassembling the entire interior of my car. The car was literally in buckets on the shop floor.

After this massive warranty repair, the smell still was present. The Service Manager acknowledged the smell but said there was nothing else he could do for me. He said that in his career he had never had this much effort and warranty cost to attempt to rectify the problem. He said that typically the cleaning treatment works on other vehicles with a similar problem, but it didn't with the RLX. He said he was in constant contact with the "Tech Line" and they had no other solutions to offer. I was told last month that the only thing left was for me to call Acura Client Relations and request that a Field Rep come to inspect the car with me. When I called Acura, they told me that a client can not request a Field Rep - it must come from the dealer.... In any event, the Service Manager told me he requested the Field Rep and the request was denied. He said Acura's position was that they had done everything they can do and there is no other work that can be done. This all despite the fact that the Service Manager still acknowledges that the smell is present. The Service Manager said the smell is subjective - yes he smells it but it wouldn't really bother him. I personally think it's disgusting.

In terms of next steps, the Service Manager told me that (1) I shouldn't use the Auto feature (nice, don't use a feature the car comes standard with) (2) I should turn off the AC a few minutes before arriving at my destination and (3) always have the air mode on fresh not recirc. He then said I could always write a letter to the President of Acura Canada to complain and see where that takes me - which I haven't done. As much as I loved my 2012 EL and 2012 TL, I have to say this experience has really tainted me on Acura and I can't envision that I will be staying with the brand. I have grown through the brand - starting with their entry level car and ending up with the top of the line model. We have also owned 2 Odysseys, a Civic and an Accord as well. I have clearly shown my loyalty and in return, Honda has left me stranded.

So, I say this hoping your problem is addressed better than mine, but good luck as I don't suspect you are going to get anywhere. My last comment to the Service Manager was if he acknowledged that the smell existed the first time I brought it in, and acknowledges that it still exists today, then why the heck did Acura approve and pay for all the warranty work in the first place? And if I own a vehicle under warranty with a problem that can't be fixed, then what is the purpose of warranty in the first place?? Am I to be satisfied that they tried their best but now I'm left with a car that is embarrassing to have guests in on a hot day because it will stink when the system launches until the AC is put on and cools it down? I guess the good news is that summer is coming to an end, so the smell with dissipate until next spring when the weather warms up.

I look forward to hearing the outcome of your visits to see if your dealer is better at trying to fix this than mine. I have attached a link below to highlight my personal horror story. As an FYI, I have a 2014 P-AWS Elite model. Keep me posted.

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-vents-935449/

George Knighton

I cannot imagine why anybody would have to go through this much trouble because the car smells funny.

I cannot say that you should do what we would do in the United States, because I don't know what Canadian law is on the matter.

But here in the USA, it sounds like you'd have grounds to stop paying for the car if it is financed or leased from Acura Financial Services, and/or have the right to a new car.

I believe that a problem we face is that American Honda hit a high water mark with quality, design and workmanship with the 4G TL.

I've said this in here before, but I believe my 2010 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD is the highest quality and best built Honda that I have ever owned...and it's unfortunate that it was downhill from there.

Still like my car, still driving it, still getting 32 mpg even though I'm definitely not a slow driver....

But there are just too many odd complaints. Way too many

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I have a little foul smell after the car has been sitting in the sun from time to time (not very often as it is garage kept most of the time), however I think it has to do with the duration one uses the car (short trips as opposed to long ones), and the relative humidity one is dealing with on a regular basis. My minor AC smell goes away after a few minutes of use. Just a thought.

Either way it should not be an issue in theory, but if we are being fair, when is the last time you rented a car somewhere and did not have a stinky AC? I think it is an issue for most brands and models from my experience.

neuronbob

1. Welcome to AZ, Bellanova!

2. I have had the same issue, though not as severely as others. Whatever you do, don't let them take your whole dash apart as happened with Limelight. I recall his thread on it. The following thread outlines what I do:

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-klima-932563/

In short, I replace the cabin filter every six months and I use Wurth cleaner every six months or as needed. I also turn off the AC about five minutes before I arrive home, and make sure it's off when I park the car. So far, one treatment with the cleaner was all I needed to get rid of the smell, the smell has come back only rarely, and when it does, I use the AC cleaner again. It's more maintenance than I'm used to, but it works well for me.

Limelight

Under the circumstances described above, I wouldn't have issue with replacing the cabin filter and performing a system cleanse periodically if it provided any lasting results. However in my case, I only got relief measured in days, not months - and it's the very definition of insanity to try the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome.

In my case, the dealer has attempted several cleanings and completed tore apart my car; replaced the HVAC unit, and the smell still remains. The fact that the dealer did all this work under warranty was an acknowledgement of the problem. I'm left completely puzzled that they can now say there is nothing more they can do and walk away - when it's still under warranty. I have since escalated the issue in writing at head office and will await a reply.

Fabvsix

First off Honda/Acura AC's systems are prone to this.....They know and ole timers know this. Common cause: Short drives during the hot summers. It is like leaving a glass of ice and water....condensation builds up on the outside of the glass.....this is the same thing happening with your AC system by short drives to the store or church etc....don't buy the dealership wanting to remove your dash board....OMG are you kidding? Just buy 6 cans of Wurth AC conditioner (you will need this many)....follow the instructions on the can....Changing the AC allergen filters has nothing to do with the smell of mold and bacteria...its caused by condensation in your AC system. The best rule is to turn OFF your AC system a mile from your stopping point. No guarantee however.....Wurth KILLS all the bacteria and Mold in your system. Avoid the Pep shop boys "nice smelling junk" sprayed in the the AC dash board vents-not doing any good...Waste of money. I do this about every 6 months with each of my Acura's..... Wurth leaves a wonderful fresh LEMON smell for several days.... Good luck and hope this was helpful....

TampaRLX-SH

I am very sorry to hear this. I too, would have my brand loyalty shattered. I find it odd that I live in a sub tropical area with very high humidity and year round AC use but have not experienced this.

I do not know the laws of Canada, but is there an equivalent to the USA 'Lemon Law'? If an acknowledged defect cannot be repaired in so many attempts while under warranty, there is a process where a mediator is assigned to manage the case between the consumer and manufacturer. Proceedings begin to resolve the matter. If it cannot be resolved, proceedings for the manufacturer to buy back the car are initiated.

Mold can be damaging to one's health and not just a stinky smell. Further the car has cabin filtration system designed, and what worth is that if your car has a mold infestation in the HVAC?

Fabvsix

And I am in NorCal Dry climate and it happens more so with my 2004 Acura RL....not so much with my 2007 Acura MDX.....and yes the AC filters were always "dirty" when checked in clean California!!!!!

pgeorg

Limelight, i am very sorry to hear this:-(. When i bought my first SH with all the problems, it took a few months, but with me being persistent and with my dealers help Acura did the right thing and swapped the car. If they hadn't, i don't think i would have bought another Acura for a long long time..... It is very important to make your dealer fight for you, Acura listens to them much more that they listen to us! I hope they do the right thing by you also.

neuronbob

I've owned five Acuras and seven Hondas, and never had a smell from the AC before the RLX. I wonder whether it's a particular issue with the way the RLX's AC operates?

getakey

what is surprising to me is how things like this can go backwards. Years and years under the belt and now the problem appears. Its not like there is some innovation in the AC or the venting that they introduced.
I think they over engineered the auto temp. Said the same thing in my RL. It factors in direction travelling versus sun, outside temp, etc. and I have to constantly adjust the temp. I've had less "smart" cars where I never touched the auto temp setting for years.

George Knighton

I don't know, but from the poster's description, I'd be appalled. His description sounds just awful.

The response that it's supposed to be more or less common knowledge that you're supposed to shut off the AC a couple of miles from your destination? Come on, now.

It's 2016 AD, with 2017 models rolling out. We should not have to think about things like that.

As you said, I've owned Hondas since 1989, and I've never had an issue like this, would never expect an issue like this, and I'd be very angry if the issue showed up.

I've never smoked, so I can still smell things even at my age, and I would not like what the poster is describing.

Bellanova

Thank you everyone for your input.As of now, I’m waiting for the dealer to contact me to schedule what will be the 3rd visit for this issue.The new disinfectant treatment promises to kill all biological cell membranes -- hopefully not my lungs in the process.Also, despite only a month in use, I’m debating whether to change the cabin filters again as they may have been contaminated in the last month.My driving habits are as predicted:short suburban trips with the setting typically set on AUTO.Chicago summers can be warm and humid, and this summer hasn’t been much of an exception.Winters are cold and dry, but in my first year of ownership, I almost exclusively use the AUTO setting around 77 degrees in the summer and 71 in the winter.It usually adjust well in this setting, and I rarely go full-blast A/C (60 degrees) in the summer or heating (90 degrees) during these seasons. It’s occasional events like these recent summer evenings where I’ll turn the A/C off and cruise with the moonroof tilted and the windows cracked that the smell really permeates in the cabin -- a sweaty, gym sock kind of smell… clearly mildrew.What I cannot understand is that I drive my wife’s TSX Wagon and my CL-S coupe in the same manner regarding HVAC use, and in years of ownership with these cars, I’ve never experienced this kind of issue. I’ve read that the Sport Hybrid, in particular, uses an electric mechanism, as opposed to the engine-driven mechanism in the PAWS version of the RLX, to cool and dehumidify the cabin.Perhaps there is a design oversight here? I sincerely hope that this next visit will be my last regarding this issue.The logic of shutting off the A/C prior to arriving certainly seems logical, and I’ll try this routine if it means maximizing my enjoyment from this car.I hope that I won’t be replacing filters and spraying “stripper spray” every six months! …joking!

neuronbob

I've mentioned at times that the Sport Hybrid was a "skunk works" in terms of tech. I didn't think it would be a literal skunk works! Hope your dealer offers an equitable solution.

Bellanova

Agreed! It seems like such a petty issue, but it's one that grates on your nerves after some time...

While I agree that this car is something of a beta release in terms of drivetrain tech, I sense the old Honda/Acura craftsmanship throughout most details. Perhaps the shortcoming is with their current vendor in supplying some of the "minor" details like interior materials. While much of the switchgear is shared with the TLX, ILX, and SUVs, the fit and function of the RLX's controls are that much better in comparison. Japanese vs American assembly? ...I hope not, but I detect the same differences in my wife's TSX (Japanese-built) vs my American-built CL-S. But the argument certainly doesn't explain the odor issue.

I think that Acura and Honda reached a pinnacle in construction and design during the latter half of the previous decade. One of the reasons I chose the RLX over competitor's offerings was that it retained the terrific double-wishbone chassis for which these cares have been so well known. The choice of materials also seems to have been more top-shelf as opposed to those of late. The positive is that mother Honda seems to recognize these deficiencies and is acting to correct... If anything, the halo effect of a car like the NSX should spill down into the more pedestrian models in terms of craftsmanship and attention to detail -- just as it did in the early 90's. So let's hope!

TampaRLX-SH

I too personally still prefer the Japan build over US. I felt my former RL was the best built, most reliable and most durable vehicle I have ever owned. That said the initial launch of the RLX was sloppy, if not rushed being very past due replacing the RL. Enough so the JDM LEGEND was delayed while Honda acknowledged and address quality issues. The Japanese market would have never tolerated what early RLX owners dealt with - especially being a Honda product, never mind the flagship of the brand. I read several Honda execs took pay cuts over the quality dings and reputation impact. That said, the Sayama plant builds several Honda models aside from the LEGEND / RLX and in varying market configurations. The LEGEND RLX alone comes in PAWS RLX USA, PAWS RLX CA, PAWS RLX CH, PAWS LEGEND KR, SH LEGEND JDM, SH RLX USA, SH RLX CA, SH LEGEND PH, SH LEGEND MY. That is NINE different configurations for the factory to address, and the SH version requires much manual assembly. And the plant is modest, unlike the 'super' plants most modern manufacturers build.

I think the moldy AC issue is not acceptable. I suspect it is due to a design flaw where moisture does not adequately drain or vent off from the ducts. I doubt it is compressor related as that is a pressurized closed system. Perhaps a late design change in the ducts to address fitting of various components was made and not tested for this situation. But since not all RLXs suffer from this, it makes me wonder why it cannot be corrected (from the source). If someone had one of those optic scopes (like those used by plumbers) to investigate the ducts and perhaps locate the location(s) of the mold build up, that would be enlightening.

hondamore

At the very least, Acura should incorporate a treatment with Wurth's or Einszett Klima as part of normal maintenance, ie at every oil change interval.

I bought a couple cans of Einszett for my RL, but I traded it in before I used it, but I am considering doing a preemptive treatment of my RLX before the problem arises. I still have reservations about spraying into the vents (after reading horror stories about people shorting out their ECU doing so), but might just spray the heat exchanger or even up the drain hose? Thoughts on the safest application would be appreciated.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

So if we are "all" going to use this product to deal with the A/C stench, what are the procedures to use it? I assume this is a question for pgeorg with all of his charts and graphs.

neuronbob

Again, covered here: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-klima-932563/

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Sorry, I posted a question before doing research. Thank you for sending me in the right direction! Much appreciated.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

So who ever does this service next, please try to take a before and after picture of what the fan looks like.

rlerman

I wonder if your drain line has a flat spot somewhere so that water is collecting in it enough to cause mildew?

Fabvsix

it is right below the AC Allergen filters.... Can't miss it!

Bellanova

Hello Limelight,

I replied to your message, but I'm not sure if you received since I'm a relatively new member. Please let me know if it wasn't received.

Thanks!

Limelight

Thanks for your private message. I did receive your note, but the system won't let me reply. It says you've exceeded your quota and you need to clear space - something like that.

Perhaps if you PM me your email address, I can send you my reply that way!

Bellanova

So, last week the dealer completed the new disinfecting treatment in a short 45 minutes visit (too easy I'm concerned), but so far, the smell has been eliminated. The cabin filters were also replaced a second time, so I hoping that this will resolve the issue completely. I have begun to adopt the habit of switching the A/C off and ventilating with just fresh air a 1/2 mile or so before arriving home. Will keep posting should anything change.

pgeorg

^^
Thank you for the update, much appreciated!

I think it is wrong for anyone to have to do this (switch off the ac before parking), with any car nowadays :-(.

pcloadletter

Even Tesla has this problem with their giant cabin filter. It's not that air filter where the mildew forms.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...turn-on.29094/

bigred123

I am having the same issue. Going to get the spray done as well, but I am not going to bother with a trip to the dealer for just this. I did have the filter replaced in July so it's not that. I'll have it done when my winter tires get put on.

Limelight

As you may know, I have this problem as well and replacing filters and doing spray treatments haven't fixed it. You will notice that the smell goes away from November to April as the temps get cooler here. The true test of your treatment won't be seen until next spring.

Yesterday my car stunk with the milder temperatures we've had - it was unbearable TBH. My car is going back to the dealer as soon as all the new parts arrive from Japan. For me, it will be the sequel to the 'Open Heart Surgery' thriller I saw last summer. My situation is now being followed by the Field Engineer however after escalating to Honda Canada so I have to put my trust in the process at this point. Good luck with yours!

WheelMcCoy

My TSX Wagon, I am happy to report, does not have stinky A/C. I do not need to turn off my A/C a mile or 2 away from home to let the components air dry.

But this was a common problem for older cars, and the strategy generally does work. I've had this happen on:
- a friend's 1986 Honda Prelude
- 1987 Acura Integra
- 1991 Honda Accord
- 2010 Mazda Mazda3.

You are all correct that this shouldn't happen on a modern premium car. Acura did something right on the TSX Wagon, but whatever it was, seems to have been lost.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

It would be cool if that feature could be programmed into the navigation so as you were approaching a location, it would do it automatically. Another thought is that a drying fan could be added or the main fan could continue to run even if the car was turned off once we ended our journey. Sort of a self drying procedure. Sounds like a software upgrade is all that is needed if the fan were just to run longer at the end. What do you all think?

fsmith

The fan could be programmed to run for two minutes after the car is turned off if the A/C has been running up until that time. Better yet, an inexpensive moisture sensor could control whther the fan runs after the car is turned off. If they can program the complex drive train in the SH-AWD, they can solve this problem! (I don't know how that emoji relates to my point, but it's cute.)

TampaRLX-SH

Although I agree this should not be an issue on a modern car, I wonder if it is a geographic issue? Some report the issue, some do not. I am of the latter. My vents have been closed (A/C on Max) since May. Today was the first day the humidity dropped below max sweat. Although I had the A/C on, I opened the fresh air flow vents and awaited the stink. Nothing.

Could it be a mold spore that is more prevalent in certain areas? Heaven knows we have every kink of spore, pollen and respiratory enemy in the tropics / sub tropics. Or perhaps it is just hot enough here that any condensation evaporates before anything can grow in the ducts? But I have not once experienced this stink.

WheelMcCoy

I'm sure geography is part of it. But I've been in the same location for all my cars -- Northeast. The only ones that didn't have an A/C smell is the 2012 TSX Wagon and the 1997 Honda Odyssey. Go figure.

Fabvsix

I am located in Northern California "DRY" country and it happens with my 04 RL and i drive it seldom.....Its those "short" drives to the store that creates condensation in your AC system which leads to mold and bacteria which is what you are smelling upon start up and AC turned on.....Turn your AC "off" a mile before returning home to minimize this effect....I don't have this smell in my MDX or RDX however.....