GoHawks

We must have crossed posted and I missed this.

I agree with everything you said. You can't deny the performance aspect of BMWs if you have driven them. I will use our X5 as an example, that is a damn fun car to drive. We needed a replacement for our 2004 Toyota Landcruiser. The X5 was never on our radar and I thought we would end up with an MDX. My wife didn't like the interior of the MDX and to be honest she liked the X5 because of the particular color combination and features and looks of the particular X5 we bought. The performance aspect of it was the bonus. I have to say that it is a damn fun vehicle to drive which is especially notable that it is an SUV (or Sports Activity Vehicle as BMW calls it). It is more gratifying than many sports sedans I have driven.

Now is it more expensive than an MDX? Yep. Is it going to be as reliable as an MDX? Probably not. Is it going to be more expensive to maintain than an MDX? Most likely once the free maintenance expires at 50K miles and my warranty expires at 100K miles (I bought it as a CPO), but so far so good.

Is it more fun to drive than an MDX? You betcha!

neuronbob

You are right and I agree on both points.

dwboston

I agree. These threads are turning into an echo chamber. The same few people reiterating the same points and their disappointment over the RLX repeatedly.

I've seen the RLX and had the chance to test out all the electronics. I didn't want to drive it b/c I need an AWD car and P-AWS doesn't matter to me. It's a very nice car with great technology and seems like it could be a good replacement for my 06 RL, once AWD is available. Apparently it's not for everyone....and they're going to let us know that ad nauseum.

noobie

I think most of these "people" genuinely what Acura and the RLX to be successful. Lets face it, the last couple generations have been pretty lack luster. Acura is one of my favorite car brands. What's disappointing is that Acura seemingly continues to ignore what others are delivering to this segment while experiencing more success than Acura. With this latest version, if it is priced at $70K, there is no value component anymore. Personally, I hope they sell a ton and I'd like to see the hybrid SHAWD in the MDX soon. If they do that, I will probably buy another one.

For all of you that say, RWD, HP, brand or whatever else doesn't matter and the others that say they do, how about a little survey?

I don't mean to be offend anyone with these questions, but here goes:

1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

2. Those that say all the stuff doesn't matter, brand, HP, perception, or whatever, and love the new RLX how many have bought (not just driven) a flagship luxury sports sedan before?

It would be interesting to see if the RLX inspires more first time adopters in the segment (those in question 2) or crossover buyers of existing luxury sedans ( those in question 1)

GoHawks

Agree with everything you said!

Colin

Yes, it seems like threads have a 'one page limit' of constructive conversation before the echos begin. LOL.

IMO, part of the difficulty is that there is a tendency to distill opinions into 'black and white' statements where there is only grey. For example, someone might say "RLX sucks, Acura has lost it" How do you discuss such a declarative statement? It's only arguing from there on.

Definition of terms is another difficulty. For example, take discussions of 'enthusiasts' Is an 'enthusiast' someone who:

1. loves cars, reads all the mags, but only buys a Civic
2. adds springs, sway bars, body kits and slams it within in inch of it's life but never races
3. keeps the car totally stock so he can autocross in the "A Stock" SCCA class so he'll never 'mod' it
4. buys a high end M3 but gets an automatic and doesn't know FWD from RWD
5. buys any manual because, that's what drivers, DRIVE even if it's not a high end sports car but it's the best manual he can afford

A similar list could be made for other points here: Flagship, Value, Reliability. The are all variables that rely on the owners POV for context. My ILX may be noisy to some, but it's quiet compared to our old S2000.

neuronbob

At the risk of sounding like an echo (apologies to dwboston ), you are right on point, noobie.

hondamore

Well said Colin/DWboston/Thrillington!!

Automotive forums are a bit like sports forums - eg Yankees vs Red Sox, Packers vs Bears, Heat vs Lakers, Leafs vs Canadiens. There is no shortage of absolute opinions on subjects with no right answer and no shortage of conflict. Fortunately, in amongst all of the Coke vs Pepsi style nattering is some really good information for someone like me who is actually interested in researching/purchasing an Acura vehicle.

noobie

Anyone care to guess what April sales of the RLX will be? How about a friendly little pool to see who comes closet?

I'll guess 1,276 (I'll go out on a limb and be positive!)

KeithL

Way too high IMO I am going to guess around 800 max maybe less. I would be impressed if they break 1,000. I don't see a lot in inventory and what I see is usually still sitting on the dealer lots. Problem is we don't how good supply is yet.

db22

Sale numbers will be meaningless until the dealers have the supply to meet the demand. If a dealer has 2 and neither is Advance then inventory would be the culprit of a reduction in sales because, I for one, would only buy Advance. If a dealer has invested a million dollars in high end inventory then he will want a return fairly soon and will be a lot more eager to "make a deal". My dealer did say that he has a lot more coming in the near future, in fact, he showed me the colors but none of them were pommegranite which would be my choice. Dealers with only 2 cars will let you drive one and buy the other one at a markup until they have more to sell.

TSX69

My local dealerships all have 5 now instead of 2 (most of them tech packages but 1 with just navi) & Cars.com now reports 700 nationwide. No black/black advance in my area tho (the 1 combo I would consider) but they do have a Gilded Pewter Metallic that I am curious to see (not buy).

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

^^my dealer now has 10 in stock. 4 navi, 3 tech, 1 krell, 2 advance

TheBigPill

I disagree. The lower end Audi's aren't anything special but the higher ends definitely are and IMO are top of the class.

I sat in many cars at the local car show and to me the best interiors by far were the Audi A7 and the Porsche Panamera.

We checked out the new MDX (h my wife currently drives one) and we're disappointed by the cost cutting so brazenly evident in the materials.

And you're right about BMW interiors they've never been extremely plush but they've always been function over form and I kinda like that (I must admit I love the 1M coupe's interior).

TheBigPill

Personally, the RLX is not my cup of tea. I'd gladly pay more for an A7 than the 60k that a decked out non AWD RLX would cost.

IMO, Acura can set this straight by either hiring a new design head or by letting design do their job without interference form the suits and bean counters.

TheBigPill

Being that this is an Acura forum I'd say most here would like to see the company do well.

Perhaps Acura should listen to the criticisms. It might help them in the future.

I realize all this is moot until we see what type of sales the car will garner but my money is on the under.

Colin

Or perhaps not. Listening too much could result in bland cars designed by "committee" where the entire internet is the board room. One might argue that the current proliferation of trims within models hasn't increased sales nor resulted in any 'happier' customers than before when you had to take your '04 TL either with or without Navi as the only choices or your '05 RL in only one trim.

TheBigPill

That's definitely a possibility but the present cars IMO are pretty bland. I'm not looking for Acura to crowd source a car but to take valid criticism to heart.

I don't know the dynamics within Acura corporate but I'd be surprised that the current cars where the design studios best effort and perplexed if the designers themselves considered this to be their best work. To me, and again this is just my opinion, the cars look like a room full of executives all had a say on what the car should be or they just said take an Accord and make it worth 60k.

Certain companies have built up goodwill. With all the bumbling, hand wringing and missteps that were endemic to Blackberry for the past few years customers still returned when they finally released a competitive product.

IMO Acura is a design away from that moment. They have credibility. They're built well. They have good tech. Put a design out there that stoles peoples passions and the customers will come.

weather

^^ I agree....a good design with passion and excitement will bring back many buyers to the brand as they know they are GREAT cars, just uninspiring at the moment. I can live without some tech provide I get excited about the car....As much as I don't like the interior design of the Audi S3 (2015 model), their exterior design almost elicit a physical reaction *lol*

hondamore

I agree, Acura needs to take a leap of faith and change their exterior design direction (their interiors are top notch). A good start might be losing the grill shield/power plenum. Yes, the shield makes every Acura instantly recognizable as being an Acura, but not in a good way. I equate it to a peanut butter producer putting broccoli in their peanut butter to differentiate themselves from the other peanut butters.

weather

That made me laugh!! So true!!

Colin

IMO, in the current iteration the grill is fine. Heck, it's been already been 5-6 years with this motif. Like 20% of the brands existence on the market. For as long as I've been with the brand, people have complained about the styling. (Again) IMO, listening to this criticism was what led to the '09 TL.

Acura, go back to making (somewhat) boring cars, ignore the comments. Price and equip them right and we'll be selling 200K easy.

GoHawks

You're absolutely right. Acura/Honda has great engineers, but what they need is some guys in the studio who have passion for beautiful cars. Hire some Italian designers, heck even some domestic designers. Look at the new Lincoln MKZ, it may not be comparable to Acura from an engineering perspective, but I think that car is beautiful and it makes a statement. The Audis are beautiful. Even GM let the designers at Cadillac let them design something like the CTS coupe.

Again, I am not saying that those are better cars, they are just more daring from a design perspective. Hire some true car guys to work with the gear head engineers.

GoHawks

Because it looked like they had a bunch of tech heads design a car that reminded them of the Transformer TV shows they watched growing up. It was a technical versus a passionate design statement.

jhr3uva90

I like the RLX's grill much better than the 2009-2011 TL's. And I actually like the RLX's grill better than what Lexus is cooking up nowadays.

GoHawks

The toned down shield is better.

I might be in the minority, but I like the Lexus spindle (a.k.a. the Predator) grille.

jshaw

^^ Or in Germany, the "Diablo Grill."

KeithL

I like it too.

noobie

Yes I would agree that the RLX is more geared for the GS, E, 5, A6 buyers. However, the price of a loaded SHAWD version was speculated being around the $70K, which is well above a very well appointed versions of the benchmark class. Anyone willing to spend $70K is going to look hard at Lexus LS460 and A7s and A8s. S550s and & series may be a bit of a stretch. An AWD Jag XJ can also be had for mid 70s.

It was really more about what people want in a luxury sport sedan. There are many in this thread that say RWD/AWD, V8 power and sexy styling don't matter in a flagship. PAWS is just as good, V6, and so on and so on. I say it does and from personal experience, I would not trade my flagship sedan for the RLX, even if they gave me $20K back or whatever. Acura did not build anything that would stir the emotions of this crowd.

That means they need to to target move up TL drivers or GS, E, A6 cross shoppers, and not only have they not given these buyers RWD/AWD, passion inducing style, but now have removed value with the ridiculous high relative price.

noobie

I like it too, but I find some colors in the f Sport a bit too much.

jhr3uva90

What if the RLX hybrid costs the same as the Lexus GS hybrid?

noobie

It will sell as many of them as Lexus does

KeithL

^^^
Yup I rarely see one on a dealer inventory same with M35h, I think they are a bit of a gimmick. I think M35h was way to vet the tech and now they will offer it on the Q50 Hybrid, but still think few will take it.

jhr3uva90

I don't think hybrid is a gimmick if you want more horsepower out of the Lexus GS or Acura RLX.

KeithL

True, but I think the take rate on those either way is low. Most people the 330 of an M or the 310 of a RLX is more than enough. The thing that is nice about hybrids is the immediate torque that is available.

TSX69

The sales of the GS & M hybrid are ~50/month (that is ~3% of GS sales last month) if that tells you anything about the market. At ~$70k I doubt that the RLX will sell many.

Much like the Power Plenum, I like the spindle grill on some vehicles, like the GS, on the others ... not so much.

2 of my local dealers still have all 5 RLXs but 1 (which is in the more affluent town) has sold 3 of their 5 in the past week or so.

Sonor Kid 2

I really like the new IS line up also, beautiful car IMHO.
Here's a link to the new 2014 model, Acura has a lot of catching up to do.
This is what I was hoping for with the new RLX, a sporty design that inspires some passion.
Never a big Lexus fan until now...

GoHawks

I too think the IS is pretty sharp.

getakey

I've been monitoring inventory at a couple dealers in my area. Closest Dealer had the 2 demos and then got 2 more a few days after the go on sale date (March 15)
In a few days inventory was back down to 2.
Another Dealer that seemed to have the most right after 3/15 had 7. Few days and down to 5.

Both Dealers are still on that inventory count of 2 and 5 a month later.

There are more than 10 dealers in my area, but I've only closely monitored these 2. That said, random checks at the others don't show dwindling inventory and it does not seem that they got more arrivals yet

Colin

We got our 2nd batch. 4 base and one base + Navi. Not expecting lots of movement on these right now. Early adopters tend to like the higher trim levels.